Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[daniel]

…. If the goal was to drive Tesla enthusiasts to hate crypto then things are going well!

I already hated crypto. An energy-wasting pyramid scheme whose only utility is to serve as a vehicle for speculation and as a way for ransomeware criminals to collect extortion money untraceably. And to a lesser extent, tax evasion and black-market transactions generally, from drugs to sex slaves.

What Tesla's purchase of BTC did for me was to lower Elon in my estimation. Speculating with stockholders' money in a pyramid scheme that empowers criminals was a rotten thing to do.

 

[StealthP3D]

Yes. Cash does not produce anything. The usefulness of cash is that you can spend it. You need enough cash for operations and investment. Tesla should be using its cash to invest in its mission of electric transportation and renewable energy. If it has more cash than it needs for expenditures and can usefully invest, then pay dividends or buy back stock. Don't leave it sitting in cash, and certainly don't speculate in volatile commodities. Nobody can know whether BTC will go up or down. Anybody who believes it will go up is free to speculate in it. But Tesla has a specific mission, and that mission is not speculation.

The limited amount of cash needed for operations and investment does not need to be diversified out of dollars except if the investment and operations are going to be happening in another country, in which case convert the needed money to the currency of that country.

And if Tesla does need to put some money in a "store of wealth" put it in something stable. Don't speculate with it. Vanguard has several bond funds that pay reasonable dividends and are reasonably stable. That would be a far better choice than BTC. Elon can speculate with his own money. Don't speculate with shareholders' money.

And yes, Tesla started as a speculative company in that like any start-up there was no certainty it would succeed. I put some money into it because I believe in electric transportation and I wanted to support that mission. I was willing to take a risk on electric cars. I was not putting my money into a hedge fund that would seek out opportunities for non-productive speculation. I want Tesla to sell all its BTC and use that money to build electric cars and trucks and batteries and solar panels.

Would you be against Tesla using it's cash to buy commodities futures to hedge against materials increases?

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

All BTC discussion is to be continued here: Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency and Blockchain Discussion Thread.

Emphasis on ALL.

 

[Singuy]

Would you be against Tesla using it's cash to buy commodities futures to hedge against materials increases?

Just wondering StealthP3D. Can you please list some things Tesla/Elon has done you are not a fan of? Your disagree rate from anyone criticizing Tesla is about 100%.

 

[dww12]

Wasn’t the original TSLA boogieman the 10yr? What if the crash in “that thing” is a forward indicator for the 10yr? Wasn’t “that thing” an inflation hedge and trending with the 10yr? If “that thing” and the 10yr rolls over should’t that be a positive for TSLA.

If you think this post is about “that thing”vote down and I will delete.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1396598982865039369

 

[Krugerrand]

Perhaps I am an idiot but E’s explanation made no sense. If an asset is counter to the mission of a future of renewable energy then get out of it. If thy eye offend thee…… and all.

I think many investors have effectively written off $1.5b as a loss. I have. But the risk of ever expanding confusion and endless questions that reveal the continual digging of a hole is wearing on enthusiasm. Please return focus to an optimistic future and away from this smokestack of greed and cynicism IMO.

There is so much enthusiasm for Tesla but even my time as a Tesla owner has to be consumed in queries…. If the goal was to drive Tesla enthusiasts to hate crypto then things are going well!

And when Tesla’s action pushes crypto currency to become sustained via reusable energy -

 

[Singuy]

Wasn’t the original TSLA boogieman the 10yr? What if the crash in “that thing” is a forward indicator for the 10yr? Wasn’t “that thing” an inflation hedge and trending with the 10yr? If “that thing” and the 10yr rolls over should’t that be a positive for TSLA.

If you think this post is about “that thing”vote down and I will delete.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1396598982865039369

I think technical traders are looking at June's fed meeting to jump start the next bull run for qqq. Before then they are seeing weakness.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Just wondering StealthP3D. Can you please list some things Tesla/Elon has done you are not a fan of? Your disagree rate from anyone criticizing Tesla is about 100%.

Now the test is getting rather difficult

 

[heltok]

Could it be that Tesla are using the Austin castings to ship to Freemont/Shanghai to build a few 4680 Model Y to test and crashtest them? So they can more easily ramp Austin but also to prepare Freemont and Shanghai for their switch in year?

 

[StealthP3D]

Just wondering StealthP3D. Can you please list some things Tesla/Elon has done you are not a fan of? Your disagree rate from anyone criticizing Tesla is about 100%.

No, actually it's closer to 10%.

But I do get a kick out of people acting like they could run Elon's companies better than the man who successfully runs them. Especially since Elon knows at least 10 times more about the specific challenges and threats his companies face in the space they operate than anyone on this board. But from listening to the armchair experts here, they are the real experts, they are just too busy/important to actually start their own EV company and show him how they would run the company. They prefer to yell their helpful management tips from the sidelines. They would beat him at his own game by advertising the products more, by avoiding controversial statements, by treating the SEC nicely, by selling skateboards to legacy OEM's, by not talking up FSD until it's completed, by coming out with a more compact car sooner, by not saying the stock costs too much, etc. etc, etc.

Yeah, some people love to be the backseat expert on other peoples creations. It's hilarious.

 

[TradingInvest]

Just wondering StealthP3D. Can you please list some things Tesla/Elon has done you are not a fan of? Your disagree rate from anyone criticizing Tesla is about 100%.

I didn't see the posts which StealthP3D disagreed with, so I don't have an opinion on those posts. In my view StealthP3D is highly experienced. His views are usually very reasonable and insightful. Don't feel offended if someone disagree with the posts you like.
Everyone can freely express their views (including disagrees) is a big plus for information exchange.

