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Someone on reddit noted Elon liked a tweet that was posted a month ago. Is Elon hinting at a 5:1 stock split?
 
@Knightshade expressed it best in a long post this morning, pages back. Probably all the legacy auto makers are screwed. Probably. However, it is interesting to see Ford of all of them moving faster. KS correctly pointed out that Ford themselves had not built battery factories but they have gigafactory sort of relationships with SK to build 2 and I think are on the verge of launching more. The SK factory in SC is well underway I think. However, the Mach-e is getting the press and attention that VW hoped for the id4 (which is a dog). I'm not sure that anyone would have predicted that, it is getting press and attention that the Bolt never had, they had a waiting list even.

Don't get me wrong, Tesla is the only reason any legacy company is doing anything. I can't say why but I know that Ford was look strongly at EVs in 2007. By 2008 they had to mortgage everything to stay afloat and then the Bush admin torched them by bailing out GM. IF GM had stayed bankrupt Ford would have soared post 2009. As it was GM had a relative cake walk.

At this point you could not ask much more from the CEO and leadership team of Ford. Also, yes they will continue to sell lots of ICEs. No one, not even Tesla, has enough batteries to build appreciable numbers of cars this year. Next year will be even worse, I think. Huge demand for EVs and battery plants will be so constrained. Refined products are going to be tight as well- next year could see all manner of battery challenges. So, ICE sales will still be high next year. 2024-5...will be interesting. I think Tesla could be heading for a huge percent of total sales in the EU and NA markets by 2025. Then you will see GM and chrysler really fighting for dear life. I expect the electric f150 and the huge stake in Rivian to save Ford.

They might not make it. I don't see products on GM's product list that are compelling in 2023 and I think 2022/ 2023 is the earliest they can really launch in any scale. GM's association with lordstown and nikola reeks of poor management and governance. Ford did due diligence and invested in Rivian, GM picked Nikola and lordstown- both reeked of fraud and lack of substance. Reeked.

So yeah- I think you could give Ford some credit at this point. They backed Rivian, they got a partner to build them 2 battery factories, they launched a car that is getting amazing publicity, and they got Biden to promote the F150 and have a huge waiting list for it. Objectively, the best of the legacy auto makers. Are they still a legacy firm, yes. Is the car built around a computer, no. Long way to go, yes. Will they make it?

BTW - Mach-E battery packs are LG -
corrected by Ford themselves - 1:30 into the video
 
Slow day, after hours....
Looking at what countries NEED Tesla for the mission:

Article: Just 25 'mega-cities' produce 52 per cent of the world's urban greenhouse gas emissions — and 23 of them are in China

Wow. 52% of world's pollution coming from only 25 cities....I compiled that data of top 75 cities by country and took into consideration population sizes (to be fair)...
CountrySum of Pollution,
Megatons of CO2
% of pollutionSum of PopulationTons CO2/capita
China
2,565.9​
66.12%​
263,071,354
9.8​
US
177.8​
4.58%​
18,644,290
9.5​
Russia
154.6​
3.98%​
18,097,557
8.5​
Germany
125.5​
3.23%​
6,774,374
18.5​
Japan
106.8​
2.75%​
60,200,420
1.8​
SouthAfrica
95.1​
2.45%​
16,733,912
5.7​
Philippines
49.5​
1.27%​
14,158,573
3.5​
Thailand
49.2​
1.27%​
10,722,815
4.6​
UAE
48.3​
1.24%​
2,921,376
16.5​
Korea
48.1​
1.24%​
9,967,677
4.8​
Turkey
47.5​
1.22%​
15,415,197
3.1​
Indonesia
43.9​
1.13%​
10,915,364
4.0​
India
41.9​
1.08%​
31,902,674
1.3​
Singapore
40.4​
1.04%​
5,991,801
6.7​
Australia
36.3​
0.94%​
2,067,333
17.6​
UnitedKingdom
33.6​
0.87%​
9,425,622
3.6​
Venezuela
31.8​
0.82%​
2,945,858
10.8​
Mexico
30.7​
0.79%​
21,918,936
1.4​
Nigeria
29.3​
0.76%​
14,862,111
2.0​
Brazil
25.0​
0.64%​
22,237,472
1.1​
Vietnam
22.4​
0.58%​
4,874,982
4.6​
Italy
21.9​
0.56%​
1,795,235
12.2​
Chile
20.0​
0.52%​
6,811,595
2.9​
Canada
18.1​
0.47%​
6,254,571
2.9​
Netherlands
17.5​
0.45%​
1,012,007
17.3​
Grand Total
3,880.8​
100.00%​
579,723,106
6.7​


