Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Knightshade]

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Thanks, prompted me to check my phone, downloading now


One interesting thing, 10% of currently owned shares is ~17 million shares.... the math on the options stuff suggested he needs to sell about 12 million (of the ~24 million he'd gain exercising the expiring next year tranches)


If we assume Elon isn't terrible at math, which seems a fair assumption- he wouldn't sell ANY of his existing shares (because that'd cost 20% extra in taxes compared to selling the new ones).

So he'd exercise, sell ~12 million to cover taxes... then another 5 I guess?

Unless he's doing the 10% from after exercise, in which case 12 mil for taxes, plus he'd sell another ~7.4 mil shares from the new options tranches.... leaving him with... net about 4.6 million shares more than he had to start with.

And also giving him roughly 9 billion in cash? (I mean probably less if SP takes a hit before sale, but we're spitballing here)

I think he's got something like 500ish million in outstanding debt from borrowing against shares, guess he could pay that off...and also repay the 100+ mil he'd have borrowed for initial options exercise.

Still, leaves him north of 8 billion in cash sitting around to do something with.


I dunno- anybody got a good cure world hunger plan or something? I've heard you can do that with only 6...




EDIT- Wait, I've got it!

With the 8 billion he's gonna join the "other" thread, use it to sell spreads for the next few years- and thus have enough cash on hand to pay all the taxes on his SECOND big group of options tranches he'll need to start exercising around 2028!

 

[SOULPEDL]

What makes you think that Starlink privacy and security are in any way inferior to what 3G/LTE/5G provides?

Fair question, not labeling any protocols here, "cell" was all I meant, and not even stating what data is needed. Admiting it's a "solution looking for a problem", so I'll just tuck the concept away for now.
Anyway, Starlink to vehicle connection seems plausible this way - possibly more secure, better, or just Tesla different. And FAST.

 

[buttershrimp]

Can we somehow manage to combine two ideas?

1.) Elon is awesome.
2.) Elon can make dumb AF tweets and plays right into the hands of TSLAQ and funds who want to do some damage (poor uncle Leo)

If you want to incentivize stock options for Giga Berlin and Giga Texas, dilute the stock and give them more shares. More sensible than achieving it through an intentional tank and go look - now it's only 900. You'll see 1200 again. 33% free equity. LOL

and here's the opinion of someone whom is universally respected in the Tesla space.

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Thank you for saying this. It’s getting frustrating read Tesla fans twist themselves in knots trying to make Elon’s move into a brilliant act of genius….

There is no one I respect and admire more than Elon Musk…. But this was stupid, not genius, and even if it is some brilliant “4 dimensional chess”, it makes me think Paul Krugman isn’t too far off.

 

[larmor]

aBiden

 

[Skipdd]

I started with Bell Labs and we were sold off eventually passing though post Jack GE.

Bell Labs had better research that was also more connected to the customer. We also had better volleyball and operating systems that just worked. AT&T was arrogant and not very good at business and had institutionalized hiding costs.

The GE system disconnected research from the customer. I expected more. But understand that Jack messed it up. Too much hierarchy. Not flat like Bell Labs. Thank you for explaining that Jack messed it up. Mystery solved.

OT. interesting, will reach out in a PM about your experience.

I don’t think Bell Labs was ever part of GE. When AT&T spun Lucent out (my second divestiture), Lucent took Bell Labs with it. Eventually, Alcatel bought Lucent, and Bell Labs became Alcatel-Bell Labs. Then Nokia bought the new company and Bell Labs became Nokia Bell Labs. You can read more about the sad demolition on wikipedia - Bell Labs - Wikipedia . Parts of Bell Labs were placed into the original companies with the initial split; resources working on applied research for AT&T, moved to AT&T, while resources working on applied research associated with Lucent’s scope moved to Lucent. The core research (core science) stayed with Lucent. Even though the bright firmament of the full Bell Labs was lost, the individual groups still had great resources who were highly valued by their new companies. I know because I worked with them whenever I got the chance.

 

[StealthP3D]

I defer to your towering intellect.

I just don't get why you think you have any business judging Elon's personal financial decisions. It's his choice to make. It's not a corporate decision and it doesn't affect the corporation. Insiders sell more than that all the time. If you don't like it, you don't have to invest in companies he is CEO of.

 

[StealthP3D]

People following Tesla closely are probably the first to hear about this tweet and many of them will vote no. The mass media will now run with the news and that’s when the general public starts voting. A large part of them don’t like billionaires and will likely vote yes, so I expect that to start going up. It may end up at 60% yes and 40% no. I hope I’m wrong.

Elon would not have made the tweet without knowing what the answer would be. Fear not.

 

[buttershrimp]

I just don't get why you think you have any business judging Elon's personal financial decisions. It's his choice to make. It's not a corporate decision and it doesn't affect the corporation. Insiders sell more than that all the time. If you don't like it, you don't have to invest in companies he is CEO of.

Yeah, but it’s not the same, you don’t have to love it or leave it. Regardless, this was just sort of stupid of Elon. Sometimes he does stupid stuff. I do stupid stuff like 30 times a day. He does stupid stuff like once every 30 days. That’s not a bad record. I am envious of that stupidity rate.

