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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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This is going slightly OT but since this is Sunday *and* it's a special weekend .. adding some details for those apparently interested:

1/ the first huge profit making "discovery" was made by mathematically trained Martin Leibowitz at Salomon Brothers in the 70's - arbitraging bonds along the yield curve. This gave rise to Salomon Bros eminence in Wall St at the time. Conceptually this yield curve arbitrage is elementary math, but you had to be trading bonds to realize the profits.

2/ Ed Thorp, initially an established "pure" mathematician famously applied math to beat the casinos regularly in the 60's, then moved on to the stock market, successfully too. Sadly, now retired he's all in dumb Omaha Buffet's BRK.A
For kicks I've put in attachment his neat intro to Kelly's criteria for optimum allocation of investments in favorable conditions. I must confess, as a mathematician by training, I've done more seat of the pants allocation ("bet more the more certain you are", which is probably quantifiable/ provable .. anyone interested please go ahead do the math formalisation, my todo pile is way too large already)

...
Beginning in 1969I was introduced to M. Leibowitz, with more detail when doing my PhD at NYU. His work and preceding casino work by several people had huge impact, primarily in helping market makers, including casinos, more accurately manage risks, hence increasing profits.

What almost all students of this work and the Meton-Scholes etc developments is that their approaches, every single one of them, depended on two things: 1. All of these are inherently stochastic, thus only work with quite large data sets. 2. They are built to be predictive. The first one means that the primary beneficiaries will be market makers and casinos. The second one raises the justifiably dreaded "Boundary conditiosn".

As I have mentioned before I had the misfortune of working on moped of LTCM and AIG. My hero, people I had studied, learned from and nearly deified, walked blithely into territory they did know would cause their models to fail. Those two entities became so dominant in their respective arenas that they themselves became victims of their own success.

There is an old saw that I learned from my last thesis advisor:
Some is good,
More is better,
Only too much is enough.

Since that time I worked on derivative design, primarily related to FX and bond markets. The team of which I was a part all came from the same places as the earlier mavens did, and repeated several fo the same mistakes. Creating a security to arbitrage Kuwait Dinar vs US$ and Japanese Yen should have alerted us to the high probability that the market was not deep enough to allow anything stochastic to work. Due to our stupid luck our entire business was purchased by an (in) famous huge European bank. It did not work out so well for them.

Retail investors over and over think they can consistently beat markets by using increasingly sophisticated (check out the etymology, that is NOT a compliment) models. By the nature fo such models, all stochastic models in fact, depend on continuing the same conditions that applied in the model development sample. No matter the wonderful Nobel Prize winning advances are, all end out being stochastic. (check out the etymology of stochastic, then the defintion. The former os from the Greek for 'guess'. The latter dresses up 'guess' by referring to random probability distributions.

There are two reason why retail investors never win consistently:
First, the only way any of these tools work si the law of large numbers. That means the 'house' wins, while the eventual losers brag about their wins and their sure systems.
Second, even for the 'house' there are not consistent wins. There are countless cases. The problem is that most of them end out blaming fraud, often legitimate, but a huge causal factor enabled the fraud, that was excessive dependence on stochastic models:

A handful of such names:
American Express and the great sale oil swindle,
AIG,
Lehman Brothers,
LTCM,
Bank of America NT&SA
Wachovia Bank

The list goes on. A common thread is over dependence on stochastic, inattention of boundary conditions and blind faith in very, very smart sophists.

Not for one second do I think I man expert. I have, however, worked on the mop of several of the ones in the list above. Every one was deeply populated by people far smarter and articulate than am I.

On the other hand, I did learn that it makes zero sense to play in a rigged game or one populated by decision-makers who ignore basic facts.

Over the decades that somewhat jaundiced view has been productive for me.
One key thing it does is make me obsessive to understand everything I possibly can about an investment I make. If I am uncertain, I sell. That makes me hold very few equities, and necessarily so, because I cannot understand enough things to 'diversify'. Right now, for example, I own three securities. Obviously one of them is TSLA.

My last point. It is unbelievably fun to deal in derivatives, puts, calls and every other choice, all are addictive. As gamblers know, it is an adrenaline rush to win. It is almost irresistible to minimize losses. Think about that before playing this game. Lotteries, Casinos and derivative securities markets are all working on the same basis. In the first two any rational person understand that. With securities markets people keep ignoring that market makers have minimal supervision, and the system is structured to allow them to hide their own losses. It'snot for nothing that one such trick is called "the Madoff Rule". When the originator makes the rules can you win consistently?


Check these out for reference:
 
With each new FSD update the videos I watch make me think it's further away from wide release. Still failing at commonly seen situations such as tipped over construction cones and driving in the parking lane in Rob's video.
I am getting reports from folks here in Atlanta that this release appears to be very buggy...dangerously so in some cases. Hopefully they will work through all this quickly and get on to greater levels of performance. I tell you one thing, those folks that are dealing with these releases and bugs have to be under huge levels of stress. I wish I could send them a big shipment of Xanax or something. LOL! Immense respect for the entire FSD team.

