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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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If history is any indication, Musk may take up the offer to stage a drag race. He previously accepted a tug-of-war challenge from Ford between its F-150 and Tesla's Cybertruck. But Ford withdrew the invite soon after, saying the challenge was just "tongue in cheek."

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Bullish $TSLA

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It’s amazing what you can do with temporary build permits, huh? At this rate, there will be no need for final permits.

Hmm…I think I might have called months ago that Tesla will be producing cars while still only having temporary permits.

What a strange world.
 

If history is any indication, Musk may take up the offer to stage a drag race. He previously accepted a tug-of-war challenge from Ford between its F-150 and Tesla's Cybertruck. But Ford withdrew the invite soon after, saying the challenge was just "tongue in cheek."

🤣
History probably repeats here too
 

If history is any indication, Musk may take up the offer to stage a drag race. He previously accepted a tug-of-war challenge from Ford between its F-150 and Tesla's Cybertruck. But Ford withdrew the invite soon after, saying the challenge was just "tongue in cheek."

🤣
The Ford is 1 second slower in a quarter mile. Pretty much a given which car is going to win. Somehow modifying an extremely highly modified car to run 9s now will probably need some spaceX boosters.
 
The Ford is 1 second slower in a quarter mile. Pretty much a given which car is going to win.
I tweeted this is WIN - WIN for Ford...they know they're gonna lose but get free advertising...in the miraculous event that they do win...The Ford nuts will say "We knew Tesla was a fraud" and $TSLA SP will tank....When Tesla does win, they will spin it as "of course they won, do you expect a SUV to beat a sedan?"
 
I tweeted this is WIN - WIN for Ford...they know they're gonna lose but get free advertising...in the miraculous event that they do win...The Ford nuts will say "We knew Tesla was a fraud" and $TSLA SP will tank....When Tesla does win, they will spin it as "of course they won, do you expect a SUV to beat a sedan?"
If Musk declines, then it's an automatic forfeit. Looks like Ford is getting that Win Win as they backed Tesla into a corner.

UNLESS!

Musk tweets "the Ford is not a production car and it's not a 9 second car. We will race when it's a 9 second production car, until then it's a waste of time".
 
Unfortunately this is just Elon using puffery. The Tesla supercharger network is the best charging network, period. And outside of Cali, it seems to be matching use pretty well. But Tesla is just not expanding it as fast as new cars are being added. And no, there are reasons why it is not linear, but Cali needs a lot more chargers. There are still some east coast routes that some cars cannot do without more chargers, such as the eastern shore.
 
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Part Deux:


While I believe CT interest is through the roof, I do think that Tesla’s CT reservation numbers are likely skewed. I’ve read multiple times about how many reservations single buyers have. I personally have 4, but will only maybe buy 1. Others are worse offenders. And, while I have never previously been a truck buyer, I am a Tesla buyer…
Yes, it's pretty much certain there is a high percentage (my guess >10% and could be much higher) of people with multiple reservations. But that's almost irrelevant: those currently having no reservations but future buyers are far outnumbering those with multiple reservations.

Eventually it will be decided by how good the (or any) product will be. A big difference of all current Tesla cars and Cybertruck is that it is just outrageous. For casual observer (hint: majority), any of S3XY on the street is just another car in the ocean of literally hundreds of auto models. But nobody can unsee a Cybertruck. As of now, to 99.9% of the people, including EV/Tesla enthusiasts, Cybertruck is still a concept, but when the real thing is in front of you, the visual is guaranteed to be overpowering. How much money is spent to attract eyeballs nowadays, BTW?

And yet again, the combo of its specs and prices is even more outrageous. I'd expect Tesla to raise Cyber's prices a lot and still beat the other guys like a drum.
 
From my brokerage's newsfeed:

Tesla Model S Plaid Shows Charging Speeds Of Nearly 1K Miles Per Hour

3:33 pm ET June 16, 2021 (Benzinga)

One of Tesla Inc's (NASDAQ: TSLA) greatest advantages is the Supercharger network. Tesla has over 25,000 Superchargers worldwide that enable extremely high charging speeds exclusively for Tesla electric vehicles.