It's pretty staggering to see how concentrated these results are. I wanted to see it grouped by Country and then needed to see population to be fair. Just thought I'd share. Good thing we've got a Giga in Shanghai !!!

Here's with the cities visible:
Stand out cities for pollution per capita: Handan, China @ 70.7 and Frankfurt, Germany @ 58.3 Tons/capita...
Row LabelsSum of Pollution% of pollutionSum of PopulationTons CO2/capita
China
2,565.9​
66.12%​
263,071,354
9.8​
Beijing
132.6​
3.42%​
20,896,820
6.3​
Changchun
42.6​
1.10%​
4,520,695
9.4​
Changsha
24.6​
0.63%​
4,694,722
5.2​
Chengdu
54.5​
1.40%​
9,305,116
5.9​
Chongqing
80.6​
2.08%​
16,382,376
4.9​
Dalian
142.5​
3.67%​
5,775,938
24.7​
Guangzhou
71.0​
1.83%​
13,635,397
5.2​
Guiyang
42.1​
1.08%​
3,407,463
12.4​
Handan
199.7​
5.15%​
2,824,345
70.7​
Hangzhou
61.4​
1.58%​
7,845,501
7.8​
Harbin
30.8​
0.79%​
5,000,000
6.2​
Hefei
18.8​
0.48%​
4,371,005
4.3​
Hohhot
23.5​
0.60%​
2,239,344
10.5​
Hong Kong
55.9​
1.44%​
7,598,189
7.4​
Huizhou
68.7​
1.77%​
2,605,871
26.4​
Jiaxing
33.9​
0.87%​
1,318,418
25.7​
Jinan
38.5​
0.99%​
8,700,000
4.4​
Kaohsiung
63.6​
1.64%​
2,773,000
22.9​
Kunming
63.0​
1.62%​
4,550,831
13.8​
Lanzhou
29.9​
0.77%​
3,153,808
9.5​
Nanchang
25.2​
0.65%​
3,709,958
6.8​
Nanjing
47.9​
1.24%​
9,143,980
5.2​
Nanning
20.9​
0.54%​
3,974,322
5.3​
Qingdao
93.6​
2.41%​
5,742,486
16.3​
Shanghai
187.9​
4.84%​
27,795,702
6.8​
Shenzhen
62.9​
1.62%​
12,591,696
5.0​
Shijiazhuang
67.8​
1.75%​
4,199,392
16.1​
Suzhou
151.8​
3.91%​
7,427,096
20.4​
Taiyuan
26.7​
0.69%​
3,976,000
6.7​
Tianjin
125.9​
3.24%​
13,794,450
9.1​
Urumqi
75.3​
1.94%​
4,543,684
16.6​
Wuhan
110.9​
2.86%​
8,473,405
13.1​
Wuxi
76.9​
1.98%​
3,315,113
23.2​
Xi'an
28.2​
0.73%​
8,274,651
3.4​
Yinchuan
55.5​
1.43%​
1,626,584
34.1​
Zhengzhou
66.2​
1.70%​
5,510,341
12.0​
Shenyang
64.1​
1.65%​
7,373,655
8.7​
US
177.8​
4.58%​
18,644,290
9.5​
Chicago
31.5​
0.81%​
2,679,080
11.8​
Houston
33.4​
0.86%​
2,323,660
14.4​
Los Angeles
26.6​
0.68%​
3,983,540
6.7​
New York City
51.3​
1.32%​
8,230,290
6.2​
San Diego
35.0​
0.90%​
1,427,720
24.5​
Russia
154.6​
3.98%​
18,097,557
8.5​
Moscow
112.5​
2.90%​
12,593,252
8.9​
Saint Petersburg
42.1​
1.08%​
5,504,305
7.6​
Germany
125.5​
3.23%​
6,774,374
18.5​
Berlin
27.5​
0.71%​
3,566,791
7.7​
Frankfurt
45.7​
1.18%​
784,780
58.3​
Hamburg
19.5​
0.50%​
1,788,995
10.9​
Stuttgart
32.8​
0.85%​
633,808
51.8​
Japan
106.8​
2.75%​
60,200,420
1.8​
Osaka
19.8​
0.51%​
19,110,616
1.0​
Tokyo
66.1​
