Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Aw so true!!!! Thank you putting it all in perspective for me.
I don’t plan on doing anything differently from what I am doing. I just thought maybe there was something “more” I’m missing. But it seems to me like maybe this, being the best I can everyday in my career, being wise with money, and investing aggressively in TSLA, is truly good enough. 😊

Umm... I've got an idea. If you have a multi-million dollar brokerage account... How about you cut back from 110+ hours per week to, I don't know, 40? That's got to be the low-hanging fruit in terms of life-improvement. Could that be the "more" you're missing?
 
What if Elon knows he might not need more factories - TBD?

Of course, he did say one factory per contintent. I know... it's a strong counter argument speaking in terms of the ideal today. But what if part of the equation to predict future demand is widely unknown, therefor staulling the decision on where to build next greenfield factory, if at all... ever. If the final volume or peak number of cars on the road is sufficiently low, there might not need to be another factory if it is faster to ship than wait for the next factory to be built. And if one factory were to create all the vehicles necessary for one continent, would you literally move the factory or simply start shipping and looking for more efficient ways to move inventory over, above, or even under the seas? Which is faster?

Although unlikely they don't build another factory, do we have a final count for # of robo-vehicles needed in the world over time? Tesla vehicles could last 30 yrs or more with new batteries, motors, and chips. The driving demand is also dropping from working at home, so are we using the correct math models today on future vehicle needs? How near is the Singularity really?

OK, I'm having trouble with the mere 1% BEVs sold comment which is a long way from 100%. But hasn't Tesla been just adding another line to existing factories with lots of land around the existing spaces?

Then throw in the robots and his dream of a blurred factory whizzing away... I'm not convinced 100% he needs more factories, and I don't think Elon's convinced either.
I think Elon is highly convinced they need fewer factories than previously estimated.
For what is the limiting factor for factory productivity?

If some of the key limiting factors are a combination of high yield, high quality, low (unit) cost factory equipment, then a bot could be the new piece that makes all the other pieces than n percent more effective. By its nature, a bot is a combination of equipment and human capabillities.
A bot can be viewed as either a highly adaptable piece of equipment, producing a predictable amount of predictable precision units of work. Or as a highly specialized human, working in concert with a set of specialized tools, also producing predictable units of work.
Or both.

What if the Tesla Bot is not only an option play, based on the strength of the AI stack, but also and truly the new building block of the future Tesla factories?
Anywhere you own space, you can roof it, put in some standard production equipment, (maybe) enclose it and drop in 5-50 robots, and some unknown number of real, human workers to manage them and help out when they get stuck - now you have a micro-factory.
Want a bigger factory? OK - scaling up is seamless.

Elon may very well have a strong hunch that Tesla can crank up production yield of existing giga-factories *with* bots and also utilize ordinary factories whereever they may happen to be optimally placed, or a bargin - or both.

The Tesla Bot is a force-multiplier: It makes all future Tesla factories more efficient.
By how much is yet unknown. But as Elon says: The rate of improvement is really important. And I think the rate will be high.

The Tesla Bot may be the crucial building block for the alien dreadnought.

So, instead of only building more buildings and equipment, Tesla is starting to build the most adaptable and flexible factory equipment they can think of: Bots.

Imagine Elon thinking:
OK, so building new factories is time-consuming and boring. And gives the competitors and opponents ample chance for playing obstruction games on their own turf (Berlin).
So just invent a kind of factory with extreme scalabillity, which can be put into operation quickly: A collection of bots.
Done. Next.

Some play checkers, some play chess, some play Go.
Some invent new pieces, and play bigger and better games. And win.
 
Last edited:
That is remarkable. If that is indicative of a 20 to 30% improvement in efficiency of the drivetrain, that would impact revenues as the efficiencies should hit all other models.
Don't forget aerodynamics. Those who have seen the undercarriage of the refresh S note that it seems an exceptionally smooth surface. Other changes have improved aerodynamics also. Of course that matters most when going faster than the EPA test sequence provides.
 
If you have a multi-million dollar position in TSLA, one likely option is probably just to hold and wait. Also objectively not many people in the world have figured out how to achieve 8 figures within a few years.
Most investors really want action so they trade or trade options. The only long term options success is to originate the instruments.
The discipline few have is to study carefully before buying, then study carefully to ensure you sell before some catastrophe intervenes. Most fo the time that will not happen so you buy and hold. The studying is a wealth preserving strategy to minimize trading.

