Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Unpilot]

Some nice volume at open

 

[StealthP3D]

The credit/rebate would likely only apply to individual taxpayers and not corporations.

I think so. Fortunately, corporations are still not people for tax purposes! The fact that Hertz is paying full price (at current higher prices) just highlights how Tesla is in the driver's seat as to who gets their cars and how much they cost. I expect this to continue for some time. It's the best kind of demand problem if you are Tesla.

Personally, I find it confusing that TSLAQ considers this demand problem a problem for Tesla when it's actually a problem for those who don't have a Tesla but want one. If TSLAQ members were any dumber, their brains would forget to tell their lungs to keep breathing and their heart to keep beating and they would just collapse into a pile of motionless flesh!

 

[Ohmster]

Presented to you for your morning guffaw.

GM can 'absolutely' catch Tesla in EV sales by 2025, says CEO Mary Barra — CNBC

GM CEO Mary Barra told CNBC the automaker can "absolutely" catch Tesla in U.S. EV sales by 2025 with its planned electric vehicles, including a Hummer pickup.

apple.news

 

[StealthP3D]

Tesla has a demand problem. Way too much demand. This actually gives an opening to its competitors: if people want an EV and don’t want to wait, some of them will buy another EV even though it’s a poor second choice for them.

Tesla needs to be ramping production too fast to rely on opening new gigafactories in new cities, which requires long lead times for planning, land acquisition and approval. I anticipate that it will just expand its Austin, Berlin and Shanghai facilities as fast as possible. Theoretically, it could be churning out 10 million vehicles annually from those three locations by 2025. And even with that they might not meet demand.

They have the land at those locations to expand, and it only takes them a year to replicate another factory on that land.

As the man says: “Let’s Go!”

Exactly! In a nutshell, this is why Tesla is a "screaming buy", even now that we are at $1000. The production numbers are going to grow so fast that Ford and GM will be like, "what?". And you can probably guess what this will do to margins! Things are going to get crazy within a year.

 

[MP3Mike]

Imagine dealerships getting rebates from Ford/GM and then turning around selling that to a consumer (hopefully also getting a rebate).

Maybe you don't remember dealers selling Volts to each other, claiming the tax credit, and then selling them as used vehicles where the actual owner couldn't claim the tax credit.

UPDATE: Dealers Pocketing $7,500 Chevy Volt Tax Credit?

UPDATE: Several sources have reported that the practice described below appears to be confined to a few isolated incidents, if at all, and a General Motors spokesman called the NLPC 'confused.' The NLPC meanwhile in a follow-up cried foul on GM's claim that there's "high demand" for the Volt and...

www.thecarconnection.com

 

[StealthP3D]

On CNBC... Mark Fields did his best to say other manufacturers still have a chance, but wasn't very convincing IMO.

Then Mary Barra came on and Phil LeBeau asked her a lot of quite tough questions. Her answers weren't very strong IMO.

Barra's answers are never very strong but they play well with most Americans who don't know what's going on.

 

[t153]

Monday I was happy because the Hertz deal meant more people in EV seats (and Tesla seats specifically ) and that is great to get relatively skeptical people used to EVs; plus it should counter the argument a bit that the 4.2 B deal doesn’t warrant a rise the market cap of more than 4.2 B. But now the deal with Uber is great in itself regarding the number of butts in seats. Hertz rents out a car a number of times per month, but the number of people traveling with an Uber per month is most likely larger. Also, it may soften up skeptical people or with a dislike for Elon/Tesla who wouldn’t elect to rent a Tesla as they are probably not going to reject their Uber ride when it shows up as a Tesla.

This is precisely the reason why I decided to start doing a little ubering in my own model s about a month ago.

So far I've done a 100 rides and everybody is super impressed by the car! I have definitely converted some people over by just talking about the overall ownership experience, mobile ranger service, supercharging network, lack of maintenance, cheap electricity, speed of charging in the newer cars and so on. Tons of people have never even been in a tesla before, but even those that have, were not aware of all the positive points. This is in a major US metropolitan area too, where we have teslas all over the place - I was really surprised by the the fact that so many people have never even been in one.

