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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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It hurts my brain less to think about it this way:
There is a revolution of ICE automobiles changing to EVs.
There is also a revolution of ICE automobile manufacturers changing to EVs.
F, GM, etc ... live in the second space.
Like the internal issues of civilizations on a planet that is not part of the Culture.
Wheres Tesla is Excession.
 
It has- but it continues to do so significantly slower than new vehicle sales.... SC coverage is an issue even Elon admitted was a problem (he called it a foolish oversight) at least as early as 2018 where he said they'd not only fix it, but they'd cover all "major regions of NA (not just big cities) within 3-6 months"... 3+ years later that's still not done and there remain a bunch of US states with zero service centers... (also their lumping showroom and service centers together muddles the data a bit... I've certainly seen locations that are showroom ONLY which doesn't help anyone needing service).

As recently as a few months ago he was still replying to such complaints on twitter promising to "expedite" more openings.

The other issue (apart from the obvious covid stuff where everyone has trouble hiring right now) is we've seen many folks report while waiting for parts having been told by their SC that the wait is because Tesla is prioritizing new parts going into new cars, rather than to service centers to fix existing ones. More SCs makes that problem worse, but that's going to be a continually deeper dug hole as production continues to rise unless they can significantly increase spare parts production in general.


As all the previous times this has come up, as relates to Tesla needing to invest significantly more cash into this (which as investors seems pretty relevant)- it hasn't hurt sales in a meaningful way because demand for any decent EV is so high, and Tesla is a lot more than decent... but I do know folks in some areas (Iowa for example) that love the brand but absolutely wouldn't buy one if they need to go out of state for service- and yes they know about the rangers, and they know how less often in general EVs need service. Some folks think as long as there's any order backlog there's no need to care about such folks- I think that's too short-term thinking as production continues to ramp aggressively.
I wanna mention Tesla's unique "rolling release" model of hardware iterations here - as they contantly revise/change/cut parts it seams to me more challenging to support a growing fleet of always non-latest generation i.e. my 2013 P85+ sunroof is version 2 or so - SeC told me if I need a fix they need to retrofit to the latest version first before they can provide parts - so it seams as not only does Tesla switch parts all the time, they also need to think about how to move between those iterations with retrofits - which get's more complex over time.
And as a bonus, Tesla now ships the same model from different countries, and different factories might have different iterations of the same model at the same time ....

To me that justifies Teslas focus on simple product palette - everyone thinks Tesla has less model types than big-auto - but in reality cars from a few months apart are more variied than big-auto where model changes have fewer occurances.
 
I wanna mention Tesla's unique "rolling release" model of hardware iterations here - as they contantly revise/change/cut parts it seams to me more challenging to support a growing fleet of always non-latest generation i.e. my 2013 P85+ sunroof is version 2 or so - SeC told me if I need a fix they need to retrofit to the latest version first before they can provide parts - so it seams as not only does Tesla switch parts all the time, they also need to think about how to move between those iterations with retrofits - which get's more complex over time.
And as a bonus, Tesla now ships the same model from different countries, and different factories might have different iterations of the same model at the same time ....

To me that justifies Teslas focus on simple product palette - everyone thinks Tesla has less model types than big-auto - but in reality cars from a few months apart are more variied than big-auto where model changes have fewer occurances.
I agree with what your sentiment here is, but also think of this as refining the products as the number shipped is "low". If you can make them bulletproof with the early adopters the likelihood of replacement gets lower as the product ramps. Such that current issues with HVAC, get sorted out early on in the S curve and as the deliveries grow the car gets more and more reliable. I struggle sometimes not remembering how fast Tesla iterates, so when there is an issue, its out before the next conventional "model year". Assuming they can keep quality and reliability high, the need for service isn't the same linearity as the traditional automakers.

Let's hope this trend and focus can continue.
 
Indeed some milestones have probably been met in order for Elon to go on the call and talk about the product roadmap.

I believe these updates will be very interesting to us hardcore Tesla fans/investors, but I don't think these updates will concern short term events that have great effect on the stock price (for example "CT deliveries starting Q3").

I'm more of the mentality that Elon wants to temper expectations regarding CT this year, and how 2022 will be the year of "4680 production hell" and that we shouldn't expect too much until EOY.