First time I am glad to be at 98 instead of 99!

I wonder if this will impact the stock tomorrow. Thoughts?

Dan
 
Whee .. hearing Dave's interview -with the newly self disclosed Tesla whale, third largest private investor (behind Elon and Larry) - who bought more than a million options or shares on Friday. Dave: " .. and what options did you buy, long term options? " ... Leo ".. some January options, because believe it or not, I don't have enough money" .. bah wha wha .. what I did too LOL (plus a few even shorter term ones, bought earlier tho, so they were medium term ones)
And apparently he hasn't heard of the options (ex Wheel) thread.
He bought @ 905 to 908 3:12 in the video - calling our specialists here, @Papafox in particular- could he have been the sole agent creating that last spurt at the Friday close?

 
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Today there are many posts on clipping coupons, living within means, and so forth. So, the old saying is true: "The richer we are, the more frugal we are" :cool: I used to buy things that I want. These days, I only buy things that I need ....
I'm the same way but I think that comes with age a bit too. Today I'll tend to make do with what I have far longer rather than buy something new and shiny to replace it. I also have cleaned out more closets and thrown out more junk in my house in the past few years than I have in the past few decades, if I haven't used it in five years then I don't need it!

But then this way of thinking is what allowed me to be disciplined enough to invest heavily into TSLA instead of buying various motorcycles or fancy furniture or replace my car every two years. It's worked for me so it's hard to let it go even though I certainly can afford to open the wallet a tad.
 
Think of it the other way around: All the people that jumped in actually caused the stock to 10x. You would be more annoyed if they didn’t jump in.
True story, if no one is buying ATHs then stock will never go up. Not everyone is meant to get rich buying stock. Few people buys in when no one wants it(hence its at a discount). It's not like it was some black Friday sale in which demand was high for the stock while its on a discount. That will never happen when it's based on an auction based system.
 
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Tesla Margins - Causing Investors to Stop and Take Notice

View attachment 725031

This is quite remarkable
Tesla exited 2020 with a 20.7% margin in Q4 (excluding reg credits).
In 2021 they methodically started their margin climb with Q1 at 22%, Q2 at 25.8% and Q3 at 28.8%.
A climb of 8.1 percentage points in a 9 month period. Let me type that again, "A climb of 8.1 percentage points in a 9 month period".
And consider this: The margin improvements came despite factories running at 75% capacity, chips/parts shortages, raw material price increases, logistics cost increases and margin hits from the model S&X refresh.
I did some digging and most of the margin increases came from reduced costs (not selling price increases) largely from the Shanghai ramp.
Much of the recent selling price increases have not shown up in these margins yet. Those are attached to orders to be delivered in the future - further improving margins.

Where do we go from here?
We go higher.
There is some concern that the low margins from ramping Austin/Berlin sites will hurt margins in Q1 and Q2. However, offsetting the Austin/Berlin ramp margins will be improved margins from Shanghai, improved Model S&X margins and some selling price increases made months ago on the 3&Y in the US starting to show up in sales. We may see a small dip in Q4 as sometimes companies make some year end adjustments that distort the Qtr but over the next 4 quarters, Tesla should continue with margin increases.

Another offset for Berlin is that logistics will be much cheaper on every vehicle coming of Berlin. No ships needed to service the surrounding countries, no ports where cars have to load/offload, no duties/import taxes, etc.....

I also have a hunch Austin is going to ramp more quickly that expected. At least ramp to the point where vehicles coming out of Austin are not a net negative on margins.
 
This statement is such a meme but it is absolutely true.

Once you break through that first million, the second and third just kind of show up and you have no idea how that happened.
I'm having a very difficult time BELIEVING that $600,000 is really available to me. I am already in the "no idea how that happened."
 
Another offset for Berlin is that logistics will be much cheaper on every vehicle coming of Berlin. No ships needed to service the surrounding countries, no ports where cars have to load/offload, no duties/import taxes, etc.....

I also have a hunch Austin is going to ramp more quickly that expected. At least ramp to the point where vehicles coming out of Austin are not a net negative on margins.
I thought Tesla makes customers pay for transportation? After giga Berlin fully ramped, I think purchase price in Europe will be in line with US price.
 
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Personally, I think the margin will be stable or dip a bit starting next year due to giga Berlin and Texas ramps, and will be back on track for further improvement second half of next year. I hope I am wrong.
You could be right but I looked at Shanghai's ramp and it really had no impact on margins.
We saw a very slight dip in Q1 2020 when Shanghai came on board (just a 0.3% dip on the Model 3 margin) but much of that had to do with reduced production in Fremont (104k in Q4 vs 86k in Q1 as Covid shutdown Fremont in mid-March).