 

[Rarity]

Sorry, I can't see how anyone is getting "cut into" Tesla's business. Tesla sells product. Buyers use it as they see fit.
Who mentioned any link to Tesla Network from Hertz or Uber?
How is Tesla suddenly a captive.

I don't see what you mean at all.

Over the years, Musk Inc. has thrived by vertically integrated operations. All the way from Musk's imagination to the end consumer. Hertz, Carvana, Uber, and Uber drivers are not end consumers. They are all middle men that five years from now will not provide a valuable service to Tesla or end consumers.

Tesla is entering into an environment that constrains how it operates. If Tesla gives a dollar to the Hertzes of the world, politically speaking it is difficult to stop giving dollars to the Hertzes on a regular basis. And then Tesla has to do special things for the Hertzes because Tesla is not allowed to compete with the Hertzes.

The sensible thing to do is just to not give dollars to the Hertzes of the world in the first place. Problem solved.

 

[Gigapress]

Presented to you for your morning guffaw.

GM can 'absolutely' catch Tesla in EV sales by 2025, says CEO Mary Barra — CNBC

GM CEO Mary Barra told CNBC the automaker can "absolutely" catch Tesla in U.S. EV sales by 2025 with its planned electric vehicles, including a Hummer pickup.

apple.news

Interested to see how they intend to make profit on an "Equinox-sized product for $30k" by 2025

 

[Artful Dodger]

Hey @Artful Dodger - I'm just watching the PM orders passing by and see loads of single-share trades from "TRF", which indicated non-exchange

So that implies to me Hedgies manipulating, right?

It was the sam in AH yesterday, singe share after single share on "TRF"

View attachment 726281

Dunno, I'd defer to our exchange geeks (in the best way) like @Boomer19 and others. Google search points at this document:

FINRA/Nasdaq Trade Reporting Facility (ACT Technology)

"The FINRA Trade Reporting Facility (TRF) operated in partnership with FINRA/Nasdaq TRF is an automated trade reporting and reconciliation service operated on the Nasdaq ACT technology platform.​

​

"The Nasdaq TRF electronically facilitates trade reporting, trade comparison and clearing of trades for all U.S. equities The TRF handles transactions negotiated broker-to-broker, or internalized within a firm.​

​

"The Nasdaq TRF offers the industry standard for all a firm’s trade reporting compliance needs, and currently services over 88% market share in the post-trade market and over 30% of consolidated market share (Source: NasdaqTrader.com).​

This indicates TRF could could be used for dark pool trading, or broker-to-broker trades, but at that kind of tiny volume? I think more likely its some satellite exchange allowing after-hrs trading, but that's purely a guess.

Good luck, let us know what you find out.

Cheers!

 

[StealthP3D]

Germany's (and EU's) environmental laws aim to protect the environment in a general sense but also - and this is the emphasis - to prevent harm to the surrounding land and/or population.

In Belgium there is the current 3M - scandal. The company 3M has greatly polluted an area of at least 15 kilometers in diameter around its facilities in the city of Zwijndrecht. The pollution (mainly by a chemical called PFOS) has been kept under wraps, even after the local government knew about it since 2017. Only this summer (June 2021) the pollution was discovered merely by accident (huge roadworks in the region have uncovered this). Since June tests have pointed out that the population around the 3M site has huge traces of PFOS in their blood, way more than medically allowed/healthy. The effects are still up for debate, but in the long term cancer is the most likely outcome.

Now everyone is pointing the finger at everyone else, but the basic fact of the matter is that it was widely known since the seventies that PFOS was a hazardous pollutant. 3M disregarded public health purely to maximize profit/minimize costs. This is the same mindset you show forth in your comment "It's Tesla's factory, let them do what they want."

The building is indeed owned by Tesla, but that doesn't give one free reign to do as one pleases. Your "rights" (in this case the right of Tesla to produce and make a profit) are to be balanced against the rights of others (to live in a world with as little pollution as possible). The liberty of one person/company ends where the liberty of the other begins.

