Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[OrthoSurg]

I remember reading the article you attached back in 2013. Based on the enormous success of Tesla, I would not be surprised if MoneyBox and Scott Woolley come out with new article claming the US government bungled investment in Tesla cost taxpayers more than $90B. The original title and sub title are screen captioned below (following text is mine).

View attachment 737948


The above title and sub title are fraught with injustice.

In 2009 the U.S. Dept. of Energy lent Tesla $465M. Tesla paid back the loan early, with interest, and early payment penalty. Tesla went on to become enormously successful employing 100,000 tax payer jobs, the vast majority in the US, create a world wide EV charging infrastructure and single handedly turned the tide from ICE to BEV helping save our precious planet.

In 2009 the U.S. Dept. of Energy lent Solyndra $528M. They achieved nothing, went bankrupt, and defaulted on their loan shortly thereafter paying not a single cent back to the government.

Yet MoneyBox's Scott Woolley clearly stated that Tesla's result to the US government is twice as worse as that on Solyndra. As the article was written back in 2013 when Tesla was valued a $12B market cap, with that reasoning their Tesla investment is now 180X worse than that spent of Solyndra.

Yes, I get the point the author is trying to make, that US Goverment may have included some form of ownership of the company (in shares) to take on the high risk. However if these conditions were in place, perhaps Tesla would have sought money elsewhere from venture capitalists or others to keep it alive, so this is a mute point. But to compare and state Tesla is worse than Solyndra, and therefore Solyndra is better than Tesla, is a travesty of common sense.

Very glad that Tesla is not taking on the loan offered from Germany. Great move.

Scott Woolley should have concluded Tesla is the most incredible success in recent American history creating thousands of well paying jobs with billions paid in indirect taxes from the employee salary, sold cars, private contractors and all the shareholders paying taxes through stock sold, including Musk.

Sad article to read.

 

[winfield100]

Thanks @winfield100 .

Very valid point. The charts generated are Google Forms standard and not adjustable AFAIK. But I'm working on some analytics, and I'll try to make those charts more accessible.

I think the first pie slice actually starts at 45° (due East) and go clockwise from there, no?

yes, apologies, 45 degrees is where it starts and was my surmise, my color correction band pass filter glasses help a bit. (that is what i am used to as zero axis, 1st quadrant

 

[SmokyPeat]

That poll is a terrific hubris killer. Here I was, convinced of my exceptional investing talent, only to find I'm exceptionally average. I guess I can take solace in the knowledge that this is an exceptional group of investors.

 

[generalenthu]

Some good news on omicron. Doesn't seem to be of consequence especially if you're vaccinated.

Read the thread for more context, keeping in mind that this is still very early.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464622927333232640

 

[mars_or_bust]

My initial thought was that the subsidies came with strings attached and they wouldn't necessarily be limited to sharing. The attached conditions could be onerous in other ways.

It is EU funding. By the very definition it is onerous, bureaucratic, slow, and with lots of strings attached. Best to avoid it if there are other means to get funds - which is the case for Tesla.

Speaking from experience here....

 

[Jack6591]

That poll is a terrific hubris killer. Here I was, convinced of my exceptional investing talent, only to find I'm exceptionally average. I guess I can take solace in the knowledge that this is an exceptional group of investors.

I pulled this off the Internet, it must be true.

 

[Prunesquallor]

People are still complaining about the things that were said in Michigan, and I still don't see why it's important. It's Tesla that's making cars in large numbers and with large margins, and (absent unknown virus impact) the numbers will greatly increase in 2022 and 2023, and no one else is close to where Tesla is. Other people bleating and pointing in another direction doesn't change this.

Sorry. I may be dated, but I still think truth counts. The blatant BS that MB spewed is offensive to me. It means either 1) she thinks I’m a moron 2) she is truly delusional, or 3) she has been told by “superiors” that this is the story and we’ll keep lying hoping that people will start to believe it.

Probably 3).

 

[rexki]

Canceling All Subsidies…

The two certainties of life, death and taxes; in my experience, politicians can be counted on, with certainty, to maximize taxes. Doesn’t canceling subsidies have the effect as assessing new taxes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m confusing revenue and expenditures, but doesn’t one directly effects the other?

Growing closer and closer to the EV tipping point, growing closer and closer to Full Self Driving, disruption of world economic models is upon us. The latency of political will relative to technological evolution is like watching lava flow into the ocean; it takes time to build a new land. However, in the coming years, ”canceling all subsidies” will become far more viable. The political will to do so will grow exponentially once the demise of fossil fuel becomes apparent.

Imagine a world without subsidies, imagine a world where technological evolution and ingenuity reign supreme. For years, we have lauded ourselves as “just getting it.” The question becomes, what hath Tesla’s “Master Plan” wrought?

U.S. with no corn growing subsidies - Read Meat (corn fed) would be a boom to Texas Grass fed beef - box of Corn Chex would double - 15% ethanol gasoline would jump an immediate 15%
No oil and gas production and extraction credits - Gas jumps 50 cents a gallon.
No TSA and FAA airport and air control subsidies - flights go up an instant $130 per leg

 

[heltok]

Some good news on omicron. Doesn't seem to be of consequence especially if you're vaccinated.

Read the thread for more context, keeping in mind that this is still very early.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464622927333232640

Imo too early to tell:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464734073897766919

From the data from South Africa, I think the currently most probable guess is that vaccines are somewhat effective. This can change with new data. Even with vaccines there might be long term damages and spreading to more vulnerable population.

