Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[RobStark]

Elon has said Tesla should be a catalyst for moving the world into EVs numerous times. That is why Tesla patents are free for anyone to use in good faith.

But Tesla is suing pure BEV automaker Rivian for stealing trade secrets like which adhesive and fasteners they use. And for stealing Tesla's human resource playbook. Allegedly.

 

[EVMeister]

I hope tomorrow's stock price action is less lame.

Again.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Hi Q - When Tesla ran up in 2020, I paid off all of my debt first (a mortgage and the Model 3 loan) and I’m diversifying towards a 80-20 portfolio strategy (supplemented with real estate and passive index fund investing) after it being 92-8.

Does this sound like a good strategy from an investment portfolio allocation perspective?

No it does not....If you're an active member on TMC, a pre-requisite is to hold at least 90% of your portfolio in $TSLA...some are even 110-120%...

In all seriousness, congrats on being major debt free...do what makes you sleep comfortably at night and not get into arguments with your significant other on weeks like this so far for $TSLA

 

[2daMoon]

If Tesla ever open the Supercharger network to non-Tesla vehicles, then a minimum technical requirement of access would need to include the right and the ability for Tesla to implement an OTA update to the non-Tesla fleet, in such a way that Tesla can ensure trouble-free Supercharger interfacing at all times. That would allow Tesla to keep all the fleet that might access the superchargers in dynamic alignment with whatever evolutions take place on the Supercharger network, with Tesla controlling the situation.

There are other technical requirements I would write in addition to this, but that is a minimum. And of course there would be commercial requirements as well.

I don't expect any other manufacturer would be prepared to agree to that. Right now I don't think any other manufacturer is even capable of agreeing to that so it is a moot point for the time being.

Perhaps some of this historical data could be compiled from use of the Tesla phone app without having to interface with the other OEM software?

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Wait a second...........could it be????



It's not a TESLA!!!!!! but.......explains why $TSLA is down AH as well, because it is 'closely' tied to Chevy Fires.....I am done for the day....

Chevy Bolt EV belonging to Vermont lawmaker who has backed industry catches fire

A Chevrolet electric vehicle owned by Vermont state Rep. Timothy Briglin, who has backed the industry, caught fire while charging in his driveway, police said.

www.cnbc.com

 

[jw934]

But Tesla is suing pure BEV automaker Rivian for stealing trade secrets like which adhesive and fasteners they use. And for stealing Tesla's human resource playbook. Allegedly.

From Tesla 10K:
"We have also adopted a patent policy in which we irrevocably pledged that we will not initiate a lawsuit against any party for infringing our patents through activity relating to electric vehicles or related equipment for so long as such party is acting in good faith. We made this pledge in order to encourage the advancement of a common, rapidly-evolving platform for electric vehicles, thereby benefiting ourselves, other companies making electric vehicles and the world."

For details on Tesla suing Rivian, suggest checking the lawsuit claims.

Source: https://ir.tesla.com/_flysystem/s3/sec/000156459021004599/tsla-10k_20201231-gen.pdf

 

[RobStark]

From Tesla 10K:
"We have also adopted a patent policy in which we irrevocably pledged that we will not initiate a lawsuit against any party for infringing our patents through activity relating to electric vehicles or related equipment for so long as such party is acting in good faith. We made this pledge in order to encourage the advancement of a common, rapidly-evolving platform for electric vehicles, thereby benefiting ourselves, other companies making electric vehicles and the world."

For details on Tesla suing Rivian, suggest checking the lawsuit claims.

Source: https://ir.tesla.com/_flysystem/s3/sec/000156459021004599/tsla-10k_20201231-gen.pdf

Why not post the relevant part from 449 pages?

 

[SOULPEDL]

Batteries would definitely help and of course large customers can always negotiate directly with utilities. Tesla can also help by using more real time pricing, but customers don't always appreciate that. Avoiding peak demand times will be critical in keeping costs down. That timeframe is usually in the 4-8pm range. Hypothetically, demand charges for a 3 stall 150kw charger without a ton of use might approach half the total bill. Just hypothetically of course.

