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I would note he has spoken not so much about the EV subsidy in general which by any reasonable accounting of how much it will accelerate supply is an extraordinarily inefficient use of public funding, but in their favor. Elon is a cunning libertarian mind that is oriented to the long future. As such he is utilitarian as well. He will however play with the myths and lesser gods and direct the vox populi.
Government grants are sometimes used as part of the vetting process. They help prime the pump.

Musk knows and appreciates that. But he does not overpay.
 
The subsidy is alloted for 10 years so what is on the market now is rather specious.
Good thing, eh? That gives GM enough time to start the Bolt from scratch after it goes bankrupt first, reorganizes, sells 316 Hummers, all of which I’m betting will also be recalled at some point, Nikola produces that hydrogen semi, and Lordstown is sold to Apple for iCar production.
 
I don’t understand. I thought there was a total dollar value assigned and that Tesla would mop that up in 31 months?

It would be hilarious if after all this posturing by the "leader" they turn out to be too late for the party, their 20+ new EV models hits the market after the money has run out (hoovered up by the exponentially growing company ignored by the administration).
 
(On-topic weekend diversion)

Oftentimes in this thread, people coyly suggest how many shares they own, or at least how many they recently purchased ("Just picked up 50 more chairs on the dip!!"). Others give opinions evidently based on years of investing experience. I'm always curious about the experience behind all the opinions, and I'm guessing you are too. And - let's be honest - I want to know where my TSLA investments fit in compared to those of others on the forum! Well, guess no more.

..... TMC investor survey

This 10 multiple-choice question survey is in Google Forms because we need several questions to effectively profile the community. It's anonymous so I don't believe there's any way for someone to maliciously connect your response with your personal finances - in other words, you're not putting your investments at risk (anyone correct me if I'm wrong). Summary results are visible after completing.

Please fill in - thank you!

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Wow, thanks to 161 of you who've already completed the survey!

For those who have been reluctant to participate because of obligatory question 1 (@AudubonB , @Opus BC fan ?), I've added a "Prefer not to say" option (see below) if that helps.

So if you haven't participated yet, please do so here: TMC investors survey. Besides the automatic summaries shown after you complete the survey, I'll try and generate some analytics that corelate across some of the questions.


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Ofc there are, there's nothing free in life or business.


I remember reading the article you attached back in 2013. Based on the enormous success of Tesla, I would not be surprised if MoneyBox and Scott Woolley come out with new article claming the US government bungled investment in Tesla cost taxpayers more than $90B. The original title and sub title are screen captioned below (following text is mine).

Screen Shot 2021-11-27 at 10.14.51 AM.png



The above title and sub title are fraught with injustice.

In 2009 the U.S. Dept. of Energy lent Tesla $465M. Tesla paid back the loan early, with interest, and early payment penalty. Tesla went on to become enormously successful employing 100,000 tax payer jobs, the vast majority in the US, create a world wide EV charging infrastructure and single handedly turned the tide from ICE to BEV helping save our precious planet.

In 2009 the U.S. Dept. of Energy lent Solyndra $528M. They achieved nothing, went bankrupt, and defaulted on their loan shortly thereafter paying not a single cent back to the government.

Yet MoneyBox's Scott Woolley clearly stated that Tesla's result to the US government is twice as worse as that on Solyndra. As the article was written back in 2013 when Tesla was valued a $12B market cap, with that reasoning their Tesla investment is now 180X worse than that spent of Solyndra.

Yes, I get the point the author is trying to make, that US Goverment may have included some form of ownership of the company (in shares) to take on the high risk. However if these conditions were in place, perhaps Tesla would have sought money elsewhere from venture capitalists or others to keep it alive, so this is a mute point. But to compare and state Tesla is worse than Solyndra, and therefore Solyndra is better than Tesla, is a travesty of common sense.

Very glad that Tesla is not taking on the loan offered from Germany. Great move.
 
Wow, thanks to 161 of you who've already completed the survey!

For those who have been reluctant to participate because of obligatory question 1 (@AudubonB , @Opus BC fan ?), I've added a "Prefer not to say" option (see below) if that helps.

So if you haven't participated yet, please do so here: TMC investors survey. Besides the automatic summaries shown after you complete the survey, I'll try and generate some analytics that corelate across some of the questions.


View attachment 737941
a comment
1) my color vision is “strong deutan” (very red green weak) so I _think_ your color wheels pie charts start at 0 degrees and go clockwise…..
 
I think here is where I believe Tesla missed a trick by closing down the rail line/spur they had in Freemont factory. They could have loaded right into the train, unloaded/loaded right into RoRo in Boston and off to Europe. Would have cut down 10 days in shipping time and bet some costs too. Of course, fix the damn freight rail network in this country to make a cross country from SF to Boston/NY in less than 4 days.
Panamax auto carrier max ~ 7,000 car capacity
72.2% capacity through the Panama canal is a toll/fee of $677,500 - that comes to $134/car!
 
a comment
1) my color vision is “strong deutan” (very red green weak) so I _think_ your color wheels pie charts start at 0 degrees and go clockwise…..
Thanks @winfield100 .

Very valid point. The charts generated are Google Forms standard and not adjustable AFAIK. But I'm working on some analytics, and I'll try to make those charts more accessible.

I think the first pie slice actually starts at 45° (due East) and go clockwise from there, no?
 
Thank you. Just doesn’t seem to be moving very fast to mass roll out. My guess is a year or two yet.
I expect much sooner. The current level is very difficult to achieve. By Christmas I predict release for the next group simply because it was offered by EM himself and part of his plan to send the stock to the moon!
 
Just watched the first 1m45s of a 14 minute CNBC video. Link below.

Quotes:
Tesla dominates in the U.S.
Tesla Model 3 selling well in the Europe
VW market share of EV is 26%

Michael Wayland - Automotive Reporter, CNBC
VW's ambitions for EV are global and they are ambitious.
They really want to go all-in on EV.
They are, like everyone else, gunning for Tesla

William Boston - Wall Street Journal *June 21, 2019*
EU auto makers have to sell more EV as new emission targets loom

Tom Narayan - Lead Equity Analyst, European Autos - RBC Capital Markets
VW has no choice but to fully and aggressively pursue the strategy in Europe
Tesla's Berlin factory has not started it factor yet.
So, it is really a timing issue.
VW just started selling more aggressively in Europe and China and the U.S.
[My reading: VW is trying to sell as many EV as possible before GigaBerlin starts, even if their margins are low, before Tesla takes over more of the market]

Stephanie Brinley - Principle Analyst, Americas, IHS Markit
They have a lot of vehicles coming, and it takes time for people to understand that it's there, and aware of it and want to consider it.
It is not necessarily that someone will not consider an EV that is not from Tesla. In some cases, they don't even know it is there.

Stopped watching.

I think the video director intended to create a picture of how VW is struggling to sell their EVs agaist Tesla in Europe. But the producer slapped a title of "Why Volkswagen Is Beating Tesla In Europe" on it. Seems like there is a conflict internally within CNBC between their marketing department and their news department on what message they are trying to send to their ad customers vs their viewers on what is going on with VW's struggle against Tesla.
 
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