1.70%​
37,339,804
1.8​
Yokohama
21.0​
0.54%​
3,750,000
5.6​
SouthAfrica
95.1​
2.45%​
16,733,912
5.7​
Cape Town
21.5​
0.55%​
4,709,990
4.6​
Durban
22.7​
0.58%​
3,176,254
7.1​
Johannesburg
24.7​
0.64%​
5,926,668
4.2​
Tshwane
26.1​
0.67%​
2,921,000
8.9​
Philippines
49.5​
1.27%​
14,158,573
3.5​
Manilla
49.5​
1.27%​
14,158,573
3.5​
Thailand
49.2​
1.27%​
10,722,815
4.6​
Bangkok
49.2​
1.27%​
10,722,815
4.6​
UAE
48.3​
1.24%​
2,921,376
16.5​
Dubai
48.3​
1.24%​
2,921,376
16.5​
Korea
48.1​
1.24%​
9,967,677
4.8​
Seoul
48.1​
1.24%​
9,967,677
4.8​
Turkey
47.5​
1.22%​
15,415,197
3.1​
Istanbul
47.5​
1.22%​
15,415,197
3.1​
Indonesia
43.9​
1.13%​
10,915,364
4.0​
Jakarta
43.9​
1.13%​
10,915,364
4.0​
India
41.9​
1.08%​
31,902,674
1.3​
Chennai
19.3​
0.50%​
11,235,018
1.7​
Mumbai
22.6​
0.58%​
20,667,656
1.1​
Singapore
40.4​
1.04%​
5,991,801
6.7​
Singapore
40.4​
1.04%​
5,991,801
6.7​
Australia
36.3​
0.94%​
2,067,333
17.6​
Perth
36.3​
0.94%​
2,067,333
17.6​
UnitedKingdom
33.6​
0.87%​
9,425,622
3.6​
London
33.6​
0.87%​
9,425,622
3.6​
Venezuela
31.8​
0.82%​
2,945,858
10.8​
Caracas
31.8​
0.82%​
2,945,858
10.8​
Mexico
30.7​
0.79%​
21,918,936
1.4​
Mexico City
30.7​
0.79%​
21,918,936
1.4​
Nigeria
29.3​
0.76%​
14,862,111
2.0​
Lagos
29.3​
0.76%​
14,862,111
2.0​
Brazil
25.0​
0.64%​
22,237,472
1.1​
Sao Paulo
25.0​
0.64%​
22,237,472
1.1​
Vietnam
22.4​
0.58%​
4,874,982
4.6​
Hanoi
22.4​
0.58%​
4,874,982
4.6​
Italy
21.9​
0.56%​
1,795,235
12.2​
Torino
21.9​
0.56%​
1,795,235
12.2​
Chile
20.0​
0.52%​
6,811,595
2.9​
Santiago
20.0​
0.52%​
6,811,595
2.9​
Canada
18.1​
0.47%​
6,254,571
2.9​
Toronto
18.1​
0.47%​
6,254,571
2.9​
Netherlands
17.5​
0.45%​
1,012,007
17.3​
Rotterdam
17.5​
0.45%​
1,012,007
17.3​
Grand Total
3,880.8​
100.00%​
579,723,106
6.7​
edit: fixed error in pivot table

Pretty hard to read the Daily Hate article due to adverts etc, but the UK is partly/largely de-industrialised now (certainly with regards to how UK used to be a world leader in heavy industry). Therefore these figures might be interpreted as vehicle/air-con use type emissions, when they might be largely manufacturing.

ie it's not domestic, it's industrial (hence Venezuela at 10.8 because of its huge Oil/Gas presumably). Frankfurt seems odd at per-capita of 58.3 unless few residents but lots of commuters, but that applies to London which is only 3.6 (UK average)
 
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Reactions: capster
This is from /r/WSB - and entirely correct.

