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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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This is how I read Gordo's manipulation...
  • Do you want 520 miles of range?!!!
  • Do you want a Tesla model? I refuse to spell S3XY!
  • Do you like FORD?
  • Aren't Audi's sweeeeet looking?

Hey guys, we need to stop playing the media's game. When guys like Gordo stir the pot by pitting EVs against each other, just ignore it. Having Tesla fans bash non-Tesla EVs, while non-Tesla EV fans bash Tesla, that just serves the interests of the fossil fuel industry.

I really want to make this point clear: Tesla's competition is not other EVs. Tesla's competition is gasoline cars!

Let's please use this forum to criticize the Mercedes S-class and BMW 7series, not the Porsche Taycan or Lucid Air.
 
As investors, it is important not to believe in magic. I read the posts on this board and I get the sense some of you think Tesla has magic powers. That if Tesla does X, that means X is right and every other decision is wrong. This is a total misunderstanding of the Tesla way. Tesla's success comes from rational decisions (and some luck), not from magic powers. Elon Musk and his company apply first principles thinking rather than copying past successful decisions. In addition, they believe in experimentation. They believe in making decisions quickly, with the understanding that those decisions may be wrong. Tesla tries lots of things, and many times they are wrong, many times they fail, but the company is built to recover and adapt quickly. Elon deliberately built a company that makes mistakes and recovers rather than trying to be right every time.
I largely agree with this but you fail to emphasize how first principle thinking guides what sorts of things to try. Back in history there were two famous successful technical people with very different styles: Edison and Tesla. Edison was famous for "trying a lot of things" while Tesla used a scientific methodology to guide what things to try. Today Tesla the company uses Musk's strategy which is more similar to Tesla's than Edison's. When you say "Tesla tries lots of things and many times they are wrong," it makes it sound like they take an Edison-like approach throwing everything (mostly randomly) against the wall and see what sticks type of approach. Tesla doesn't do that.

When I'm looking at Tesla competitors to invest in, I look for companies that mimic Tesla's first principles + experimentation mindset rather than companies that mimic Tesla's specific decisions. And I'm going to give two examples.

Example 1 is Lucid's charging network versus what Rivian is doing. Lucid is relying on ElectrifyAmerica while Rivian is copying Tesla and building out a proprietary charging network. But think a little deeper, and Lucid's strategy actually makes much more sense. The point of a fast charging network isn't to compete with other EVs, but to compete with gasoline cars. That's the reason Tesla build the superchargers, not to compete with other EVs but with gas cars. Partnering with EA lets Lucid put together a charging network competitive with gas cars much quicker than building out a proprietary network. Even though Rivian made the same decision as Tesla, Lucid's decision actually reflects closer to the Tesla way of thinking.
Here I completely disagree. If Electrify America (EA) had a track record of competency then it might have been a sensible strategy, but they don't so it wasn't. Lucid could have partnered with Tesla (as Tesla has expressed willingness to partner on charging from the start of the supercharger network). Tesla never set out to build a proprietary network - they set out to build an effective charging network. It ended up proprietary only because all competitors actively worked to thwart Tesla at standards bodies to adopt inferior standards with hopes of sidelining Tesla. Still any competitor could have (and still can if they're serious about a real partnership) join the supercharger network.

I don't know what motivates Rivian's decision, but it could be that they think existing charging systems (including Tesla's) are technically inferior and only by building their own can they make a superior charging network that they believe is necessary/warranted. If so, that would be closer to Tesla's way than Lucid's.

The reality is probably that both Lucid's and Rivian's decisions are entirely business decisions. Lucid needs a network sooner than later but probably doesn't want to partner with a competitor and they don't have the desire or resources to make a charging network. I think that Rivian thinks it has such deep resources it can build a network to replace EA's but that is competently made and maintained and that they will use CCS so they can use EA until theirs is better and eventually other car makers will use their new network too. I don't believe they will make a proprietary network.

Tesla also makes plenty of business decisions and Musk is talented in this area too. He has a different view from most business leaders but I'm not sure you could call these first principles. They are Musk's principles but business isn't governed by the laws of physics (although it isn't exempt from them :)) but instead the laws made by humans. Most accepted business wisdom is that monopolies, rent-seeking, advertising, and government favoritism are excellent strategies. That moats and locking in your customers are very beneficial. Sadly those are the accepted "first principles" of business. It's not clear that Musk's business principals are superior in the make-the-most-money sense but they are very effective when combined with the many advantages of the first-principle technical approach.
 
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I bought back $750 covered calls at a loss, so I wouldn't lose the shares. I waited too long to buy them because I had too much faith in the manipulators to defend 750.

Then the share price kept surging so I bought back $760 calls at a reduced gain, because I had too little faith in the manipulators to defend 760. Live and learn.
Since it's the weekend: How long ago did you sell the 750s? Did you roll them or just buy them back at a loss? Obviously, TSLA can move 10-20% on you when you least expect it, but I try to only sell options that have a low chance of ending up in the money. This means less premium, but better sleep. I think being successful in options selling requires not being greedy, and selling safe put and call straddles, so if the stock moves a lot in one direction and you do have to buy back, at least the other options still made you money.
 