So the permits are not nonsense. Surely the needle can sometimes lean too much towards bureaucracy but I prefer that scenario over lawlessness, where hasty decisions lead to abuse by bad actors and a society picking up the pieces years later. (Case in point: the Volkswagen emission scandal)

I agree that government's role is to take a firm hand when it comes to preventing companies from polluting in such manner. But it's well established that any operating company can be halted if previously unknown environmental or health impacts are discovered. So, they should let Tesla start manufacturing and only stop them if undisclosed impacts are discovered. Environmental regulation is an on-going task, not one that is completed when they approve a project.

 

[matejpi]

Launch number 2 to test 1100$ heights...

 

[EVMeister]

Tesla is entering into an environment that constrains how it operates. If Tesla gives a dollar to the Hertzes of the world, politically speaking it is difficult to stop giving dollars to the Hertzes on a regular basis. And then Tesla has to do special things for the Hertzes because Tesla is not allowed to compete with the Hertzes.

The sensible thing to do is just to not give dollars to the Hertzes of the world in the first place. Problem solved.

I think you are confused about who is giving dollars to whom in this transaction.

 

[Mengy]

Over the years, Musk Inc. has thrived by vertically integrated operations. All the way from Musk's imagination to the end consumer. Hertz, Carvana, Uber, and Uber drivers are not end consumers. They are all middle men that five years from now will not provide a valuable service to Tesla or end consumers.

Tesla is entering into an environment that constrains how it operates. If Tesla gives a dollar to the Hertzes of the world, politically speaking it is difficult to stop giving dollars to the Hertzes on a regular basis. And then Tesla has to do special things for the Hertzes because Tesla is not allowed to compete with the Hertzes.

The sensible thing to do is just to not give dollars to the Hertzes of the world in the first place. Problem solved.

This makes zero sense. Hertz needs cars to rent, they want to use EV's. Tesla makes and sells EV's, so Hertz is buying EV's from Tesla.

It's very straight forward and I don't understand what you are saying here, can you explain your problem with this in more detail?

 

[Krugerrand]

Over the years, Musk Inc. has thrived by vertically integrated operations. All the way from Musk's imagination to the end consumer. Hertz, Carvana, Uber, and Uber drivers are not end consumers. They are all middle men that five years from now will not provide a valuable service to Tesla or end consumers.

Tesla is entering into an environment that constrains how it operates. If Tesla gives a dollar to the Hertzes of the world, politically speaking it is difficult to stop giving dollars to the Hertzes on a regular basis. And then Tesla has to do special things for the Hertzes because Tesla is not allowed to compete with the Hertzes.

The sensible thing to do is just to not give dollars to the Hertzes of the world in the first place. Problem solved.

You’re looking for a problem where there isn’t one.

 

[JoRoMo]

Over the years, Musk Inc. has thrived by vertically integrated operations. All the way from Musk's imagination to the end consumer. Hertz, Carvana, Uber, and Uber drivers are not end consumers. They are all middle men that five years from now will not provide a valuable service to Tesla or end consumers.

Tesla is entering into an environment that constrains how it operates. If Tesla gives a dollar to the Hertzes of the world, politically speaking it is difficult to stop giving dollars to the Hertzes on a regular basis. And then Tesla has to do special things for the Hertzes because Tesla is not allowed to compete with the Hertzes.

The sensible thing to do is just to not give dollars to the Hertzes of the world in the first place. Problem solved.

I think Elon just straightforward sold the cars, he has no reason for accepting a «non-compete» clause or anything in that direction.

 

[Rarity]

This makes zero sense. Hertz needs cars to rent, they want to use EV's. Tesla makes and sells EV's, so Hertz is buying EV's from Tesla.

It's very straight forward and I don't understand what you are saying here, can you explain your problem with this in more detail?

No, it is not straightforward. Tesla sells very valuable software with its EVs that competes with Hertz's and Uber's businesses.

 

[Unpilot]

Some people be like this.

 

[Prunesquallor]

Launch number 2 to test 1100$ heights...

I’d settle for half-way and staying there.

 

[Mengy]

No, it is not straightforward. Tesla sells very valuable software with its EVs that competes with Hertz's and Uber's businesses.

What software would that be? Can you name it please?