Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Singuy]

We have been here before.
Japan took over the World Auto industry in the 1980s with their efficient, well made and reliable vehicles in response to laggard American auto manafacturers resting on their laurels.
The 2020s will have China EVs and Tesla take over the World Auto industry with their electric propulsion, computing prowness for autonomy and safety, in response to the laggard American, German and Japanese auto manufacturers resting on their laurels.
Based on all we have seen to date, this is as certain as the sun coming up tomorrow.

Yeah except the Japanese were known to be the most meticulous detailed oriented people in the world who obsess over perfection. The Chinese are known to be the opposite. Being in the culture its clearly evident why the stereotype exist. Not saying BYD cuts corners as I expect their EVs to be as good as their cellphones...however the bias against made in China anything is extremely strong and I don't see them turning this around. Brand power is a thing which the China made products are pretty much ranked last in desirability. Same goes with Chinese food, Chinese TVs, Chinese anything. It's always the budget option with low desirability vs the rest.

 

[UnknownSoldier]

I’d anticipate 1,150 before the next Dip. Soon.

Just tell me when to sell some call spreads. Please and thank you.

 

[HG Wells]

You'll find that Chinese made products do pretty well everywhere except the big first world countries.

I expect this to continue on forward. There's an inherent bias against Chinese made products(being poor, copy cat clones, cut corners, full of lead). Also you add in a dose of "it spies on you" and Americans would rather not embarrass themselves with an unknown brand with zero service infrastructure. Unlike cellphones, you can't ship a car back to a distribution center for repairs nor can you use pep boys (even so, Americans didn't buy any Chinese made cells phones even though they are the best bang for the buck).

Also consider that it took over a decade for Americans to warm up to the new Korean car brands on the block. People found their cars to have more features for the same priced luxury car with an aggressive warranty. However, I really don't think BYD can import a car into the U.S and sell it with more features and CHEAPER than a Tesla...ever. Tesla will continue it's lead on price per performance. That's kind of their thing...the original plan was to out compete the Chinese before they can even copy..now we find that they just are copying Tesla's manufacturing process just to keep up as Musk wanted it to be.

Will you know its Chinese ?

BYD will sell through Toyota. Its more than just the batteries.

2024 Toyota bZ4X | Toyota.com

Head over to the Toyota website to explore the features and specifications you get when you choose the battery-electric 2024 Toyota bZ4X as your next car.

www.toyota.com

 

[SmokyPeat]

Yeah except the Japanese were known to be the most meticulous detailed oriented people in the world who obsess over perfection. The Chinese are known to be the opposite. Being in the culture its clearly evident why the stereotype exist. Not saying BYD cuts corners as I expect their EVs to be as good as their cellphones...however the bias against made in China anything is extremely strong and I don't see them turning this around. Brand power is a thing which the China made products are pretty much ranked last in desirability. Same goes with Chinese food, Chinese TVs, Chinese anything. It's always the budget option with low desirability vs the rest.

Japanese export products were generally considered to be cheap junk in the US 50+ years ago. Reputations can change. Chinese food is undesirable? My family never got that memo.

 

[Ogre]

Will you know its Chinese ?

Volvo, Polestar, and Lotus are all owned by Geely Group so the water is already pretty muddy. I doubt anyone thinks of any of those brands remotely as "Chinese" brands. While they operate independently of their parent group, they almost certainly share some battery tech.

 

[Singuy]

Will you know its Chinese ?

BYD will sell through Toyota. Its more than just the batteries.

2024 Toyota bZ4X | Toyota.com

Head over to the Toyota website to explore the features and specifications you get when you choose the battery-electric 2024 Toyota bZ4X as your next car.

www.toyota.com

Best way to enter the market. But I just love the smell of Toyota taking more of a margin beating by providing a platform for the wolf they allowed in the den.

 

[CHGolferJim]

Volvo, Polestar, and Lotus are all owned by Geely Group so the water is already pretty muddy. I doubt anyone thinks of any of those brands remotely as "Chinese" brands. While they operate independently of their parent group, they almost certainly share some battery tech.

A friend of mine is a floor salesman for a Volvo dealer, and he’s very positive about the impact of Geely ownership and capital investment.

 

[Featsbeyond50]

My take from these posts is human nature doesn't change and it will prevail in the end. It's great that Japan went from a manufacturing reputation from Cheap to Quality and I won't be surprised if China does the same. One thing I know though, one day Tesla will be fat and happy, will get caught resting on its laurels, and will be disrupted. Could be 15 years from now or 150 but human nature.

 

[OrthoSurg]

Will you know its Chinese ?

BYD will sell through Toyota. Its more than just the batteries.