Screenshot 2021-07-15 at 11.22.25.png


Still nothing to be happy about - it increases the "EVs are fire hazards" myth.

In other news: the I4 configurator is live - we now know that driving a BMW electric vehicle in Switzerland costs you dearly. How much you ask? Well if you compare the i4 M50 to the Model 3 LR AWD Performance Boost, you could buy a second Model 3 SR+ with the money the BMW costs you more than the faster, quicker, lighter and more efficient Tesla...

02d34ccf39c6cdbebd43cba90651f8757d8bd1b5.png
 
As I mentioned earlier, LG are making Mach-E cells at the moment. I don't want any EV fires, but should Mach-E customers be concerned? Hopefully different design/production facilities used. It could even be tolerances, wrong setup affecting only a few batches/runs/periods (assuming cells went to GM & Hyundai)

Kia / Hyundai fires suggest it's not a separator according to some (pinch of salt etc)

"fires' suspected cause: a misalignment inside the battery cell. Said misalignment would be the folded anode tab and would have nothing to do with cell separators, as previous rumors said."

 
What may kill Ford is not an inability to sell 100% of their EV production- it'll be how few of them they're capable of producing.

True. Also what might kill Ford is their cost of producing those EV's. As the likes of Tesla and other pure EV companies continue to lower prices while maintaining profit margins, legacy automakers like Ford will find their large overhead and costs of production to be very prohibitive. If Ford can't keep the prices of their EV's competitive while still making enough profit to survive they will flounder.

Of course government bailouts are always a possibility for the likes of Ford as well.
 
Thank you, it has been a couple of weeks since we got rid of the last gas car (Mercedes suv) that we had. 100% electric fleet now. I enjoy observing what AP sees. Build quality of the Y is better than my 2016 facelift s. The progress is evident.
Same here.
got rid of my last gas car 3 weeks ago. Now, 100% electric.

the only flash I have noticed is the compound they apply to finish the paint on the driver side went on the chrome delete trims. I didn’t notice at delivery because it was sunny, I couldn’t remove the white compound on the black trims near the driver window, placed à service call, went to Tesla yesterday, they cleaned the whole car but there are some oily stain marks on the upper window Chrome delete driver sid, the guy ordered news trims for the whole car and told me he would try to make a mobile ranger come change them so don’t have to go back. I never had anything else but excellent service every time I needed. That’s why I will keep buying Teslas for the rest of my life.

Gave my 20 y.o nephew a test drive yesterday, now he wants to replace his Toyota Yaris with a Tesla, instantaneous conversion. The new generation sees Tesla as their dream car, not Porsche. They will grow up dreaming or driving a Tesla instead of driving Porsche like we did when we were young.
 
Tesla visualization in a cemetery:


I didn’t realize autopilot could see the undead! This could open up some interesting new markets for us investors. /s
 
Same here.
got rid of my last gas car 3 weeks ago. Now, 100% electric.

the only flash I have noticed is the compound they apply to finish the paint on the driver side went on the chrome delete trims. I didn’t notice at delivery because it was sunny, I couldn’t remove the white compound on the black trims near the driver window, placed à service call, went to Tesla yesterday, they cleaned the whole car but there are some oily stain marks on the upper window Chrome delete driver sid, the guy ordered news trims for the whole car and told me he would try to make a mobile ranger come change them so don’t have to go back. I never had anything else but excellent service every time I needed. That’s why I will keep buying Teslas for the rest of my life.

Gave my 20 y.o nephew a test drive yesterday, now he wants to replace his Toyota Yaris with a Tesla, instantaneous conversion. The new generation sees Tesla as their dream car, not Porsche. They will grow up dreaming or driving a Tesla instead of driving Porsche like we did when we were young.
Me three. Sold my 96 Jeep about 3 weeks ago. Now have waiting space for the coming CT.

