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This Caught My Attention
I know that FSD is a touchy subject at the moment but this Deutsche Bank (DB) comment caught my attention.
Speaking with Tesla Investor Relations after the call:
“Tesla’s goal is for FSD to reach what is considered Level 4 autonomy by regulators by the end of this year. As such, Tesla will start to seek approval from regulators for a release by the end of 2022.”
Yes, but they also write how they expect to recognize their FSD software revenue every year on the 10Q for the past 3 years.

There are so many things to do in order for FSD to be "unsupervised". They haven't collected that data on beta fleet wide release yet with V11. So as of today they have no idea how "unsupervised" it is. Not to mention Elon said lots of things will need to be re-trained. Lastly the program is not even done, or else it would be released by now if intervention per miles truly drop significantly.
 
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too much shuffling past few days and my personal account got flagged as pattern day trader - last trade that tipped it was made by mistake
- bonus - account now has 7 digit day trading margin available ... holy ...canoly --- ain't touching a single penny
:)

You mean you intend to pass up the opportunity to show us what not to do?
 
Wall St. decided to 'play the man, not the ball' years ago with the very first NY Times hit piece on the original roadster. They've plumbed 6 levels of hell since, and now Elon's the one still standing, and laughing in their faces.

"People are betting against his style". Apparently CNBC deleted this video from their archives. This is from 2019.

 
Yes, but they also write how they expect to recognize their FSD software revenue every year on the 10Q for the past 3 years.


Not to mention it remains unclear who these "regulators" are.

L4 FSD would already be legal to roll out right now in at least 6 or 7 US states.

Federally, there is no approval required from anyone.

Most of the other states don't have an approval process either for consumer rollout, but may have some testing rules in place.


So the easiest path to showing the system is safe at L4, assuming they believe it is, would be to simply roll it out in the states it's already allowed- then be able to show anyone else how good the stats are from those states.

I mean, there are more specific regulators in say the EU, but it's been pretty clear the US would be the first place for rollout given it's the only place they've done the beta at all.
 
Not to mention it remains unclear who these "regulators" are.

L4 FSD would already be legal to roll out right now in at least 6 or 7 US states.

Federally, there is no approval required from anyone.

Most of the other states don't have an approval process either for consumer rollout, but may have some testing rules in place.


So the easiest path to showing the system is safe at L4, assuming they believe it is, would be to simply roll it out in the states it's already allowed- then be able to show anyone else how good the stats are from those states.

I mean, there are more specific regulators in say the EU, but it's been pretty clear the US would be the first place for rollout given it's the only place they've done the beta at all.
Probably regulators from California as FSD is probably the most reliable.
 
Not to mention it remains unclear who these "regulators" are.

L4 FSD would already be legal to roll out right now in at least 6 or 7 US states.

Federally, there is no approval required from anyone.

Most of the other states don't have an approval process either for consumer rollout, but may have some testing rules in place.


So the easiest path to showing the system is safe at L4, assuming they believe it is, would be to simply roll it out in the states it's already allowed- then be able to show anyone else how good the stats are from those states.

I mean, there are more specific regulators in say the EU, but it's been pretty clear the US would be the first place for rollout given it's the only place they've done the beta at all.

You may be technically correct on what is legally possible, but the more diplomatic approach may be to work with NHTSA proactively.
 
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100% agree. He's been in damage control mode on Twitter since the call.
I tend to agree. I suspect this will be the case going forward for a bit. We are long so don’t really plan on cashing out till after 2028 or so. In the big scheme of things this is a blip. And at our age a pretty small part of the portfolio.

I do see stagnation for the stock price for this year though. Or at least until more solid timelines come out for other vehicle products.

FSD is a wild card but as unpopular as it is to say it here I think FSD city beta wide release is a year or two away. And LEVEL 4 robotaxi type FSD is still probably closer to end of this decade.

JMHO.

Stay safe all.
 
I agree completely. As a group of fanboys, we understand where EM comes from, but he completely fumbled the messages (which then completely overshadowed the unbelievable year of growth in production and profit). There is a separate medium for his aspirations like AI day, Batttery day etc…
The fanboy in all of us are coming up with all kind of excuses/rationale to ease our disappointment of the disastrous results of the Q4 call!
The substance of what Elon said was great, the interpretation by others poor.

There are 2 parties in any communication, both have to make an effort.

And the market reaction isn't necessarily a measure of how well the message was understood. I think many understood better than they pretended to understand.

Elon always calls it how he sees it, often that is hard to understand and Elon isn't great at understanding how others might interpret his comments.

It is best to consider temporary or pretend misunderstanding is a risk that can occur at anytime.
 
Hopefully more of you see stagnation for the stock in 2022 and place bets on that. That is when Wall St. will move it up.

The reason we’re down is because majority sentiment started thinking there was a straight line to 1500, 2000, 3000. There remains a pretty clear path to that, but they will bend the rules along the way (revaluation!) to make it a little less predictable.
 