This enables long-distance travel for EV owners comparable to a gasoline powered car.

Tesla's newest vehicle, the Plaid Model S, is leaving many impressed with its fast speed and quiet interior. But it seems it has also improved charging speed over its predecessor.

One of the few early refresh Model S owners posted a picture of their Model S charging at one of Tesla's Supercharger stations. The screen shows the car at 34% battery charge, and the current rate of increase is 998 miles of range being added per hour. The charging rate is also at 246kW vs Tesla's max speed of 250kW, a rate that puts Tesla among the fastest charging EVs available.


As an electric vehicle charges and its battery becomes more full, the charging rate will slow. So although the charge rate shown in the picture will not be maintained over the entire duration of the charge, 246kW at a 34% state of charge is a big improvement in charging speed.

Tesla's older 90D Model S would have a charging rate closer to 110kW at around 34%, less than half the speed of the refreshed S.
You don't need a Plaid for that. Model 3 has had that capability for over 2 years, since March 2019...


On Tesla’s most efficient vehicles, like the Long Range Model 3, the company says that the new Supercharger V3 can add up to 75 miles of range in 5 minutes and charge at a peak rage of 1,000 miles per hour of range.
 
@avoigt reporting that GF Berlin is planned to start in early November!
Details via patreon link which I don´t have.

(This still depends on final permit though for which a second public hearing will likely be necessary after Tesla changed the permit application, for example to include cell production and lower amount of water needed, so I would read this date as NET/if everything goes according to plan)

 
but you can charge insane high rates for people having really slow charging cars to fend them off.
This is the first time I've considered why charging speed should actually matter to anyone. Not just from peer pressure in tying up the charger, but everyone taking their 5-20 min pit stops with a Tesla, while the slow one costs 2x because of the time factor. This is gonna matter I think.
 
We need to create a new term, something to describe the progress of an auto manufacturer transitioning to EV that has surpassed the execution point of Tesla Motors just before Elon Musk took over.

Essentially proven technology design and very limited and un-scaled production. I feel like entities like Ford are just now reaching that point.....and it should have a name.

VW and the likes of Porsche have somewhat passed this point, but I want to know what to celebrate once Ford actually produces a few dozen F-150 EVs.

Oh, that's an easy one ...

TESLA EVENT HORIZON

Once a company crosses the TEH its growth begins to increase exponentially.
(should I put an "essentially" in there somewhere?)
 
We kind of do though. The Plaid+ was going to have a MUCH greater range than either the standard S or the Plaid. That large of a jump in range could only really be attributed to one thing: the 4680 cells, which we know will have a much greater energy density.

The current ranges of the S and the Plaid are only slightly better than the Raven versions were. That can only be due to one of two things:

1. Either they are still using the 18650 cells

or

2. They are using the 4680's and sandbagging the ranges in software in order to "unlock" it later.

I feel #1 is far more likely than #2, for a variety of reasons. Time will tell of course!
Much more range doesn't necessarily mean 4680s. It does require a larger pack.
It could even mean a cell bigger thasn 4680 well suited to a sinlge layer 200 kWh pack in the Roadster footprint.

It may be that the Roadster has 4680s, that is still more likely than a new cell size.

My point is assumptions constrain the possibilities, the exact opposite of first principles thinking.

Edit: A link between Plaid+ and the Roadster is a different kind of speculation, it may be the wrong rabbit-hole, but it fits the product timelines.
 
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I'm in the "more natural" interpretation of the present share move down to the 600s. I don't have intense technical interpretations to support this. Just my following of the company for nearly 10 years plus seeing a similar run previously and what happened after.

Back in 2013-2014 the shares went on an amazing run, eventually landing at ~$250 (from $30; pre-split!). For the next 5 years the shares were roughly flat, first in a 180/280 range, and then later a 280/380 range.

Somewhere in there - 2017? - Model 3 had been launched and was either late or after 'production hell' and the share price was about $250. I remember somebody commenting at the time that multiple years later, add in two new products including the one that Elon identified as essential to achieving profitability, ramped production even higher on the original product, and the company (by share price) hadn't change in value in 3 years.

