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Thanks for sharing your real-world experience. The following report on Giga Shanghai planned 2022 production increase came out 1 month ago:


These parts seem most relevant:
Every time we get our hands on solid data re Tesla future plans it turns out to have been correct, even if it was unbelievable at the time.

It doesn't get much more solid than a firm booking with a shipping line for ships. If we have understood that news from by Hyundai-Glovis correctly. If.

If one were to accept that 700k exports from Shanghai (they were specific about the city) is indeed what Tesla are intending, and if one were to think that the (approx.) ratio of China-local : China-export were to reverse from 2:1 to become 1:2 then that would imply that Shanghai total production in 2022 would be 1,050k. If in 2021 they manufacture approx. 480k in Shanghai then this implies more than doubling in vehicle terms.

(By the way, it is hard to think that China-local consumption would hold level in absolute numbers in such a scenario. But that implies even more than 1m/yr production !!!)

That article (and similar) you cited were indeed suggestive of very major expansions. We already know that there were a lot of the casting machines on order which were assigned to Shanghai.

The first question is obviously, have we enough confidence that they can get the cells for this much ? LFP presumably ?

The second question is whether this might include the launch of a model 2. The various suggestions that it might be a shortened model 3 (presumably hatchback to be competitive in the relevant markets) would certainly ease the design pathway. (Though I do have the concern that the hatchback version of the BMW-3-series never quite worked, which is the best historical analogue I can think of, though that was badly affected by being RWD). Would launching a model 2 make getting to 1m/yr out of Shanghai more or less difficult vs 'just' putting in more 3 and Y lines ?

Questions, questions.

If Shanghai can reach 1m deliveries in 2022 then total Tesla 2022 would likely be 2m.

These are seriously bonkers numbers.
 
Here's how I see it.

You either believe/calculate TSLA valuation is based on their ability to disrupt/create trillion dollar markets or you hedge against it. Some days I question and re-visit my beliefs/calculations to again come to the conclusion that TSLA is undervalued for what their stated/non-stated goals have in store for the markets at large.

Nicely sussed, equally as applicable today as when you wrote these words a decade ago. :D

If Tesla can maintain a $50K ASP per vehicle, then by the time they get to 20 million vehicles per year, they will have $1T annual revenue just from the Automotive business.

$50K sound high after LFP and Model 2? Just remember that ASP includes 10M robotaxis with FSD sold at commercial prices.

Also, several of us suspect that TE (Megapack/LFP, 3rd-party charging), AI (including Teslabot, Dojo as a Service), will also be trillion dollar markets for Tesla. Imma call it: $3T/yr annual revenue for Tesla by 2030.

Future's so bright, we'll have to buy shade trees... ;)

Cheers!
 
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Every time we get our hands on solid data re Tesla future plans it turns out to have been correct, even if it was unbelievable at the time.

It doesn't get much more solid than a firm booking with a shipping line for ships. If we have understood that news from by Hyundai-Glovis correctly. If.

If one were to accept that 700k exports from Shanghai (they were specific about the city) is indeed what Tesla are intending, and if one were to think that the (approx.) ratio of China-local : China-export were to reverse from 2:1 to become 1:2 then that would imply that Shanghai total production in 2022 would be 1,050k. If in 2021 they manufacture approx. 480k in Shanghai then this implies more than doubling in vehicle terms.

(By the way, it is hard to think that China-local consumption would hold level in absolute numbers in such a scenario. But that implies even more than 1m/yr production !!!)

That article (and similar) you cited were indeed suggestive of very major expansions. We already know that there were a lot of the casting machines on order which were assigned to Shanghai.

The first question is obviously, have we enough confidence that they can get the cells for this much ? LFP presumably ?

The second question is whether this might include the launch of a model 2. The various suggestions that it might be a shortened model 3 (presumably hatchback to be competitive in the relevant markets) would certainly ease the design pathway. (Though I do have the concern that the hatchback version of the BMW-3-series never quite worked, which is the best historical analogue I can think of, though that was badly affected by being RWD). Would launching a model 2 make getting to 1m/yr out of Shanghai more or less difficult vs 'just' putting in more 3 and Y lines ?

Questions, questions.