We know first hand the value of powerwalls when it comes to peak demand and pricing at home. And our power company even subsidized one of the powerwalls ($3,600 cash) because I'm steadying their load against the growth around here (and as part of a legal settlement with Tesla I believe).

So I don't see why not take the same approach at Superchargers. It's exactly what bit us in Yuma... right at peak demand, and that was only a bottleneck situation orchestrated by the utility company. I couldn't even fathom a charging network where it just didn't work at all. There are potential damages to one's health in some situations. To do this wrong is a huge risk to entire corporations IMO. Sometimes I think competitors are screwing up charging just so people hate EVs. If not, they had better start warning people of the dangers when "connectivity" is down and it's 118F. Glad to see some countries working this out at least.

 

[Krugerrand]

But Tesla is suing pure BEV automaker Rivian for stealing trade secrets like which adhesive and fasteners they use. And for stealing Tesla's human resource playbook. Allegedly.

Because that wasn’t in ‘good faith’.

 

[Hock1]

The tweet from Elon is actually a very profound revelation. If true the only logical implication is that not all of Tesla production will be part of this universe.

He could also be saying that the Theory of Relativity will be moot by 2060, replaced by new laws of how the universe actually works. I.e., the speed of light can actually occur without the universe becoming an infinite mass.

 

[StealthP3D]

A quick example. 50 stall SC station with 250KW chargers. (this is equivalent to something like a factory). Utility rates can range from simple to maddingly complex so I'll use an easy example of a blended KW rate close to national average of $10 per KW. This is charged at the PEAK usage for that month (or even that year), so if at some point in the month all 50 stalls were occupied, that is the pricing used for all energy over that period. It doesn't matter if the station usually only has 20 stalls full or not, if you hit that peak that's what you pay. So our 50 stall station might have a monthly Demand charge of $125k (plus tax) added in to the standard kWh cost. A place with expensive energy like CA could be double or triple that amount.

In your attempt to be overly dramatic you have designed an example that could never occur. There is NO WAY a 50 stall, 250 kW Supercharging location could have a peak draw of 12,500 kW. First of all, 50 stalls is enough to ensure there is reasonably random distribution of cars in various states of charge, ie, all 50 cars could not park and plug in simultaneously and all cars would not be at such a low state of charge that they would all draw the maximum of 250 kW, not even initially. Version three superchargers only dole out 250 kW for a small fraction of the total charging time and quickly ramp to below 150 kW by 50% state of charge and continue to rapidly taper to below 50 kW by 80% state of charge. And since the charging power is continuously tapering, the bulk of the charging time will be at much lower numbers than 250 kW. And then you have to average in all the cars that are not charging at all, either because they just plugged in and have not begun the quick ramp to the maximum charge rate the battery will accept (which will be below 250 kW in many cases, either due to not being 250 kW compatible (Standard Range models or older models) or because they are already over 50% state of charge) or because they have just unplugged but not left the stall or another car has not pulled in or plugged in yet. I think at PEAK draw, a 50 stall, 250 kW station could, at most, draw up to around 30% of your estimate of 12,500 kW demand charge. This would be when there was a line of cars waiting to plug in.

 

[MP3Mike]

In your attempt to be overly dramatic you have designed an example that could never occur. There is NO WAY a 50 stall, 250 kW Supercharging location could have a peak draw of 12,500 kW. First of all, 50 stalls is enough to ensure there is reasonably random distribution of cars in various states of charge, ie, all 50 cars could not park and plug in simultaneously and all cars would not be at such a low state of charge that they would all draw the maximum of 250 kW, not even initially. Version three superchargers only dole out 250 kW for a small fraction of the total charging time and quickly ramp to below 150 kW by 50% state of charge and continue to rapidly taper to below 50 kW by 80% state of charge. And since the charging power is continuously tapering, the bulk of the charging time will be at much lower numbers than 250 kW. And then you have to average in all the cars that are not charging at all, either because they just plugged in and have not begun the quick ramp to the maximum charge rate the battery will accept (which will be below 250 kW in many cases, either due to not being 250 kW compatible (Standard Range models or older models) or because they are already over 50% state of charge) or because they have just unplugged but not left the stall or another car has not pulled in or plugged in yet. I think at PEAK draw, a 50 stall, 250 kW station could, at most, draw up to around 30% of your estimate of 12,500 kW demand charge. This would be when there was a line to plug in.

