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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I don't understand or play options. And besides, I can already buy the condo building. ;) I'm retired and this is just my little way of having some extra fun.
If you want extra fun, come to the options thread - where we do great for weeks and then lose money hand over fist, and have to sell the condo building to make up for it.... 🤪😖
 
Just a reminder that Moody's had Enron debt rated investment grade, right up to a few days before it declared bankruptcy. They're not exactly the smartest guys in the room.

In defense of Moody's, those Enron guys wore real nice suits - it's not like Moody's was dealing with common ruffians or anything....

/s
 
Pre-Market volume today was only 846,230 shares, as opposed to over 2.2M shares during yesterday's panty bare bear raid:

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Looking like hedgies are content for now with trying to make TSLA ride its Lower-BB (precisely where we opened today): SC10 + M/A

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C'mon, EARNINGS! :D

Cheers!
 
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To be honest I'm not so much interested in when Tesla gets an investment-grade rating, as when many others will deservedly lose it.

Hopefully this time the ratings agencies will figure that out more than 3-days before those others go belly up.

Hopefully Moody's does not figure it out this time either. I think it would be fitting if they went belly-up this time around as they have outlived their usefulness by at least 2 decades, if not 4 decades. Smaller more fact-based tech companies, using AI to help make more accurate ratings, should replace them.
 
This is probably an ideal time to learn a bit about ratings and how they can diverge. It's not actually quite so opaque as it is often made out to be.
Broadly, the ratings themselves are about proven stability. Profitability and growth may be relevant but both are considered from the single perspective of stability. Tesla does not have investment grade because it is not stable. High growth is an impediment to stability. Rapidly rising margins are impediments to stability.
As investors we value high growth and rapid improvement in margins. We value new manufacturing technologies. Those are distinctly not stable.

When ratings fail it is either because of fraud (e.g. Enron), large structural changes not obvious from pure financial statements (e.g.Lehman, AIG) or gradual deterioration led to sudden failure (e.g.Penn Central). All of those were visible risks, but all (except Enron, perhaps) were preceded by easily observable problems that were ignored. Bond ratings almost never consider 'subtleties' ('this' because it really means being superficial). On a purely statistical basis, pretty much the rule for rating agencies, disruptive technologies and events are mostly ignored.

High bond ratings thus require, as a general rule, large volumes of ratable securities plus long stability. Disruption is the enemy of stability!


If Tesla achieves investment grade soon (whatever 'soon' might be) it will really be a huge outlier in rating agency practice. It might happen but if it does I, for one, will be astonished. I hope I will soon be astonished. Even with that many Institutional Investors will still be reticent to invest in something so unstable, fast growing and flamboyant.

As investors we have an entirely different and largely incompatible vision.
I'd see it as more "certainty of repayment" rather than "stability" that gets their motor running - A nuanced difference perhaps, however I believe it is a relevant one.

To expand on the point - if we look at the Aaa requirements for Moodys (as the limit example) it is helpful to have faster Unit Share growth (10% of the criteria) and wider Profitability and Efficiency margins (20% of the criteria) - but it is rare to find an automotive company that can grow and improve those metrics rapidly without taking on a lot of debt (which hit the Leverage and Coverage requirements listed below (30% of criteria)). There can't be any real weaknesses in any of the criteria to get the rating upgrade.

Frequent model launches is also listed as a requirement in the Market Position requirement - I would consider this an item that improves "certainty of repayment" as, in theory, it is improving the demand for the OEM's product, while at the same time reducing "stability" as there are new design, manufacturing and supply chain issues arising from the new product (along with their associated risks).

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1067 at the wheel!

You’d need 1,270hp+ at the crank to equal that with ICE, since the transmission eats about 16% of power… No transmission reduces losses greatly. The power in the rear doesn’t even need to pass through a differential!

Then when you factor in not needing to shift (an accelerating car, even with a fast DCT will spend 10%+ of its time shifting) and that ICE engine’s power figures are peak figures and not the average amount of power it’ll put down during an acceleration run in a gear, this is how it can beat a 1500hp Bugatti Chiron in acceleration.
Only 1067hp at the wheel. That's a relief, guess I can safely switch from "Sport" to "Plaid" mode...