 

[CatB]

U.S. with no corn growing subsidies - Read Meat (corn fed) would be a boom to Texas Grass fed beef - box of Corn Chex would double - 15% ethanol gasoline would jump an immediate 15%
No oil and gas production and extraction credits - Gas jumps 50 cents a gallon.
No TSA and FAA airport and air control subsidies - flights go up an instant $130 per leg

So… without those subsidies, supply and demand alone would help with our carbon footprint.
And we’d have lots of money leftover to maybe do some good things.

 

[Featsbeyond50]

Sorry. I may be dated, but I still think truth counts. The blatant BS that MB spewed is offensive to me. It means either 1) she thinks I’m a moron 2) she is truly delusional, or 3) she has been told by “superiors” that this is the story and we’ll keep lying hoping that people will start to believe it.

Probably 3).

MB is entertainment value. Biden, on the other hand, is a real concern because we don't know what extent he'll go to protect those who are buying his services.

 

[Nolimits]

Our contribution for Q4. Picked up the wife’s 2022 MY to our stable. It’s definitely more refined than my M3. The delivery agent at the SC confirmed busiest they’ve ever been this month. Looking forward to next earnings!

 

[Electroman]

Panamax auto carrier max ~ 7,000 car capacity
72.2% capacity through the Panama canal is a toll/fee of $677,500 - that comes to $134/car!

That is just the fee for using the canal. What about all the extra shipping costs and the additional delays going through the canal?

 

[MartinAustin]

Wish those were in US cars

I fully expect the Austin-built Model Y to have, among other things -

revised trim around the dash and doors - a la MIC
HEPA filter for bio-defence mode - a la MIC
front and rear castings
structural 4680 battery
new LV battery that lasts the life of the car
AMD chips driving the display

Also, new 0-60 acceleration, max DC charging power and EPA range numbers that we haven't seen yet

 

[garrett5688]

I fully expect the Austin-built Model Y to have, among other things -

revised trim around the dash and doors - a la MIC
HEPA filter for bio-defence mode - a la MIC
front and rear castings
structural 4680 battery
new LV battery that lasts the life of the car
AMD chips driving the display

Also, new 0-60 acceleration, max DC charging power and EPA range numbers that we haven't seen yet

Quite a wish list. Don’t forget air suspension, HUD, and laser windshield wipers

 

[jhm]

No TSA and FAA airport and air control subsidies - flights go up an instant $130 per leg

Wow, I prefer to travel with both of my legs. That's like $260! But given how cramp coach seats are, I might consider flying without legs.

 

[Ohmster]

I fully expect the Austin-built Model Y to have, among other things -

revised trim around the dash and doors - a la MIC
HEPA filter for bio-defence mode - a la MIC
front and rear castings
structural 4680 battery
new LV battery that lasts the life of the car
AMD chips driving the display

Also, new 0-60 acceleration, max DC charging power and EPA range numbers that we haven't seen yet

Does the Y not already have the HEPA filtration system that includes BioHazard? As far as I could tell, the wording on the S description is the same as that of the Y.

Also:

The Tesla Model Y Has a Standard Bioweapon Defense Mode

The Hepa filter in the Tesla Model Y will have a bioweapon defense mode. It will be in the Model Y instead of other options because the Model Y has enough space to make it work.

www.motorbiscuit.com

 

[Words of HABIT]

The latest covid variant, Omicron originating from South Africa, impacting world markets and our very livelihood, show what happens when countries act independently instead of together for the common humanity. Here in Canada we are now issuing booster (3rd) vaccine shots while many countries, such as those in South Africa, have yet to distribute a single vaccine dose to the majority of their population. I've read Canada has discarded >1M doses of vaccine due to over supply and passing expiration dates. Even within each country the discord is great between those who feel vaccination is a societal necessessity, and those who feel vaccination as compromising individual freedom. We just can't seem to get it right. We need to act together, in unity, every country, everyone. Until then, covid and its distruction will prevail. The weakest link breaks the chain for all, so we must work together to strenghthen the weakest links.

The latest flooding and landslides in Canada's bookends of British Columbia bordering the Pacific Ocean, and the Atlantic Provinces, shows what happens when countries act independently instead of together for the common humanity. Until then, global environmental catastrophies will continue to accellerate at an alarming rate due to climate change caused by burning fossil fuels.

Do what you can to help those in need, especially those affected by covid and climate change. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Tesla is part of the solution. Tesla is acting for the common good, accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy.

 

[redan]

Pretty impressive for Shanghai if this is in fact the current run rate. Get ready for a blowout 4Q beyond our wildest imagination:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464646946895773699

 

[MartinAustin]

Does the Y not already have the HEPA filtration system that includes BioHazard?

Yes... was just summing up recent innovations

Also Austin is expected to produce only the Performance Y to start. I'm in two minds as to what to expect re: paint colours. Will they offer Metallic Silver and/or some others? Since it's just the Performance Y? Or will they keep to the same 5 current colours until S+X are able to have different colours?

Theory: since changing colours at Fremont slows down the production line for all vehicles, and that's what has led to the restriction to 5 colours... perhaps if overall production can be increased simply by the existence of the Texas factory, perhaps they can add more colours at Fremont too. (to all four vehicles)