Not too many retail investors trading options end out with a multiple fo their original investment.
People who bought TSLA, AMZN, AAPL when they first studied the competitive advantage each has had, have made a few hundred percent gain.
Those who deal in active trading have had wide swings but end out poorer, usually. The strategies for suing them are predominately develop by people who make money on volatility.

Every so often these points need to be repeated.

OTOH if someone like to frequent casinos, options provide a way to do that while being socially distanced.
 
Here is a question regarding the theoretical "Company X":

If Elon were to create an umbrella X Inc. which included all of his companies under one banner (Tesla, Boring, Space X, Neuralink), how would TSLA shareholders be handled? Is it a 1 TSLA = 1 X transition, or is it handled by company valuations and then fractional shares of X would be distributed to TSLA shareholders accordingly?
I don’t care, I’ll still be rich. Therefore I support it.
 
Most investors really want action so they trade or trade options. The only long term options success is to originate the instruments.
The discipline few have is to study carefully before buying, then study carefully to ensure you sell before some catastrophe intervenes. Most fo the time that will not happen so you buy and hold. The studying is a wealth preserving strategy to minimize trading.

Not too many retail investors trading options end out with a multiple fo their original investment.
People who bought TSLA, AMZN, AAPL when they first studied the competitive advantage each has had, have made a few hundred percent gain.
Those who deal in active trading have had wide swings but end out poorer, usually. The strategies for suing them are predominately develop by people who make money on volatility.

Every so often these points need to be repeated.

OTOH if someone like to frequent casinos, options provide a way to do that while being socially distanced.
Most gamblers you mean. There are no such thing as "investment grade" option play (except creating the contracts). The number of people who bought the safest option such as leaps throughout Tesla's historic 5 year flatline mostly got crushed.
 
Most gamblers you mean. There are no such thing as "investment grade" option play (except creating the contracts). The number of people who bought the safest option such as leaps throughout Tesla's historic 5 year flatline mostly got crushed.

Not as much as those who wrote the far out-of-the-money calls in 2018 and 1019. Creating the contracts does not make them investment grade. And, if they were structured to be investment grade, the returns would be very low.
 
This was published this morning by Craig Johnson of Piper Sandler. His similar recommendation of TSLA in early 2013 led to my first purchase of its shares.

[snip snip sniiiiipppppppppp]

Thanks for the post. Looks like TSLA will likely continue trending upwards after this week. Today's sideways trading seems like accumulation for next week's to the moon trajectory.
 
Gigafactories as physical entities seem to be the largest Capex items. They are assuredly not that.
Elon, yesterday, said that factories should be smaller, that they should follow a path similar to that of chips. I do not recall the exact words. However, I am convinced that he gave a giant clue when he said Fremont could have a 50% production growth, while pointing out that it cannot grow physically. Doing what he said will require huge capex. In my opinion 'we ain't seen nothin' yet'.
I think the comments about them being similar to chips was a reference to the fact that chips have become more and more integrated. Modern electronics require a fraction of the number of discrete chips computers from just 5-10 years ago required.

Musk has hinted before about cars which are created the same way we create toys, hinting that they are investigating car designs which are not 3 big castings plus a body, but perhaps 3 big castings total. The car would essentially be cast in 3-4 big pieces which are bonded. Doors, trunks, hatches would be single castings.

Factories would be rows of various sized giga press style machines stamping out entire large assemblies. Instead of having hundreds of steps in an assembly line you would have 50-100 steps where the components are bonded together.

All of this would require a fraction of the space of current lines and the time to build each individual car would drop drastically, going from a pile of parts to a fully built car in just a couple hours. Paint becomes increasingly difficult to deal with though.
 
Oh I'm fairly certain such an event would be extremely beneficial for any TSLA shareholder, I was just wondering if we knew the mechanics of how it would (could) happen.
I don't know why Elon would want to do this. He isn't a fan of having his companies be public (I can understand why, particularly with Wall Street's behavior and the questions at the start of the shareholder meeting.)