If Shanghai can reach 1m deliveries in 2022 then total Tesla 2022 would likely be 2m.

These are seriously bonkers numbers.
Speaking of bonkers, I'm old enough to remember when Cathie Wood's $4,000 seemed bonkers
 
The first question is obviously, have we enough confidence that they can get the cells for this much ? LFP presumably ?

CATL already announced a LFP plans for Shangahi: (Jun 6, 2021)
CATL Planning 80 GWh Battery Factory Near Tesla Giga Shanghai

WuWa thinks it's nearly completed already: (Nov 23, 2021)
CATL factory nears completion 3 km from Tesla factory\Teslashanghai\4K # 365

The second question is whether this might include the launch of a model 2.
The Nov 2021 article is fairly specific in that it says the project is for "existing production lines". So I expect Model 2 must be separate. Another source says ~4K new employees due to this expansion, so that's another way to estimate increased production, given 19K employees total currently (maybe +25% production).

The article also mentions the project is for "derivatives of Model 3 and Model Y". I take that to mean SR+/LFP, not the Model 2 which will require far more factory space at the volumes required for the new car to be profitable.

I hold that the Model 2 factory will be a new build on what is now the earthworks to the NE of the new Giga Shanghai R&D Center. They're going to need serious logistics to make 1-2M Models 2 per year at Shanghai.
 
"Floki Santa"

FHfCJ7TX0AwDyHE


Elon says Merry Christmas. :D

Cheers!
 
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Ha. Not many people were willing to dump 90k into a start up car company while coming out of a financial crisis with the news blasting "double dip recession" every day. That was also the year Fisker declared bankruptcy, not exactly confidence inspiring.

Now you see how everyone is dumping money into the "next tesla" without a care in the world because of Tesla's success. Too bad in the market the only time you make money is when the risk is too high for normal people to handle, and lose money when everyone feels like it's free money.

That hasn't been my experience. I felt the absolute lowest risk time to buy Tesla was in the first half of 2019 when it was under $250 ($50 split adjusted). The market was telling us it was high risk but anyone following the company fundamentals closely could see it was not.

My investment style is to buy and hold companies that have such a substantial hold on their particular market that it's nearly a sure thing. To get the best returns you need to be early but the real gravy is the long, multi-year growth phase after the "discovery phase". It's the gravy because it lasts so long and is so secure (assuming good management and no unexpected disruption). For example, I sold all my MSFT in 1998 even though they were in the gravy phase because I had identified Qualcomm who had a digital cellular technology that was certain to be the basis for all digital cellular going forward. These situations are not all that easy to find but, once identified, are very low risk in the longer term. Then, QCOM appreciated 36x and I sold it all based upon my belief that it was valued so far higher than could be justified going forward and the entire tech market was super frothy. Had I held, I still would have been up many fold, even when it bottomed a couple years later during the tech bust. Since then, I re-entered MSFT 15 years later and it's already 5x or 6x (plus paid some decent dividends). It's not nearly as good as the early heady days in the late 1980's and early 1990's but it's still a keeper for now.

TSLA was too risky for my investment style in 2012-2017, which is predicated on getting the gravy and minimizing risks and losses. But in 2018 it was starting to look more attractive. I dabbled a little bit, sold for a small profit (not because it had appreciated but because I felt like better entry points were coming up and I didn't like the risk/reward ratio) and started buying in earnest in 2019 in the $200's. The only reason I didn't go all in at $250 (even though I thought it was safe to do so in the long run) was because I thought I could get a better price so I made periodic buys as it dropped all the way to $184 where I doubled my position. I "knew" this was a very low risk buy so I went big.

My point is, by investing for the long-term and always being ready to dump if your long-term thesis weakens too much, you can avoid much of the risk. Tesla is in the gravy phase and I have no plans to dump unless it runs up well above where it is today. Even if Tesla went to zero tomorrow, I would still be far ahead of where I would be if I had never invested a penny in TSLA (due to options profits and also a small amount of portfolio balancing earlier in the year). The secret is being bold when the getting is good and riding it as long as possible. Also, understanding the power of compounding and making it work for you.