Either way I'm very interested in the information we'll receive tonight. How the stock price reacts is of lesser importance.
Fortunately I think Zach has a pretty clear and easily navigated roadmap here. Wall street is going to focus solely on 2022 guidance. The standard "50% or more" should be fine, as it's above street expectation, but some more aggressive language could blow the roof off IMO. I don't see Zach doing that since his standard move is to under-promise, but we'll see.

From there, Elon can give all the updates he wants. We'll get excited beyond belief......and the street won't care/understand. Fortunately for the share price, the numbers will be insane and reset all the algos.
 
FSD is extremely relevant today, especially for option traders. The market will start pricing in FSD when they start believing it can become a reality one day. This will happen much sooner than FSD actually working perfectly and being approved by regulators. It's very hard to know when and what will trigger this change in mindset, but this can happen anytime. It could take 5 years, but 5months is also very possible with all the new releases.

Exactly. Let's try a little thought experiment to illustrate the point: Imagine you could go back in time 10 years to 2012. Would you post on TMC telling @Krugerrand that they SHOULDN'T back up the truck and buy bucketloads of TSLA stock at $6/share? "Ooh, you gots plenty o'time, wot's yer hurry. That's DEAD MONEY!"

So who's holding the bag now, and who's the bagholder? FSD will cause a bigger % gain in TSLA in the next 10 years than there has been since the IPO.

Imma get a new cat, and call her "Moneybag". :p

cc7100f5ebe73b5cda9c8a949f56cfd7.jpg


Cheers to the Longs!
 
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I think its too soon for a Roadster update. 4680's need to scale into production before Tesla can even think of making the Roadster. More likely late this year or sometime next year for Roadster news.

If Roadster is to be assembled in Fremont on the new S/X "Palladium" line, then its 4680 cell supply will almost certainly come from Kato Rd (10 GWh/yr planned capacity).

So, Roadster can go into production as soon as Giga Texas is independant for 4680s. Obviously, Semi can use some of those Kato cells in the first years of production, until the 2nd larger Semi GA line is running in Austin.

TL;dr I expect to hear a basic update on 4680 progress from the 30,000' level, with some fog near the Arpt... :p

Cheers!
 
Top negative arguments when speaking to german peers on tesla are build quality and service -

OK, then, I see Germans read the mainstream media too. How many articles do they write on bad service at legacy Dealerships and state it as if it were a known fact? Why don't the horror stories that happen every day at big tire chain stores, oil change chains, Nissan, Volvo, VW, GM, Ford, et al, make the news? I feel the last place we should be re-propagating media bias is right here on TMC.

Those of you who know me know that I'm an investor that measures investment opportunities on long-term fundamental metrics using risk/reward analysis. That means this is an issue that I think goes right to the heart of an investment in TSLA. I can't just look the other way once it is claimed this threatens the success of Tesla. It needs to be addressed but it pains me to see how people are analyzing it in a woefully inadequate manner. It requires rigorous analysis and that is not what it is getting from the media or, sadly, from the Tesla community. This is a very fundamental topic to an investment in TSLA.

You will also remember in 2019 how the media was endlessly stating as a fact that the competition was coming, and it was going to be fierce. Also, that Tesla had a demand problem and was on the verge of bankruptcy. I was constantly saying there was no demand problem as far as the eye can see. Yet, in 2019, people didn't know what to believe because the media voices were so loud and so adamant that this was a problem. People thought Tesla actually did have a demand problem for their electric cars. It was stated as a fact many times that after the "Tesla fan bois" had bought, demand would fall off a cliff. Alternatively, when the tax credits ended, no one would buy a Tesla. Yet they presented no data to support these claims - it was supposed to be self-evident.

Now that it's obvious those were false claims, now that Tesla is selling every car they can make for as far as the eye can see, they have switched to something harder to debunk - that Tesla has a terrible service network, worse than the ICE service network. It's a nightmare that is threatening to bring Tesla down. Yet, these conclusions are stated as a fact without adequate data, without random sampling and mostly using antidotal evidence of poor Tesla service experiences without supplying data comparing it to the ICE service experience. This matters because consumers have an alternative to Tesla, namely ICE.