I'm sure someone could arrange 50 drivers to come in at a low SOC and plug in all at once, just like stadiums bring people in to flush all the toilets at once. But it wouldn't matter, because each V3 cabinet, supporting 4 stalls, can only draw a total of ~350kW by itself. (It can pull an additional 525kW from a shared DC bus consisting of other V3 cabinets and/or battery storage.)

So a 50 stall V3 site, without storage, could draw a maximum of ~4,550 kW.

 

[StealthP3D]

But Tesla is suing pure BEV automaker Rivian for stealing trade secrets like which adhesive and fasteners they use. And for stealing Tesla's human resource playbook. Allegedly.

You must have a different definition of "in good faith" than Elon and I do.

 

[RobStark]

You must have a different definition of "in good faith" than Elon and I do.

I guess so.

Elon If we are on a sinking ship(earth) and we at the front of the ship figure out a superior bucket design it would be just plain stupid to prevent those at the back of the ship from using that same design.

But I guess if those at the back steal their tar formulation or how to recruit ship crew then you file a lawsuit.

 

[mrdoubleb]

Hope @avoigt doesnt mind my reposting his tweets. He's got some goodies.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1412748509313474567

I find this amazing.

No offense to Alex, but while this is good news of course, and finally Tesla's European sales charts look as they should, with the UK, Germany and France being the Top 3, not some smaller countries with a special subsidy or tax circumstance, I am not necessarily a fan of him posting this in this context. If we are - rightfully - pointing out how misleading it is for media or TSLAQ to take the first or second month of a quarter and claim Tesla sales are down, we can't do the same in the other direction by picking out the last month of the quarter. It's just like how people are re-posting that the Model 3 was the number 1 car in the UK in June. Awesome, but we do know what happens 3rd month of the quarter and we should be much happier/prouder that it is #11 YTD.

 

[StealthP3D]

I guess so.

Elon If we are on a sinking ship(earth) and we at the front of the ship figure out a superior bucket design it would be just plain stupid to prevent those at the back of the ship from using that same design.

But I guess if those at the back steal their tar formulation or how to recruit ship crew then you file a lawsuit.

If I was Elon and I saw you stealing Tesla's tar formulation, I wouldn't sue you, I would push you off the ship. Because a sinking ship will sink more slowly with fewer people onboard who are rooting for the ship to sink.

 

[StealthP3D]

No offense to Alex, but while this is good news of course, and finally Tesla's European sales charts look as they should, with the UK, Germany and France being the Top 3, not some smaller countries with a special subsidy or tax circumstance, I am not necessarily a fan of him posting this in this context. If we are - rightfully - pointing out how misleading it is for media or TSLAQ to take the first or second month of a quarter and claim Tesla sales are down, we can't do the same in the other direction by picking out the last month of the quarter. It's just like how people are re-posting that the Model 3 was the number 1 car in the UK in June. Awesome, but we do know what happens 3rd month of the quarter and we should be much happier/prouder that it is #11 YTD.

I'm confident Alex would not post monthly numbers from limited geographic areas except to counter the FUD numbers posted in previous months, in those same areas, with the claim they meant Tesla sales were falling off a cliff.

Please think about what you say, in context.

 

[RobStark]

If I was Elon and I saw you stealing Tesla's tar formulation, I wouldn't sue you, I would push you off the ship. Because a sinking ship will sink more slowly with fewer people onboard who are rooting for the ship to sink.

And the ship crew would push you off the ship for preventing more people from dumping incoming water overboard. You are rooting for the people at the front of ship to "win" at the cost of increasing the chances of the ship sinking.

 

[Big Time]

Who’s boat is this boat?

 

[Mengy]

I guess so.

Elon If we are on a sinking ship(earth) and we at the front of the ship figure out a superior bucket design it would be just plain stupid to prevent those at the back of the ship from using that same design.

But I guess if those at the back steal their tar formulation or how to recruit ship crew then you file a lawsuit.

Do you believe crimes should go unpunished?