I'm thankful people showed restraint on making posts regarding GREEN when we had about 80 color flips today. One of them particularly disheartening when we went from 3% up to 2% down.

It's frustrating to see the day in red and us catching up on pages of pre-emptive football spiking so thanks for that. :)

I hoped those leveraged in options used the green to get some insurance going into more volatility.
 
You may be technically correct on what is legally possible, but the more diplomatic approach may be to work with NHTSA proactively.

Work with them how?

There are literally no federal regulations Tesla needs to comply with, or even can comply with, other than those that already apply to non-automated cars.

Self driving is not currently regulated, at all, by the NHTSA- they have intentionally and explicitly left it up to the individual states.

Some of which already allow it, others of which do not yet.


The actual US AV policy even states-

AV policy said:
Is NHTSA approval needed prior to testing or deployment of automated vehicles?

The AV Policy explains that, under current law, manufacturers are required to self-certify compliance with the NHTSA safety standards. There is no requirement for pre-approval by NHTSA, nor does NHTSA have authority to require manufacturers to obtain pre-approval.
 
"People are betting against his style". Apparently CNBC deleted this video from their archives. This is from 2019.


But its the awe-inspiring BREADTH of the opposition thats mind boggling: From NY Times, to CNBC, to Bloomberg, to Airanna Huffington, to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. He11, they even got the founder of the amazing "Climate Progress" blog, Joe Romm, to write some hit-pieces on Tesla cars not being good for the friken environment!! And now, POTUS.

This CAN NOT be a coincidence. There is too much coordination, and common messaging. This is a well-funded and CENTRALLY-run PR campaign with the sole objective of destroying Elon Musk and killing Tesla before it gets too big to be controlled. Don't fool yourself; those same 'environ-mentals' at NABU in Berlin are funded by whoever is doing all this. We may never find out who it is responsible, but I'll wager that JPMorgan knows (and took some of their $$$).

Luckily for us, Elon won't quit, and he's winning. As Uncle Jack used to tell us in his Friday 'fireside chats', one man has them surrounded, out-numbered, and out-gunned (R.I.P. Jack). Thanks for all the thankless sh!t you put up with Elon, to make this work. Love you, Brother.

/rant
 
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I think that Tesla will have robots based on their FSD chip doing useful work in the factory THIS YEAR. May not be much but they will be making a legitimate contribution. It may not be a balance bot but he did mention wheeled robots.
From a software perspective, one would think Optimus should be able to launch much sooner than FSD, especially for a defined set of actions in a set location.

No idea on how hard the balanced bi-pedal solution will be, but Tesla excels at physical engineering so I‘m pretty optimistic they will be able to crack that fairly swiftly (if they haven’t already)
 
Elon has a long history of predicting full self driving just around the corner. This earnings call was the second time he said he’d be “shocked “ if it is not there within a year.

Elon Jan 26, 2022 (earnings call)
“And there's several profound improvements to the FSD stack that are coming, you know, in the next few months. So, yeah, I would be shocked if we do not achieve full self-driving safer than human this year. I would be shocked.”

Elon, April 2019: "I think it will become very, very quickly, maybe even towards the end of this year – but I'd say, I'd be shocked if it's not next year at the latest – that having a human intervene will decrease safety,"

A pessimist may infer that since his first prediction failed, his second prediction can be disregarded . To be fair, there are numerous examples, from the 2017
coast-to-coast demonstration drive, to robotaxis operating somewhere before the end of 2020, to several successive “two weeks” predictions. He’s admitted to being optimistic in his predictions.

However, he’s become more guarded with bold FSD predictions since at least the summer of 2021. He even joked about the two weeks on one occasion. It has been embarrassing, he knows it, and he has seemingly taken it to heart. So why risk his reputation now on another bold statement?

The first time he said he’d be shocked if it wasn’t superhuman by next year, they had just introduced navigate on Autopilot. Highway driving required very few interventions. Extrapolating to city driving was quite a leap, as it turns out. Now it’s easier to extrapolate. There are very few new behaviors to be learned, so it’s mostly extrapolating how long it will take to get the number of interventions down to a certain level. Much easier! Elon knows much more than we do, and since the extrapolation is much simpler now, I think this is the time Elon will finally get it right.
 
Here's what happened:

Yes, traditional money on Wall Street, funds, money managers, etc. think in a very formal, regimented, restricted manner. I call it stupid although they are not really stupid (but that is essentially how it plays out in situations like these). They have to model the most likely earnings looking forward to assign value to the shares today. They cannot model things that don't fit their model. That means any talk of humanoid robots they don't know what to do with. Any talk of FSD, they cannot put in their spreadsheet. How do you model "nutty"? But the worst part is, once Elon said the economy car was not being worked on and the Cybertruck has a somewhat nebulous timeline, they can't model revenues for those things either. And they can't understand that the market has huge ability to absorb far more Model 3's and Model Y's than current sales/production. So they can't model that many of each car model because that would make both of them the best-selling cars, period. Gas or electric Yet EV's are only 6% of global sales. They can't compute this. They think Tesla needs more car models to distribute the volume of sales Tesla is forecasting because that's how the auto industry works.