So I don't know why he would voluntarily put more of his companies into that situation
 
Maybe a bit OT but I know that all of you are successful in your fields and maybe have some ideas for me.
I work as much as I possibly can (~110-115 hours a week) and invest everything I can into TSLA. Ever since my investing portfolio surpassed the multimillion dollar mark, I moved my goal to 8 figures. I can’t for the life of me, figure out how to get there though. Anyone have any ideas? Real estate and owning a business are the only other things I can think of at this point. But I’m not so sure about either of those.
I know it’s not all about money, and I’m so so grateful for everything I have, but I think…”if so many people in the world figured out how to achieve 8 figures within a few years, maybe I can too.”

Here’s one strategy though not quite what you asked for.
  • Continue to focus, ideally in a state of flow, on your primary work and, if possible, grow where you’re planted. Trying to learn to trade options while carrying your workload seems like a recipe for disaster on both the work and financial fronts. Perhaps use of margin makes sense (I’ve never used it), if that doesn’t disrupt your equilibrium and your sleep.
  • Set your TSLA purchases on automatic with each paycheck.
  • Ignore Tesla in the news so as to avoid that waiting for the pot to boil feeling.
  • Maintain your health and fitness.
The point being to allow time to pass more quickly—by not dwelling on the minutiae and by focusing your attention where it does the most good—and to be in good shape when you reach your goal.

tl;dr: Patience. A way to practice.
 
Last edited:
This was published this morning by Craig Johnson of Piper Sandler. His similar recommendation of TSLA in early 2013 led to my first purchase of its shares.

View attachment 719198
View attachment 719200

Here is a video in which Craig Johnson explains his chart and commentary which I posted here earlier. He's followed by another analyst bullish on TSLA.

 
Last edited:
This is why I just buy and hold. When you all talk options, puts, calls, etc. I just see…..}%]^^~€~€~€{€{[^~%%] 😅

Recommend you keep it that way unless you’re just bored.

If I had been able to put in as much as you when I first started investing in TSLA I’d have done absolutely nothing other than play dead. It worked out ok thanks to a crazy 2020 but I got nearly wiped out several times along the way and it’s not an experience I’d care to repeat.

The great thing about TSLA is it’s such an exciting and entertaining company to just buy and hold…most long-term investments can be a little like watching paint dry. That helps keep some of the thrill-seeking at bay. And you will very likely reach your financial goals without doing anything else given what you’ve stated about your current situation.
 
Maybe a bit OT but I know that all of you are successful in your fields and maybe have some ideas for me.
I work as much as I possibly can (~110-115 hours a week) and invest everything I can into TSLA. Ever since my investing portfolio surpassed the multimillion dollar mark, I moved my goal to 8 figures. I can’t for the life of me, figure out how to get there though. Anyone have any ideas? Real estate and owning a business are the only other things I can think of at this point. But I’m not so sure about either of those.
I know it’s not all about money, and I’m so so grateful for everything I have, but I think…”if so many people in the world figured out how to achieve 8 figures within a few years, maybe I can too.”

I think you will be surprised how wealthy you will become if you just keep doing what you are doing for several more years. If you want it faster than that, and you don't want to take on excessive risk, I can't help you.

You say you understand that "money isn't everything" but I question whether you fully embrace that. Remember to keep your eye on the ball. And in this case, the ball is life happiness. More money than you already have will not increase your happiness further (it might even reduce it). Spend less, live more. Money does not equal self-worth or make a life fulfilling no matter how much some people tell themselves it will.

Aw so true!!!! Thank you putting it all in perspective for me.
I don’t plan on doing anything differently from what I am doing. I just thought maybe there was something “more” I’m missing. But it seems to me like maybe this, being the best I can everyday in my career, being wise with money, and investing aggressively in TSLA, is truly good enough. 😊
OK, we are obviously not at the same stage in life. BUT: (warning, wisdom incoming) -- this has recently dawned upon me.
If you have 200k or 500k in {currency} can make a big difference to your life quality, especially early in life.
If however you have 12M, 15M or 30 M in {currency} is essentially a nothingburger. Makes no significant difference.
Once past that hurdle, you can concentrate on the really essential aspects of life and maximize those. Try it.

And that my friends concludes this week's FinZen.
GLTA and have a good one, all <3

(Yeah I got lucky. Or gambled well. Or saw the signs on Wall St the wall.) Emulate, execute. Prosper.

Edit: As others have contributed: play dead. Buy & hold.