Hey guys, we need to stop playing the media's game. When guys like Gordo stir the pot by pitting EVs against each other, just ignore it. Having Tesla fans bash non-Tesla EVs, while non-Tesla EV fans bash Tesla, that just serves the interests of the fossil fuel industry.

I really want to make this point clear: Tesla's competition is not other EVs. Tesla's competition is gasoline cars!

Let's please use this forum to criticize the Mercedes S-class and BMW 7series, not the Porsche Taycan or Lucid Air.
Part of being all in TSLA is making sure that Tesla can't be caught and destroyed by the OEMs, like the Tesla Bears have been saying for years. While I do want ICE to go away, it is important for TSLA investors to evaluated what other companies are bringing to market and know that GM, Ford, Audi, Porsche, etc., are still years behind with their EV attempts (range, efficiency, pricing, profit margins, battery cell format and quality, charging network, etc).
 
If I received healthcare without having to fight the insurance companies over every single bill, and didn't have to fear bankruptcy from the exorbitant rates charged today. Yes, I think I'd go for that (much as I don't like to have yet another type of forever tax).

Some little-known-by-many; fun facts about Canada / Renewables / Tesla:

Although mortgage interest for your primary residence is non-deductible in most circumstances; Canadians pay no tax on the sale of their principle residence ( no limit on the gain - it is 100% tax free).

In BC, 95% of the electricity is renewable most of which is hydro electricity, and is about 6.5 - 10 cents US per kwh (9.39 -14 cents CAD); regularly the lowest or among the lowest in North America

BC also has the highest number of EV sales per capita in North America; with Tesla leading the pack.



ok now for the bad news:

A performance S, an S with options and virtually all X's (and any car over $125K CAD) is taxed at a rate of 25-26% - New or used. OUCH.
 
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Since it's the weekend: How long ago did you sell the 750s? Did you roll them or just buy them back at a loss? Obviously, TSLA can move 10-20% on you when you least expect it, but I try to only sell options that have a low chance of ending up in the money. This means less premium, but better sleep. I think being successful in options selling requires not being greedy, and selling safe put and call straddles, so if the stock moves a lot in one direction and you do have to buy back, at least the other options still made you money.

I've been selling covered calls in the week of their expiration, at strikes where call walls already exist on the max pain chart. I assumed those walls were created by market makers with the power to defend them. For several weeks that worked well. This last week it didn't.

I sell puts a month ahead, and roll to a new batch each week (edit: if they are out of the money). I don't care if they get exercised, because it usually gets me shares at a discount.

I'll be more cautious with selling calls in the next few weeks because of imminent catalysts. Maybe not sell any in the week of the Production/Delivery report.
 
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So are you going to bathe in your anecdote and sell like Neroden or....is there a point to any of this in the investor forum?
is there any point to discussing the customer service of tesla in the tesla investor forums? is that a joke? christ, no wonder its so bad, if even mentioning an area tesla is not perfect at gets this kind of reply, they are not even going to realize how bad it is. This should be an investor forum, not a cult.
 
is there any point to discussing the customer service of tesla in the tesla investor forums? is that a joke? christ, no wonder its so bad, if even mentioning an area tesla is not perfect at gets this kind of reply, they are not even going to realize how bad it is. This should be an investor forum, not a cult.
But it's not bad (you are the exception, not the rule). Most of us have had excellent cars (I've bought 8 so far) and great customer service experiences.
 
is there any point to discussing the customer service of tesla in the tesla investor forums? is that a joke? christ, no wonder its so bad, if even mentioning an area tesla is not perfect at gets this kind of reply, they are not even going to realize how bad it is. This should be an investor forum, not a cult.

I think people are quite sensitive given the endless FUD that has been dished out in relation to such things over the years. I don't think your experiences reflect the experiences of many here (I include myself here), so they probably dismiss such posting on the topic as a rant. That doesn't mean your concerns aren't valid and your experiences aren't real, but that's how I think people are interpreting them.
 
Part of being all in TSLA is making sure that Tesla can't be caught and destroyed by the OEMs, like the Tesla Bears have been saying for years. While I do want ICE to go away, it is important for TSLA investors to evaluated what other companies are bringing to market and know that GM, Ford, Audi, Porsche, etc., are still years behind with their EV attempts (range, efficiency, pricing, profit margins, battery cell format and quality, charging network, etc).

So true! Because if Ford, GM, Audi, etc. could catch up to Tesla in the next 3-5 years, especially if they could catch up in terms of manufacturing efficiency and cost to produce a comparable product, then Tesla is overvalued and the big OEM's are making a big mistake with their strategy of extending ICE sales as long as possible. However, that scenario requires Tesla to completely unravel because change happens faster in one direction than the other. Somehow, I don't think that Elon or the people he depends upon and who have bet their future on helping Tesla succeed in spectacular fashion will let that happen.