2024 Toyota bZ4X | Toyota.com

Head over to the Toyota website to explore the features and specifications you get when you choose the battery-electric 2024 Toyota bZ4X as your next car.

www.toyota.com

Is there an official partnership between the 2? BYD producing the powertrain and Toyotal producing the rest of the vehicle?

 

[OrthoSurg]

My take from these posts is human nature doesn't change and it will prevail in the end. It's great that Japan went from a manufacturing reputation from Cheap to Quality and I won't be surprised if China does the same. One thing I know though, one day Tesla will be fat and happy, will get caught resting on its laurels, and will be disrupted. Could be 15 years from now or 150 but human nature.

Not sure Tesla will be resting on its laurels as long at Elon is a the head of the company. Once he steps aside once the company is mature and had 10 factories operating world wide to pump out Model S, Model X, Model 3, Model Y, Cybertruck, Semis, Roadsters, Solar roofs and Tesla bots. I agree the rate of innovation might go down. I remains confident that as long as Elon is there, the rate of innovation wont go down.

 

[Featsbeyond50]

I just took a look at the long term chart for Toyota....
Is anybody shorting this?

 

[Featsbeyond50]

Not sure Tesla will be resting on its laurels as long at Elon is a the head of the company. Once he steps aside once the company is mature and had 10 factories operating world wide to pump out Model S, Model X, Model 3, Model Y, Cybertruck, Semis, Roadsters, Solar roofs and Tesla bots. I agree the rate of innovation might go down. I remains confident that as long as Elon is there, the rate of innovation wont go down.

Give me a break Doc, I said 15 to 150 years. I'm not worried about this happening anytime soon.

 

[UkNorthampton]

Not sure Tesla will be resting on its laurels as long at Elon is a the head of the company. Once he steps aside once the company is mature and had 10 factories operating world wide to pump out Model S, Model X, Model 3, Model Y, Cybertruck, Semis, Roadsters, Solar roofs and Tesla bots. I agree the rate of innovation might go down. I remains confident that as long as Elon is there, the rate of innovation wont go down.

There seems to be deliberate competition whether in SpaceX (texas vs Florida?) or Tesla (Berlin vs Texas). I think Elon has a great understanding of the mentioned risks & some strategies to reduce, even eliminate. Hopefully will last a long time, while his methods spread out and become more widespread anyway. Perhaps we are seeing the decline of the professional MBA, always-say-no, political manager?

 

[tivoboy]

Just tell me when to sell some call spreads. Please and thank you.

AT 1150, I would start to sell the call spreads

 

[Ogre]

A friend of mine is a floor salesman for a Volvo dealer, and he’s very positive about the impact of Geely ownership and capital investment.

Wasn't meant to pan or talk down the Chinese ownership. Just the fact of it. An increasing number of businesses are Chineses owned. We all think of IDRA as an Italian company, but it is fully owned by LK, a Hong Kong based company.

 

[jbcarioca]

At 43,000 feet? Not so many TESLA out there...

True but there are quite a few Hondas up there from time to time.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Max pain was $950 as of Friday. I'm looking for some Elon selling and a MONDAY DIP!

I'll take a quick 4.5% drop to $1019 before a rapid reversal to close -1.5% Monday.

 

[torifile]

AT 1150, I would start to sell the call spreads

I gotta look up call spreads. No need to post a tutorial here - that’s not what this thread is for. But it seems to be something worth knowing about.

Edit: I take that back. If one owns the underlying stock, how does one do this effectively? Let’s assume I own 100 shares for simplicity’s sake.

 

[JustMe]

Max pain was $950 as of Friday. I'm looking for some Elon selling and a MONDAY DIP!

I'll take a quick 4.5% drop to $1019 before a rapid reversal to close -1.5% Monday.

It’s too early to tell, really, but the highest call wall is sitting at $1,100. I expect to see a pause in the $1000’s this week for profit taking and Elon selling.

 

[madodel]

Yeah except the Japanese were known to be the most meticulous detailed oriented people in the world who obsess over perfection. The Chinese are known to be the opposite. Being in the culture its clearly evident why the stereotype exist. Not saying BYD cuts corners as I expect their EVs to be as good as their cellphones...however the bias against made in China anything is extremely strong and I don't see them turning this around. Brand power is a thing which the China made products are pretty much ranked last in desirability. Same goes with Chinese food, Chinese TVs, Chinese anything. It's always the budget option with low desirability vs the rest.

I was told by someone who grew up in the Eastern block and spent time in the DDR that the Trabant, as awful as it was, had a multi-year waiting list to purchase. People buy what they can afford and what they can get.

I still see online a lot of hate for Tesla because people can't afford them.