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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Pierre had multiple points that gave him doubts and they are reasonable.

1. Will robotaxi demand be low in the near term? Waymo's program has demonstrated that demand for driverless taxi is low when it's too geofenced + not enough early adopters. This is currently true in Phoenix Arizona. Could just be that the tech is ahead of it's time so for the near term I agree with Pierre that if FSD was solved tomorrow, it'll take awhile before we have universal acceptance. When lives are on the line, people would like to wait a few years to see real world statistics and how often accidents happen. We understand that the media eats up any Tesla's mistakes and the first FSD accident will probably end up in the supreme court in the fight against Tesla's rollout given the spectacle it'll generate. I see major risk here.

2. Will robotaxi be profitable? Pierre mentioned google fiber being expensive. Ride hailing is also expensive. Uber being a software company makes only 38% gross margins on their revenue. This is absolutely abysmal when compared to other software makers. The reason is due to high cost on insurance and customer service, taking 40% of their total revenue. So it's going to be a long road ahead to reach profitability on ride hailing robotaxies. We are expecting revenue per customer to go down due to having no driver and to compete with people who own cars. However with price going down, we should see influx in demand which is where robotaxies should make it up. Taking marketshare from Uber is easy, however would half priced robotaxies make people want to ditch their cars completely? I think yes in the distant future, but not anytime soon.

So with Pierre I believe he thinks in the short term robotaxies will be a hard business to make profitable. FSD subscription/buy in he sees are much more profitable than to deal with the expense of the ride hailing network and the potential for a near term lack in demand. Also the price of Tesla's being 35k for Tesla to produce doesn't help with that profitability equation, but a simple 15k car with 2 seats or something may change things around.
The thing with a FSD driverless taxi service is that it has to work essentially flawlessly from day one to be a success. It cant just be a cool tech demo.

Sure its exciting to use a driverless taxi the first few times, but the moment it fails in some manner to complete the basic jobs-to-be-done primary mission to get the passenger from point a to point b, then that passenger will most likely never want to use it again and will choose an Uber/Lyft instead.
 
Recently there were a few posts talking about Tesla‘s new battery as being one of the biggest changes in the auto industry ever. I actually think the gigacasting is a much more fundamental change, and the new battery format/tech just adds to it.

At first Elon thought massively increasing the jobs done by robotics in body construction was the answer to the question of “how do we build a car body” - and that didn’t quite workout, and they ended up needed more humans on the line. But then coming up with giga-casting was a real stroke of genius and the clear “first principles” answer, and that reduction in needed factory space - along with the vastly reduced footprint required for 4680 cell production - I think may set the scene for some smaller integrated tesla auto/cell factories for places like Brazil, Japan and maybe the UK, where something like a ~250k annual unit volume may be more appropriate, at least initially. If they can figure out a way to make a line that can swap between 3, Y, the smaller hatch and/or van with minimal downtime then that would work great in these smaller volume markets.
The Giga casting if we go by Munro's word was a big one. It's something that big Auto never thought was possible. Ideas like that would die in a box somewhere to never be found again. They got so stagnated that apparently they stopped pushing the boundaries in Material Sciences. Again paraphrasing Munro here, they stopped developing new materials in the 90's or so because they thought that that was the pinnacle of it. It's mind numbing how big Auto thinks.
 
The thing with a FSD driverless taxi service is that it has to work essentially flawlessly from day one to be a success. It cant just be a cool tech demo.

Sure its exciting to use a driverless taxi the first few times, but the moment it fails in some manner to complete the basic jobs-to-be-done primary mission to get the passenger from point a to point b, then that passenger will most likely never want to use it again and will choose an Uber/Lyft instead.
In SF Ubers have like 50% chance to making it without hitting something:) I 'll take self driving any day.
 
The Giga casting if we go by Munro's word was a big one. It's something that big Auto never thought was possible.
I'm not sure they thought it was impossible, just not worth the effort or cost. They are all setup quite differently for their existing production methods.

Its interesting we can point to a good handful of teslas business aspects as 'the big one'. 4680s, dojo, FSD, castings, integration, innovation etc.
 
The thing with a FSD driverless taxi service is that it has to work essentially flawlessly from day one to be a success. It cant just be a cool tech demo.

Sure its exciting to use a driverless taxi the first few times, but the moment it fails in some manner to complete the basic jobs-to-be-done primary mission to get the passenger from point a to point b, then that passenger will most likely never want to use it again and will choose an Uber/Lyft instead.
No, it's the same situation as with FSD -- it doesn't need to be perfect. It doesn't even need to be very good. All it has to be is noticeably better than the competition. Human drivers are pretty bad, and Ubers are pretty bad too. So a robotaxi doesn't have any really impressive competition. Just being significantly cheaper will guarantee customers.