My interpretation then and in hindsight - the shares went too far, too fast in 2013/14. And it took another 3ish years for the company value to catch up with its share price valuation. Then once it caught up, it didn't budge for another 2 years (spring being wound) before finally breaking out more recently ($400 to $3000 in pre-split $, with a high of $4500 in Jan/Feb).

I see the current situation as completely analogous and expect a very similar sequence. I don't know if its 6 months or 6 years or something in the middle. The core belief on my part is that the financials and existing execution doesn't (short term) support a significant move upwards.

I don't know what the new trading range will be. I think there's some evidence for 560/620, but its going to need a lot more than a couple of months to figure out what it will be.


I have worked for an engineering company that lots its engineering roots (MHO) and made the transition at least temporarily to financial management. Completely agree that the cultural DNA will keep the engineering culture going for awhile (which could easily be a decade or more); the company is not immune though to losing that engineering culture.


I find that I wear two hats these days. My long term investing hat with the 10+ year investing horizon is expecting pretty much exactly what you've described. Great delivery and production results, great future demand, etc.. My interpretation being that the long term execution is right on track. Great news!

But the short term hat doesn't see any news in the last 3 months, and is not expecting any news in the next 3 months that will move the needle in the short term. There could be a buy the rumor, sell the news type of reaction, but I don't see any new source of buyers that keep buying as the shares go up through 650, 700, 750, .. -- I don't see that.

Effectively the company needs to grow into its current valuation. I don't see a spring being wound (at least not in preparation for another explosive move up). I see an already released spring that is being reset for the next release.


For a big move up in the shares we need a big supply of new buyers that will keep buying as the shares go up. The sources for this supply of new buyers I see are:
- FSD / automated driving progress. Big progress, partly measured by broad distribution of the software to the fleet (and lots of youtube videos showing people being wowed). It needs to be big enough news, with evidence, that new buyers of the stock have line-of-sight to the autonomous business model coming into existence.

My current view on this - we're slipping from previous prognostications about when we'd see this progress. Announcements like them dropping radar from 3/Y and rewrites of the software for new functionality - wonderful for the long term view, but shorter term - I think that the FSD / autonomous functionality is in the middle of a 1 year slip. Thus I expect nothing this year that will move the needle (while hoping to be wrong).

- Financial metrics driven buyers - people that put the financial results / metrics at the center of their investing decisions. For many of these buyers the financial don't yet support an investment.

Improving financials covers a big range of stuff for me. CT, Semi, battery chemistry / form factor / cost to manufacture, quarterly production, evidence that production is approximately 100% sold each quarter, new site builds, etc.. All of this stuff contributes directly to volume, which contributes to revenue, which builds into profits. The big financials evidence we need (MHO):
-- evidence that there is significant leverage. Revenue going up fast, while SG&A goes up slowly. Profit leverage.
-- big absolute and P/E profitability results. Eventually growing so large that, like Apple and their gargantuan quarterly profits, will arrive for Tesla. Somewhere in there the P/E and growth rates will become so large that we won't need a story driven investment hypothesis to find buyers of the shares.
@adiggs, I belive your reasoning to be spot on. My 982nd post is one of only a handful from me that is not bullish on TSLA. Love all things Tesla, however my revised take on TSLA today is that valuation at $600 is still a concern. I need not tell anyone the pros of Tesla and TSLA, as I have been touting these since early 2013. One year ago today, TSLA was $200. Two years ago today TSLA was $45. The run to its current price has been incredible, if not tainted by the overshoot due to S&P inclusion and 5:1 stock split. TSLA today is 10X the value of Ford which sold 4.2M vehicles in 2020. At its January peak of $900, TSLA priced in Model S & X upgrade release in February, Giga Berlin beginning production in July, Semi and Cybertruck production starting Q4 in Austin, Solar becoming profitable, Energy Storage ramping up, and FSD Beta limited roll-out. Clearly there have been delays. My original guesstimate of TSLA hitting its ATH by end of 2021 is now pushed back to end of 2022. One thing is for certain, the climb back to ATH will be anything but a straight line, and there is potential for further downward pressure, exasperated if general Market turns South. 5 Year TSLA bull thesis still intact. Wishing everyone the best here on this forum.