However, in using Shanghai as a proxy, I may be overlooking the fact that Labor & Overhead costs will be higher in Berlin/Austin than we had in Shanghai and we are dealing with 2 inefficient ramping sites instead of one.

Zach did make some comments on margins as there are "unknown unknowns", but I sense they are putting pieces in place to produce increasing margins (Model X ramp and US price increases).
 
I'm having a very difficult time BELIEVING that $600,000 is really available to me. I am already in the "no idea how that happened."

Probably the biggest mind trip (in a good way) is my situation where I spent so much of my free time over the past 12-13 years doing due diligence/research, essentially learning how to break down earnings and metrics, putting all free spending money into investments, double down multiple times in TSLA using leverage like HELOCS and loans (Q1 2019, Q2 2019, March 2020, Q1/Q2 2021) and dealing with the stress and lack of sleep around those moments...................only to get an offer from a certain company 2 years ago that will be IPO'ing next year that will double my net worth (that equity + my TSLA investment).

It's a bizarre feeling to work so hard for something and then just have a once in a lifetime opportunity plop itself down on your doorstep that kinda nullifies that hard work. It's an amazing position to be in. I'm grateful and that equity is going to pretty much let me exercise the mountain of now ITM LEAPS I have and convert them to shares. Which will increase my net worth even more. It's amazing how the timing is lining up.
 
I thought Tesla makes customers pay for transportation? After giga Berlin fully ramped, I think purchase price in Europe will be in line with US price.

No, the cost of logistics is in the price of the Model Y over in Europe. You're thinking of the small "Destination and Doc Fee". That's not what I'm talking about. Considering for 1-2 quarters Model Y deliveries in Europe will be a mix of Shanghai made and Berlin made and since the Model Y has just only started deliveries in Europe, I doubt Tesla will adjust the Model Y price for all of 2022.
 
However, in using Shanghai as a proxy, I may be overlooking the fact that Labor & Overhead costs will be higher in Berlin/Austin than we had in Shanghai and we are dealing with 2 inefficient ramping sites instead of one.
True but, Austin/Berlin will be making front and back casting which Shanghai still doesn't fully do (I believe they still only do rear castings). So that right here will reduce labor per vehicle made. Plus I have to think the in Berlin/Austin they've probably reduce needed labor through more robot usage and/or new methods that overall don't need labor for.
 
No, the cost of logistics is in the price of the Model Y over in Europe. You're thinking of the small "Destination and Doc Fee". That's not what I'm talking about. Considering for 1-2 quarters Model Y deliveries in Europe will be a mix of Shanghai made and Berlin made and since the Model Y has just only started deliveries in Europe, I doubt Tesla will adjust the Model Y price for all of 2022.
I understand there is no "transportation" line item like the destination and doc fees. If comparable car costs more in Europe compared to US, it may mean the cost of logistics already baked into it. I don't have a way to check the price in Europe.
 
I understand there is no "transportation" line item like the destination and doc fees. If comparable car costs more in Europe compared to US, it may mean the cost of logistics already baked into it. I don't have a way to check the price in Europe.
I don't understand then what you're trying to say then. Logistic costs are baked into well logistics. Just because Tesla lowers/eliminates some of their logistics costs doesn't mean they have to lower the price of the vehicle. Those savings will go to profits/margin, which is what I'm pointing out. Each market has it's own logistics costs/overhead and that's why Tesla prices their vehicles differently in different markets.
 
TL;DR - Austin and Berlin will have a HUGE positive impact on gross vehicle profit margin; but overtime.

Logistics and supply chain efficiency improvement take time to fully realize (Tesla can pull this off faster than other companies as they are way more agile) so I'd expect 3 to 4 quarters. Locally sourced parts will drive down costs, obviously giga press front and back as well as 4680 structural pack improves build time, BOM (Bill of Materials), manufacturing complexity, lowers weight..etc.

Also, I'd expect that Tesla/Elon are targeting to implement new ideas in other high lead time, high cost, high turnover items like harnesses, relays, cabling of any kind, connectors to also further improve manufacturing speed and lower manufacturing complexities. I absolutely love the idea of they've re-imagined how to get the seats in the vehicle by attaching directly to the structural battery pack. Should be a huge improvement across the board to assemble the cabin space. I remember at Fremont back in 2014 how hard it was to get the camera installed in the windshield after the headliner was installed. The tech had to crawl inside the cabin, without seats, so awkward, connect to the harness, route the wire inside housing and then glue/sealant onto the windshield. Ugh, we changed this so quickly as it was causing issues with calibration.

And the coup de grâce exoskeleton for CT will be immense to the bottom line. I'm so jealous of those working on this...oh if I were in my 20's again, I'd be all over that!

It will be so exciting to see 4680's constructed from raw materials at both factories; hopefully sometime next year.