I am noticing so much humidity this Summer that the garage is like a swamp. Any water on the floor seems to stay so considering some seasonal dehumidifying of some manner.
 
Ford will be able to sell every EV they actually make but the real problem is not how many they are capable of producing, it's whether they can sell them for more than it costs to make, market and deliver them. How does it help them to sell all of them if they lose money on every one they sell? That's why they won't be making many!

You may say, "Certainly, Ford knows how to make cars, they just need volume efficiencies". But Ford couldn't even make gas cars profitably (except for the Mustang)! And you have already admitted they will not be able to make EV's in high volumes. And making an EV for a competitive price is much more difficult, even in volume, than making an ICE car for a competitive price. You can thank Tesla's relentless pursuit of figuring out more efficient ways to do things for making EV's cost competitive (and profitable). But Ford can't just snap their fingers and be as efficient as Tesla. Ford has a real problem on their hands and the electric F-150 is not going to magically fix it. Nor will three or four more years. Even an unlimited supply of batteries at current battery prices cannot fix Ford's problem! Because they can't make an EV that is cost-competitive with a gas car.
Not sure what axe you're grinding- you seemed determine to some fairly informed posts and an excellent summary by @Knightshade but here goes.

RE kudus to Ford. Ford evaluated and bought a huge chunk of Rivian. For this reason alone they will survive and did better than all the other major legacy firms. Don't know why that is hard for you. That alone assures them a place in history compared to other legacy auto companies because Rivian is the only other pure play EV in EU or NA markets that looks to make it.

Ford does know how to make cars at scale so they don't have to learn how to do something it has taken Tesla a decade to learn- you make it sound as if that is bad for Ford. They have lots of other issues but everyone (legacy auto) does too. Ford had enough sense to stop making cars when they were not selling- it was the logical decision. People want SUVs and trucks. Ford makes great, big, SUVs and trucks and why bother with cars that no one wants. Ford may only sell a few models but as long as one of those is the f150/250/350 than they will survive just fine. They sell more of those than Tesla will make this year in all models. Tesla moved in the same direction. They are counting on the Y (not 3) they are making the cybertruck which was benchmarked against the f150. Do you think Elon is a fool? Ford has a long way to go, everyone knows it. But what is interesting to me, as someone that spent time in Detroit, is that it is Ford and not Honda or Toyota or GM or VW that is making best strategic and tactical moves right now. At least that is my take. The ? I have are regarding the electronics package and the battery solutions but they may simply be waiting for Rivian to scale and make do with SK in the meantime. I have no clue having left the consulting world.

Lastly, I was often in Detroit when 08 blew up, we (as in my small partnership where I was lead partner) lost over 10 mil in contracts in 08/9 in Detroit. Don't rewrite history yourself. Ford would have loved for GM to fail, they were F'ing furious at the govt bailing GM out. They didn't stop being furious til the admin offered them billions to be good soldiers why do you think Ford still hasn't paid back those loans- with mr ford that will be personal- I have no idea how they are written but I would not be surprised if they never fully repay the loans. So, I cannot express politely just how wrong you are..but lets just say you are wrong. The govt could have just as easily backed up the suppliers that Ford needed and saved tens of billions and that is something the treasury looked at but politicians screamed. Ford had the foresight to see the crash coming, they raised all the cash and mortgaged everything counting on GM and Chrysler finally failing. Ford is also to be commended for that foresight, they saved US taxpayers billions and billions.
 
This is from /r/WSB - and entirely correct.

View attachment 684710

Still nothing to be happy about - it increases the "EVs are fire hazards" myth.

In other news: the I4 configurator is live - we now know that driving a BMW electric vehicle in Switzerland costs you dearly. How much you ask? Well if you compare the i4 M50 to the Model 3 LR AWD Performance Boost, you could buy a second Model 3 SR+ with the money the BMW costs you more than the faster, quicker, lighter and more efficient Tesla...

02d34ccf39c6cdbebd43cba90651f8757d8bd1b5.png
I think the EPA ratings in this table have not been converted to kilomteres.
 
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