That means TSLA ownership is only for those who "get it". Meanwhile Tesla will continue to build production capacity which will result in quarter after quarter of record sales. As the new factories ramp into efficient production their margins will be crazy high because they didn't spend a bunch of money spreading their production around more models than necessary. He even told us the 4680 cells are ramping up as we speak, both in-house and at partner factories, and it flew right over the heads of those who sold/decided not to buy. Remember, it's all about the batteries.

I can't say how long it will take for the price to recover, but eventually reality will start to sink in and the price will get bid back up. My feeling is Elon purposefully disenfranchised anyone too idiotic to see what is happening right before their eyes. He really doesn't give a flying frack because he doesn't want to work for people like that (yes, he works for shareholders). He knows he is going to make a lot of people very wealthy and he thinks it's better if it goes to the kind of people he likes rather than those he despises. The beauty of all this is it didn't require anything but pure honesty from Elon. Sure, he might have hammed it up a little bit but essentially, he was giving us the straight scoop on how nutty the profits are going to be and giving the finger to those he doesn't like.

But that's not all. Elon works his magic by taking actions that solve multiple things at once. And a low share price is good for Tesla's next phase of expansion in terms of attracting talent. Elon doesn't give all this much thought because he's a visionary. He just sees the future he wants to create and takes steps that sets big things in motion, that pushes towards the desired outcome. It's not a cold, calculated, if A, then B. This is what vision is and he doesn't fret over the details. He doesn't see this in words in his mind, it happens in cascades of visions. It's the source of his particular form of magic. It's not really magic but the superior results he delivers can make it look like magic to someone who doesn't understand how he can accomplish so much, how things seem to go his way an inordinate amount of the time.

A conventionally thinking CEO judges they did a good job on a conference call if the share price rises during and after the call. Higher share price is good, right? Success! Elon takes a bigger view. He did well on the call if he sets off a chain of events that allows greater success down the road. He needs to get the dominoes lined up. Because he knows true success is not a high share price. True success is hard. It's the success that made that high share price possible and we are still in the early stages. I'm sure there is a lot more depth to his vision than I'm even aware of. He's probably killing 3 or 4 birds with one stone, Part of it might simply be because it's more fun being CEO of Tesla when he can draw out the doubters and naysayers and them give them a good slapping. He's not worried because he knows the share price will eventually take care of itself.

It's not the first time he's done this. Those who like non-volatile stocks or need some handholding on future projections can shop elsewhere, for everyone else, it's a buying opportunity. This is why I focus on the company's execution rather the share price.
This post deserves to be in Hall of Fame. Simple, clear and elegant.
 
Work with them how?

There are literally no federal regulations Tesla needs to comply with, or even can comply with, other than those that already apply to non-automated cars.

Self driving is not currently regulated, at all, by the NHTSA- they have intentionally and explicitly left it up to the individual states.

Some of which already allow it, others of which do not yet.


The actual US AV policy even states-

Correct, it is currently the wild, wild West. You can decide to either race into that and say, “There were no rules that said we couldn’t!“ or you can work with the regulatory body that has expressed a desire to establish regulations to make them reasonable and logical.

People like to paint Tesla as rebellious and irresponsible, especially those that wish to smear FSD Beta as some kind of danger to society, but the truth is Tesla is much more likely to want to be a part of the solution in this regard than the problem. And that will be better for Tesla in the long-run anyway.
 
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But its the awe-inspiring BREADTH of the opposition that's mind boggling: From NY Times, to CNBC, to Bloomberg, to Airanna Huffinton, to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. He11, they even got the founder of the amazing "Climate Progress" blog, Joe Romm, to write a few hit-pieces on Tesla cars not being good for the friken environment!! And now, POTUS.

This CAN NOT be a coincidence. There is to much coordination, and common messaging. This is a well-funded and CENTRALLY-run PR campaigne with the sole objective of destroying Elon Musk and killing Tesla before it gets too big to be controlled. Don't fool yourself; those same 'environmental' NABUs in Berlin are funded by whoever is doing this. We may never find out who's responsible, but I'll wager that JPMorgan knows (and took some of the $$).

Luckily for use, Elon won't quit, and he's winning. As Uncle Jack used to tell us in his Friday 'fireside chats', one man has them surrounded, out-numbered, and out-gunned. R.I.P. Jack. Thanks for all the thankless sh!t you put up with Elon, to make this work. Love you, Brother.

/rant

Another way to put it is that there is one entity/group playing puppet master, able to align the self-interests of otherwise insignificant players into a common goal.

It should be self-evident that entity is the one with the most to lose if Tesla succeeds.
 
Now, he is starting to drift towards a highly lucrative product proposition ... pussy-cat -> sex-bot
That's what they should announce, and the stock price would jump straight to the moon, scratch that mars, maybe even pluto and beyond

"We can't control what after market add-on customers choose to use, like this assortment right here"