In pandemic times, just having good ventilation and no extra human in the vehicle will guarantee customers too.
 
The thing with a FSD driverless taxi service is that it has to work essentially flawlessly from day one to be a success. It cant just be a cool tech demo.

Sure its exciting to use a driverless taxi the first few times, but the moment it fails in some manner to complete the basic jobs-to-be-done primary mission to get the passenger from point a to point b, then that passenger will most likely never want to use it again and will choose an Uber/Lyft instead.
We have seen that Waymo can go haywire. However unlike Tesla, we don't see any broadcasting on CNN/CNBC/Biden's twitter feed/etc etc. The Waymo's F up youtube video has 420k views with only one local channel picking it up.

This is a huge risk going forward and I see Robotaxi being a thing after a good portion of the population have used Tesla FSD production code and are comfortable with it. That's the only way to battle the unknown before the media shape their own narrative. Just understand a small traffic jam in the boring tunnel made it around the internet, it's shared all over twitter, and some publications are making a point that it's a death trap if there's a fire. The amount of scrutiny anything Elon's company does is ridiculous beyond proportions.
 
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We have seen that Waymo can go haywire. However unlike Tesla, we don't see it broadcasting it on CNN/CNBC/Biden's twitter feed/etc etc. The Waymo's F up youtube video has 420k views with only one local channel picking it up.

This is a huge risk going forward and I see Robotaxi being a thing after a good portion of the population have used Tesla FSD production code and are comfortable with it. That's the only way to battle the unknown before the media shape their own narrative.
To get regulatory approval in most places it will need to be substantially better than a human and have stats to back that up.

It may need to pass specially devised tests, with some random variation.

IMO the ideal situation is what I would call a "Bedrock Version", that is a version that gets most things right, in most situations, and rarely has a regression when retraining., Get that "Bedrock Version", and Tesla can safely retrain to eliminate progressively more and more obscure edge cases.

It will need to be a lot better than what Waymo current has, and signicantly better than the current FSD beta version.

We are all well used to the media beating up small aspects like staff leaving Tesla, car fires, recalls autopilot crashes, often these have share price impact. But mostly that impact should be retracing some of the gains when FSD was complete, or when FSD was approved. So any drop is from a higher price than we have today.

The maximum I expect regulators to do is, suspend Tesla FSD operations in an area while any incident is investigated, that will grind through a process, and after sometime I expect the FSD licence would be reinstated.

Is bad press anything new or unexpected?

Overtime the stats should say on average signicantly safer than human that is all that counts. Some humans are dragging the human average down, in terms of building the case for FSD, that is a big help.
 
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The thing with a FSD driverless taxi service is that it has to work essentially flawlessly from day one to be a success. It cant just be a cool tech demo.

Sure its exciting to use a driverless taxi the first few times, but the moment it fails in some manner to complete the basic jobs-to-be-done primary mission to get the passenger from point a to point b, then that passenger will most likely never want to use it again and will choose an Uber/Lyft instead.
If a bear gets tickled by the feathers on a duck's butt he will most likely never eat another duck and will choose a chicken.
 
Homer Changes his 2022 Price Target
I mentioned my Non-GAAP EPS above at $14.15. My GAAP EPS is now at $12.87.
Financial sites like Market Watch, Yahoo Finance, etc use GAAP EPS (not Non-GAAP)

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What is the probability of TSLA closing above $1500 on 20/1/2023?

My wife wants to know if I am crazy.
 
Tesla has a lot of advantages over Uber/Lyft, some of which you have not listed. One example: HEPA filters that operate at a guaranteed air refresh rate in these times could be a big differentiator.

Because it can offer a differentiated product, Tesla can attack the problem in a few ways. Like a relatively cheap amped up Tesla Black. But in the end, I don't have conviction on how quickly that could overcome Uber's scale advantages. We will just have to see the experiment play out. Ferragu's theory is at least worth considering.
I'm just glad the Robotaxi won't douse itself in 37 gallons of AXE body spray or some other obnoxious levels of cologne/perfume. The car itself will probably smell like a Macy's perfume/cologne dept. over time though. Yes, I have the nose of a sommelier and I'm catastrophizing this early. :D

Anyhoot, there's another advantage over human-driven ride-sharing vehicles.
 
It looks like even giga Texas starts production now, Tesla won’t announce it till q4 earning call, just like what they did with Tesla Shanghai. Shanghai started production in October 2019. Tesla waited till q3 earning call on Oct 23 to announce Shanghai production was ahead of schedule
On a side note, when tsla surprised 2019 q3 with profit and giga Shanghai production anouncement in the call, sp gapped up 20% after earning. If they continue to hamper the sp before earning, its setting up for meltup after earning, papa Powell permitting