I think Gordy is a slow learner if he is still holding out hope that his dream will come true. Tesla's trajectory is already clear and we are not talking about a fickle market that can turn on a dime like perfumes and fashion. Tesla's ace in the hole is the amazingly large percentage of youngsters who can recognize a Tesla better than mom and dad and who say "Look mom, a Tesla" with awe and wonder. I'm sure in areas like Southern California this effect has already died down due how common Tesla have become but the love in the heart doesn't go away and those kids are now in middle school, high school or college by now and will preparing to enter their car buying years where they will remember the brand that made it all happen. It doesn't hurt that the same man is now putting regular folks into space.

I'm still not sure how Elon reached those young children so successfully at such an early age but I know that he did based on direct observation.
 
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The majority of owners have relatively new cars. It shouldn't shock anybody to know that a brand new car works correctly. What is more relevant is how long a Tesla will last. There simply are not enough 10 year old Teslas to know this yet, but if anyone with an older Tesla gets shouted down the minute they discuss the longevity of their vehicle, as investors we will have a big phat blindspot to a potential problem with the company,

edit: I'm constantly asked in my village if I am 'still happy with the tesla?'. Nobody ever asks me if its fast enough, or if the tech is cool enough. Older people, who are not crazy about EVs simply want to know if these things are reliable.
 
The majority of owners have relatively new cars. It shouldn't shock anybody to know that a brand new car works correctly. What is more relevant is how long a Tesla will last. There simply are not enough 10 year old Teslas to know this yet, but if anyone with an older Tesla gets shouted down the minute they discuss the longevity of their vehicle, as investors we will have a big phat blindspot to a potential problem with the company,

edit: I'm constantly asked in my village if I am 'still happy with the tesla?'. Nobody ever asks me if its fast enough, or if the tech is cool enough. Older people, who are not crazy about EVs simply want to know if these things are reliable.

Ok, why don’t you do the math and let us know how much it’s going to affect Tesla in the next decade, this now decade/years old Teslas.

You don’t realize the new manufacturing and constant improvement? Nobody getting a new Tesla now gets any of the issues you claim.

Don’t worry, old people in the villages will see the Ys and marvel and realize after they talk to the owners, like they talk to you, that’s the best and most reliable car EVER. Or they will get a new ICE that’s reliable like they knew “since forever” 🙄

Like really, what is that you are trying to say?
 
The majority of owners have relatively new cars. It shouldn't shock anybody to know that a brand new car works correctly. What is more relevant is how long a Tesla will last. There simply are not enough 10 year old Teslas to know this yet, but if anyone with an older Tesla gets shouted down the minute they discuss the longevity of their vehicle, as investors we will have a big phat blindspot to a potential problem with the company,

edit: I'm constantly asked in my village if I am 'still happy with the tesla?'. Nobody ever asks me if its fast enough, or if the tech is cool enough. Older people, who are not crazy about EVs simply want to know if these things are reliable.

You're not getting shouted down because you're discussing your specific experience, it's because you are repeatedly discussing your specific experience in an investor forum as if it's the rule and not the exception.

There is a proper time and place for everything.
 
Gasoline tanker crash today closes hwy in Alberta, Canada
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When I first heard about Tesla Motors back late 2012, it took me five minutes to realize battery electric vehicles had legs as an alternate to gas vehicles, not only to replace the vehicles themselves, but the whole method of oil extraction, refining and gas delivery, all which are unsustainable. Tesla showed us there is a better way, in every way, without compromise. To those here on TMC it is obvious and we are reaping the financial benefits through our investment with Tesla. However there are still the vast majority that have no clue an alternative exists. The World will be a better and safer place once all vehicles (autos, pick-up trucks, heavy duty work trucks, vans, semis, school buses, fire trucks, recreational vehicles, boats, jet skis, farm tractors & combines...) go electric and I am glad my investment in Tesla is playing a small part in this transportion transformation to sustainability. Tesla and Chinese BEV manufacturing companies are just getting started. Upstart BEV manufacturers and reluctant OEM will also help fill the void in the future. That vast majority that has no clue an alternative exists will be awoken one day, perhaps when the Cybertruck is a more familiar site on our roads than the Model 3 and Model Y. It will happen. It is just a matter of time. Opportunity knocks. The future is bright.

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Since it's the weekend: How long ago did you sell the 750s? Did you roll them or just buy them back at a loss? Obviously, TSLA can move 10-20% on you when you least expect it, but I try to only sell options that have a low chance of ending up in the money. This means less premium, but better sleep. I think being successful in options selling requires not being greedy, and selling safe put and call straddles, so if the stock moves a lot in one direction and you do have to buy back, at least the other options still made you money.
Can u perhaps poke your head into the options wheel thread and share your strategy/advice? 😃
 
Elon has hit 60m followers on Twitter.
FUD. Wouldn’t hurt a fly.

(Think. There is 86000 seconds in a day. If he slaps one follower every second and does that 60000 seconds per day, then it would take 1000 days or three years do it. People would have started complaining earlier. It would beat also the existing record. Also, I didn’t get slapped, but I don’t exclude the possibility that he cut corners. The best slap is no slap.)
 
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