I'm not saying I've never invested in dogs, but the secret is to realize it in time to dump them before the losses are huge and also saving big positions only for your highest conviction picks. To minimize risks, get in early and realize that many good companies will not be identifiable until after their best growth is behind them. You can't participate in all of the ones that turn out great (and you don't need to). That's why you have to go big when the getting is good. And when you catch the whopper, let it ride (assuming the company has quality management). Early profit taking is a big no-no!
 
That hasn't been my experience. I felt the absolute lowest risk time to buy Tesla was in the first half of 2019 when it was under $250 ($50 split adjusted). The market was telling us it was high risk but anyone following the company fundamentals closely could see it was not.

My investment style is to buy and hold companies that have such a substantial hold on their particular market that it's nearly a sure thing. To get the best returns you need to be early but the real gravy is the long, multi-year growth phase after the "discovery phase". It's the gravy because it lasts so long and is so secure (assuming good management and no unexpected disruption). For example, I sold all my MSFT in 1998 even though they were in the gravy phase because I had identified Qualcomm who had a digital cellular technology that was certain to be the basis for all digital cellular going forward. These situations are not all that easy to find but, once identified, are very low risk in the longer term. Then, QCOM appreciated 36x and I sold it all based upon my belief that it was valued so far higher than could be justified going forward and the entire tech market was super frothy. Had I held, I still would have been up many fold, even when it bottomed a couple years later during the tech bust. Since then, I re-entered MSFT 15 years later and it's already 5x or 6x (plus paid some decent dividends). It's not nearly as good as the early heady days in the late 1980's and early 1990's but it's still a keeper for now.

TSLA was too risky for my investment style in 2012-2017, which is predicated on getting the gravy and minimizing risks and losses. But in 2018 it was starting to look more attractive. I dabbled a little bit, sold for a small profit (not because it had appreciated but because I felt like better entry points were coming up and I didn't like the risk/reward ratio) and started buying in earnest in 2019 in the $200's. The only reason I didn't go all in at $250 (even though I thought it was safe to do so in the long run) was because I thought I could get a better price so I made periodic buys as it dropped all the way to $184 where I doubled my position. I "knew" this was a very low risk buy so I went big.

My point is, by investing for the long-term and always being ready to dump if your long-term thesis weakens too much, you can avoid much of the risk. Tesla is in the gravy phase and I have no plans to dump unless it runs up well above where it is today. Even if Tesla went to zero tomorrow, I would still be far ahead of where I would be if I had never invested a penny in TSLA (due to options profits and also a small amount of portfolio balancing earlier in the year). The secret is being bold when the getting is good and riding it as long as possible. Also, understanding the power of compounding and making it work for you.

I'm not saying I've never invested in dogs, but the secret is to realize it in time to dump them before the losses are huge and also saving big positions only for your highest conviction picks. To minimize risks, get in early and realize that many good companies will not be identifiable until after their best growth is behind them. You can't participate in all of the ones that turn out great (and you don't need to). That's why you have to go big when the getting is good. And when you catch the whopper, let it ride (assuming the company has quality management). Early profit taking is a big no-no!
We were talking about 2013, not 2018. Early 2018 was still risky because they couldn't get out of production hell. But once they were out the sky was blue. No demand risk from 2019 was all noise.
 
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In January 2013 I paid cash for my Model S of $92k. At the time the stock price was about $35 a share. Had I financed the car at the time and bought stock instead, it would be 2,628 shares x 5 for the split x $1067= $14 million. Most expensive car I ever bought!
Right there with you except I just sold enough for a down payment. My S was only around 3 million. I still have it. No one wants to pay $750K for it used! LOL
Maybe in another 8-10 years when it depreciates to around $100K. Hey who knows, maybe one day it will be a collectors item and the worth will catch up to itself. :)
 
In January 2013 I paid cash for my Model S of $92k. At the time the stock price was about $35 a share. Had I financed the car at the time and bought stock instead, it would be 2,628 shares x 5 for the split x $1067= $14 million. Most expensive car I ever bought!
It's important that you bought an S at all. Or Tesla would be on a list with Tucker.
 