 

[Carl Raymond]

I'm out.

I hope not cliffski. I for one value your big picture insights.

 

[Singuy]

No, actually it's closer to 10%.

But I do get a kick out of people acting like they could run Elon's companies better than the man who successfully runs them. Especially since Elon knows at least 10 times more about the specific challenges and threats his companies face in the space they operate than anyone on this board. But from listening to the armchair experts here, they are the real experts, they are just too busy/important to actually start their own EV company and show him how they would run the company. They prefer to yell their helpful management tips from the sidelines. They would beat him at his own game by advertising the products more, by avoiding controversial statements, by treating the SEC nicely, by selling skateboards to legacy OEM's, by not talking up FSD until it's completed, by coming out with a more compact car sooner, by not saying the stock costs too much, etc. etc, etc.

Yeah, some people love to be the backseat expert on other peoples creations. It's hilarious.

Okay sure but I am still curious with what you are not happy about tesla. You listed pretty much most of the criticism people have here..and obviously from your post you disagree with them. So enlighten us what the other 90% of stuff you agree with others when criticizing Tesla.

 

[RobStark]

I get a kick out of people thinking an internet forum centered on a specific company should be like a Joseph Stalin chaired Soviet Politburo Committee meeting.

 

[Xepa777]

I'm pretty jealous that F-150s can serve as backup battery generators for homes and, despite hearing the logic against it in Battery Day, still feel it's a valid option the owners should have for the wide ranging situational utility it can provide.

 

[InDaClub]

I get a kick out of people thinking an internet forum centered on a specific company should be like a Joseph Stalin chaired Soviet Politburo Committee meeting.


View attachment 665463

I get a kick out of people who are WHINY AF.

 

[StealthP3D]

Okay sure but I am still curious with what you are not happy about tesla. You listed pretty much most of the criticism people have here..and obviously from your post you disagree with them. So enlighten us what the other 90% of stuff you agree with others when criticizing Tesla.

As an investor, I don't try to micro-manage the small details of the company. My biggest consideration is "Do I trust managements competence?". If the answer is yes, then I don't second guess them because they are privy to literally hundreds of pertinent details that I don't even have legal or practical access to. I don't know why management bought Bitcoin but I trust they had a reason and it's probably one we can't see. If the answer is no (that I don't trust management to be competent) then I don't invest.

Competent management is the most important criteria before I make an investment. If my opinion of management changes, I dump the stock without hesitation. I have no place in my portfolio for companies run by people I don't trust to do the right thing as well as being better than average in the competence department. That doesn't mean they never make mistakes, all management does.

The fact we know that all management makes mistakes doesn't mean someone on the outside looking in has enough information to know that a recent decision was a mistake. If the management is competent, they had a reason for making the decision they made. And without knowing that reason, it is impossible to judge it as a productive move or a mistake, especially based on such superficial things as whether it immediately helped or hurt the immediate quarter's results.

I play the long game because that's the most profitable way for the individual investor to use the market to their financial advantage. It's also a lot easier than second-guessing every little move and trying to micro-manage a huge corporation that has considerations we can't even see.

 

[StealthP3D]

I'm pretty jealous that F-150s can serve as backup battery generators for homes and, despite hearing the logic against it in Battery Day, still feel it's a valid option the owners should have for the wide ranging situational utility it can provide.

Life's too short to be jealous. I hope you have your F-150 Lightning reservation placed! Different strokes for different folks!

I'm sure it will be an amazing experience, enjoy!

 

[printf42]

Just a reminder of how much Tesla Supercharger makes a difference for life with an EV.

This guy is a gear head with all kinds of cool cars. He has 2.3M subscribers and rarely share any car that doesn’t turn heads.

He started the day trying to show how much EV charging infrastructure had improved over the years.

Unfortunately, he drives a Taycan, the first charging station have 2 out of 4 stalls out of order, he had to wait for a smallish car to fishing charging, and when he finally plugged in, it throws error saying the car detected problem in the middle of charging and only got to 51%, he unplugged and replugged 3 times and still doesn’t work, tried to head to another station and same story, only charges up to 54% then stopped.

He end up showing the viewer how the EV charging infrastructure(for none-Tesla cars) is broken today.

There is not a single mention of Tesla Supercharger in the video, possibly he never drove a Tesla and didn’t know what we all know, that how much different that experience would have been.

 

[johnm6875]

Just a reminder of how much Tesla Supercharger makes a difference for life with an EV.

This guy is a gear head with all kinds of cool cars. He has 2.3M subscribers and rarely share any car that doesn’t turn heads.

He started the day trying to show how much EV charging infrastructure had improved over the years.

Unfortunately, he drives a Taycan, the first charging station have 2 out of 4 stalls out of order, he had to wait for a smallish car to fishing charging, and when he finally plugged in, it throws error saying the car detected problem in the middle of charging and only got to 51%, he unplugged and replugged 3 times and still doesn’t work, tried to head to another station and same story, only charges up to 54% then stopped.

He end up showing the viewer how the EV charging infrastructure(for none-Tesla cars) is broken today.

There is not a single mention of Tesla Supercharger in the video, possibly he never drove a Tesla and didn’t know what we all know, that how much different that experience would have been.

As silly as it sounds, I find planning and executing Supercharger stops to be a significantly enjoyable part of the many cross-country trips I've taken over the past few years. I could never gin up any positive emotional response for gasoline stops. OK, maybe periodic relief. But now, every new far-flung Supercharger opening (and I do check routinely, supercharge.info) evokes as desire for a road trip. What a hugely important part of the product I was not expecting.