Rather than employing the same error of analysis using antidotal examples by saying I have had X number of Tesla service experiences and they all ranged from good to excellent while my ICE service experiences range from fairly good all the way down to infuriatingly terrible, I suggest investors need to use more rigorous, more creative thinking. I think the most obvious thing that points towards a possible error in analysis is the simple fact that Tesla still wins the highest ratings in consumer satisfaction and "likely to re-purchase the same brand" metrics. Any thinking person has to question this when trying to analyze the accuracy of the claim that Tesla's terrible service threatens to bring Tesla down. Why do these two metrics remain at the very top of all auto brands every year?

The "service issue is a problem" needs to be analyzed in a competent manner which means avoiding the temptation of using media reports of antidotal incidents and applying them to the general population of Tesla owners. First principles thinking must be used which means any analysis must use random sampling of comprehensive data in a rigorous way. This data is hard to come by so the FUDsters have a productive method of attack here and I can see that it is effective, even on some loyal, die-hard Tesla owners. But Tesla has the necessary data and they address this very issue on just about every earnings call. Please listen for this on today's call and realize that Tesla is watching and reacting to this data so they can grow the organization in a smart, capital efficient manner.

built quality everyone thinks will be adressed by made in germany this year - but service is still bad, you can watch KnowYouKnow video on details -

No, you can't watch NowYouKnow video for the details because that segment is awfully light on details and facts, it's complete psuedo-science the way they use made up numbers and 'facts', combined with antidotal evidence, to try to prove their point. They honestly are embarrassingly incompetent when it comes to comparing ICE service to Tesla. I get it, they have some bad service centers in Massachusetts. That needs to be fixed. But to interpret the media FUD through that local Massachusetts lens and apply it to Tesla's entire service organization is embarrassingly amateurish. Because they really don't know what the rate of bad service is across Tesla's service network and how it compares to all ICE service experiences, although they act like they do know.

Look, Zach and Jesse are good guys, and they are on Tesla's side, but that doesn't mean they are not making a major blunder of gigantic proportions here. I quit watching them for the most part over a year ago due to my observation that they did not use rigorous analysis of the topics covered, and this is one more glaring example of that. Data matters and it must be used properly to draw valid conclusions from it. Zach and Jesse butchered it.

As an investor one needs to constantly guard against faulty analysis because that almost always leads to poor performance. I recommend a quick glance at this to refresh just some of the issues with the NowYouKnow analysis:

 
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I agree with what your sentiment here is, but also think of this as refining the products as the number shipped is "low". If you can make them bulletproof with the early adopters the likelihood of replacement gets lower as the product ramps. Such that current issues with HVAC, get sorted out early on in the S curve and as the deliveries grow the car gets more and more reliable. I struggle sometimes not remembering how fast Tesla iterates, so when there is an issue, its out before the next conventional "model year". Assuming they can keep quality and reliability high, the need for service isn't the same linearity as the traditional automakers.

Let's hope this trend and focus can continue.

Last one on this topic - there are examples where you jut get a better version of a part i.e. the doorhandles of the Model S today can be retrofitted to 2012 and they are vastly supperior in any way - GREAT

But there are things that have dependencies in between i.e. my 2013 TPMS is the old Baolong one - I have one defect tpms-sensor in the wheelwell - Tesla does not provide tools/parts on this - so I need to purchase the Conti TPMS Retrofit for my car which is quite an effort to put in.

I'm not saying Tesla does it wrong or it's the wrong way - SRE/DevOps/CI-CD/RollingRelease is the way to go for Hardware as well - but sometimes removing complexity from the line adds complexity in support. Would I ever have expected to retrofit an MCU2 or CCS into a 7 year old car from the original manufacturer - no - but Tesla offers it - GREAT
 
Elon TOLD investors to pay attention to Batteries and FSD duirng the 2019 AGM Q&A, and yet somehow you resist. Is it that some very basic, pre-frontal level of abstraction, don't believe in exponetials?

If you don't, I suggest you are in danger of selling. JMO.


HTH. #DOJO
Nice!
Moral of story: be like Mira!
(if you like rice).
 
The Microsoft price movements have been insane. Very glad its recovered, Hopefully wall street has figured out that a GOOD beat is going to go up, and they won't play it down. Cant wait to see what a GREAT beat does.
Thanks for pointing this out. I wasn't checking MSFT today but this information changes my opinion on what Tesla needs to post for positive traction.