In January 2013 I paid cash for my Model S of $92k. At the time the stock price was about $35 a share. Had I financed the car at the time and bought stock instead, it would be 2,628 shares x 5 for the split x $1067= $14 million. Most expensive car I ever bought!
You should ask Elon for a share rebate, since you helped support his company in the very early days. I'm not sure if I'm being serious right now. But people like you are the reason Tesla exists today. This is an example of the axiom: while saving the world feels good, it doesn't exactly pay very well most of the time.
 
You may want to call Tesla service center to find out what’s going on. I know someone with a score of 96 who also got it.

Every time we get our hands on solid data re Tesla future plans it turns out to have been correct, even if it was unbelievable at the time.

It doesn't get much more solid than a firm booking with a shipping line for ships. If we have understood that news from by Hyundai-Glovis correctly. If.

If one were to accept that 700k exports from Shanghai (they were specific about the city) is indeed what Tesla are intending, and if one were to think that the (approx.) ratio of China-local : China-export were to reverse from 2:1 to become 1:2 then that would imply that Shanghai total production in 2022 would be 1,050k. If in 2021 they manufacture approx. 480k in Shanghai then this implies more than doubling in vehicle terms.

(By the way, it is hard to think that China-local consumption would hold level in absolute numbers in such a scenario. But that implies even more than 1m/yr production !!!)

That article (and similar) you cited were indeed suggestive of very major expansions. We already know that there were a lot of the casting machines on order which were assigned to Shanghai.

The first question is obviously, have we enough confidence that they can get the cells for this much ? LFP presumably ?

The second question is whether this might include the launch of a model 2. The various suggestions that it might be a shortened model 3 (presumably hatchback to be competitive in the relevant markets) would certainly ease the design pathway. (Though I do have the concern that the hatchback version of the BMW-3-series never quite worked, which is the best historical analogue I can think of, though that was badly affected by being RWD). Would launching a model 2 make getting to 1m/yr out of Shanghai more or less difficult vs 'just' putting in more 3 and Y lines ?

Questions, questions.

If Shanghai can reach 1m deliveries in 2022 then total Tesla 2022 would likely be 2m.

These are seriously bonkers numbers.
Now THAT is the kind of reply I was hoping for when I first posed the question about $420+ MILLION Dollars for a one year shipping contract.
 
Enjoy the short movie. It shows the (may I say: our?) visionary Musk.

Link to the article with the embedded movie.

Thx everyone for an entertaining and generous 2021.
Stay safe and healthy and may 2022 bring all the love and happiness for all of you and your families.
Man that takes me back. Look at their operations back then, omg. They were so tiny, tiny tiny back then. And now it's Giga Factories! The progress and growth is mind blowing.
 
It seems like Tesla is missing a huge opportunity by shipping 400,000 half empty cars around the world. They could offer a freight service and fill the cars with cell phones or ping pong balls and lower their shipping costs even more.
Bricks? Fresh fish? What would you like shipped in your car? Make a poll.

Get $200 off for letting Tesla ship wet dogs in your car or say $20,000 off for wet cats...have it be demand based, heck if you let them ship 3 cats your car would be free.
 
Speaking of bonkers, I'm old enough to remember when Cathie Wood's $4,000 seemed bonkers

OK, I guess we know you are at least 3 years old then! People thought she was bonkers and open laughed at the absurdity that could happen by 2023. But she was actually too bearish by 2 years. Now, sitting at $5300 (split adjusted) nobody is laughing....

Just kidding, people still don't get it! Because the competition is still coming... :rolleyes:
 
Enjoy the short movie. It shows the (may I say: our?) visionary Musk.

Link to the article with the embedded movie.
Great clip. When he got in his red Roadster I'm glad he didn't say "Someday I'm going to launch this car into outer space." People would have thought he was crazy!

I wish I had seen this clip in 2008. I would have been a fanboy much sooner and probably would have been an earlier investor after Tesla went public.
 
I think my family knows me too well. Merry Christmas to my TMC family:

View attachment 748397

The text/pictures on the coffee mug pretty much describes me, my wife says.
(but not getting too many complaints, since I got her into investing in TSLA herself).
Would very much like to get one.
Where to buy or is it custom made?
My guess is that there will be more here that are interested, so I posted in stead of a PM to @redan .