But when he does something stupid, it’s ok to say so. Elon has plenty of opinions… so do the rest of us… doesn’t mean any of us should or shouldn’t sell shares.

Sometimes we just disagree with each other and that is fine.

 

[Jack6591]

I just don't get why you think you have any business judging Elon's personal financial decisions. It's his choice to make. It's not a corporate decision and it doesn't affect the corporation. Insiders sell more than that all the time. If you don't like it, you don't have to invest in companies he is CEO of.

With your permission, I’ll keep my shares. I have no intention of selling. Ever.

 

[StealthP3D]

With your permission, I’ll keep my shares. I have intention of selling.

That's a good way to run things. I won't tell you what to do with your shares and you don't tell Elon what to do with his.

And, to be clear, I meant you have the option to sell yours if you want. So does Elon.

 

[Jack6591]

That's a good way to run things. I won't tell you what to do with your shares and you don't tell Elon what to do with his.

I’m certain that someone with your intellect, grasps the basic fact that Elon asked the question himself.

 

[MXWing]

Keep in mind that me, mama Cathie, uncle Leo and Rob and @buttershrimp have five Twitter votes. (Anyone else in with us no?)

Gordon Johnson
Michael Burry
Lora Kolodny
Linnet Lopez
UAW union - all have zero stake in TSLA but are all voting yes.

Would be hilarious if the SEC puts in an injunction to prevent a stock sale.

Also, buy orders in for 1000 shares at 694.20.

Playing the cards I am dealt.

 

[MTL_HABS1909]

That's a good way to run things. I won't tell you what to do with your shares and you don't tell Elon what to do with his.

And, to be clear, I meant you have the option to sell yours if you want. So does Elon.

Except Elon asked. Get over yourself.

 

[Blue horseshoe]

Elon didn't give a time. Would be pretty funny to see him say the internet has spoken. I will be selling 10% of my shares. In 2030.

 

[buttershrimp]

That's a good way to run things. I won't tell you what to do with your shares and you don't tell Elon what to do with his.

Hey don’t tell me what to not tell Elon not to do with his shares! I have a complex plan for his share selling…. Involving arbitrage and an offshore tax shelter…. If I’m not allowed to tell him what to do…. Then you aren’t allowed to tell me what not to tell him what not to do!

 

[22522]

OT. interesting, will reach out in a PM about your experience.

I don’t think Bell Labs was ever part of GE. When AT&T spun Lucent out (my second divestiture), Lucent took Bell Labs with it. Eventually, Alcatel bought Lucent, and Bell Labs became Alcatel-Bell Labs. Then Nokia bought the new company and Bell Labs became Nokia Bell Labs. You can read more about the sad demolition on wikipedia - Bell Labs - Wikipedia . Parts of Bell Labs were placed into the original companies with the initial split; resources working on applied research for AT&T, moved to AT&T, while resources working on applied research associated with Lucent’s scope moved to Lucent. The core research (core science) stayed with Lucent. Even though the bright firmament of the full Bell Labs was lost, the individual groups still had great resources who were highly valued by their new companies. I know because I worked with them whenever I got the chance.

All the power conversion for the network was done out of Whippany and then Parsippany. They moved it to Texas. When Lucent needed money they sold it for 3 billion or some big number to Tyco, who sold it to a private equity company, who sold it to GE, who sold it to ABB. Andy Marsh who runs Plug Power ( hydrogen ) and his team were coworkers.

Case in point for your last statement.

Edit: We also did the first point of load (hi di/dt) devices for Intel Pentium to help them be successful avoiding brownouts with the low core voltage. Marketed as Titania.

 

[JRP3]

But when he does something stupid, it’s ok to say so.

Sure, but I don't think this is one of those times. I'm enjoying the chaos it's created, it was getting a little boring with the stock only going up.

 

[Skipdd]

All the power conversion for the network was done out of Whippany and then Parsippany. They moved it to Texas. When Lucent needed money they sold it for 3 billion or some big number to Tyco, who sold it to a private equity company, who sold it to GE, who sold it to ABB. Andy Marsh who runs Plug Power ( hydrogen ) and his team were coworkers.

Case in point for your last statement.

Interesting. I ended up in the part of Lucent that got spun out as Avaya (3rd divestiture). Not going through that history.

Let me tie all this back to Tesla. For those reading these posts, you can see the wreckage wrought by the break-up. It may have been good for the share-holders, but it destroyed most of the original companies and the crown-jewel research company Bell Labs. Lest you think AT&T survived, you’d be mistaken. It was bought by Southwestern Bell, which promptly took on its name.

THIS is why any break-up of Tesla by the government would be a disaster.

 

[mongo]

Sure, but I don't think this is one of those times. I'm enjoying the chaos it's created, it was getting a little boring with the stock only going up.

Friday was down (with swings to both sides).
Y'all in the US (most of it at least) enjoy the extra hour of sleep tonight.

 

[Mengy]

That's a good way to run things. I won't tell you what to do with your shares and you don't tell Elon what to do with his.

Except...I didn't see a post where Jack stated what Elon should or should not do with his own shares? I'm not sure why you are riding Jack so hard, to me it seems fairly misplaced on your part?


MODERATOR: This unsavory, unseemly and unnecessary 'discussion' is now ended. NO more input from the two principles, and NO more from bystanders.