Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[lafrisbee]

That’s easy to answer. People have cats that they are thinking of. Or a dog. God forbid they have a kid or grandkid, but it’s apparently a thing.

Then there are people who want to do something good with that money beyond their own selfishness.

So what’s utterly pointless to you, has a valid point for others. You’ve obviously forgotten you’re not alone on this planet.

FTFY

 

[Mengy]

And honestly, if I were not so hypocritical about my principles, I would divest myself of TSLA for Musk's abysmal treatment of employees and his anti-union stance. Once upon a time I would not have touched an anti-union company.

I know two people who work for Tesla and one who works for the Boring Company, and all three of them love their jobs. They all say it's the best work environment and atmosphere they've ever been in. It's hard work and long hours but they're very happy. None of them want any kind of unions to get involved either, they say they simply don't need them.

So when I hear other people (who DON'T work for Musk) or FUD articles claiming how terrible it is working for Musk or how anti-union Tesla is, well I take them with a grain of salt. People I know who work for Musk state otherwise.

 

[JRP3]

it sounds like you've bought into much anti-Tesla FUD; do you have any proof about the latest round of accusations about Tesla treating employees poorly?

Examples please.

There seem to be repeated racial issues plaguing the company and potentially not as described in the Tesla blog post.

On page 10 of the lawsuit, DFEH took issue with Tesla’s blog post, suggesting in a footnote that the reference to almost 50 instances of complaints being closed without misconduct findings was misleading.

“It is unclear which administrative complaints Tesla refers to, but many resulted in an immediate request for a right to sue,” the agency said.

On page 12, DFEH said in another footnote that, contrary to the blog post, both the agency and Tesla’s workers have raised concerns about workplace practices for years. “They still do, as complaints were filed as recently as 2022,” the agency said.

Tesla Front-Runs Another Regulator, This Time in a Race Case

(Bloomberg) -- Most Read from BloombergElon Musk Donated $5.7 Billion of Tesla Shares to CharityTrump's Accountants Just Quit. What Took So Long?U.S. Offers Support After Banks Face Cyber Hit: Ukraine UpdateU.S. Accuses Zero Hedge of Spreading Russian PropagandaPutin Seeks Diplomatic Solution...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Speedr117]

Examples please.

Asking for hard work and perhaps a work/life balance that many would find difficult...sure, but one knows that going in.

Making many of his worker's millionaires....that seems a nice problem to have.

I think we've all worked long hours, and under less than ideal situations, at one time or another during our lives. And most of us didn't become millionaires in the process.

I think what most people have a hard time visualizing (along with exponential growth), is that a moment in time is not forever. If you look at what the lifestyle of doctor residency is, or first or second year wall street bankers, you'll find it's common to literally work almost every waking second. That doesn't mean that's the way it'll be for their whole life...

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

That’s easy to answer. People have kids and grandkids that they are thinking of. Or a cat. God forbid they have a dog, but it’s apparently a thing.

Then there are people who want to do something good with that money beyond their own selfishness.

So what’s utterly pointless to you, has a valid point for others. You’ve obviously forgotten you’re not alone on this planet.

I'ld argue that someone spending money on pretty much anything now instead of potentially donate to something in 25 years are more unselfish just by creating jobs, income, taxes right now instead of some distant future.

Kids and grandkids should get no more than a fair chance at education. Which is only an issue in a few countries.

I included doing something good in doing something interesting as I'm involved in a few projects helping others.

Spending money on cat food though. I'll count that as both meaningless and selfish

 

[scaesare]

There seem to be repeated racial issues plaguing the company and potentially not as described in the Tesla blog post.

Tesla Front-Runs Another Regulator, This Time in a Race Case

(Bloomberg) -- Most Read from BloombergElon Musk Donated $5.7 Billion of Tesla Shares to CharityTrump's Accountants Just Quit. What Took So Long?U.S. Offers Support After Banks Face Cyber Hit: Ukraine UpdateU.S. Accuses Zero Hedge of Spreading Russian PropagandaPutin Seeks Diplomatic Solution...

finance.yahoo.com

I'll point out that's a Dana Hull article... one not exactly known for their neutral reporting.

 

[KMCC]

I can totally relate to this. I'm in my mid-fifties and live in Scandinavia. So unlike some of you I don't need a big nest egg for potential healthcare at old age. With no dependents I figure that if I'm still alive when I'm 80 I will get by fine on my regular pension. Figuring as by that age I'll likely be spending a lot less.

So I plan to have little savings when I'm around 80. That gives me 25 years or so to spend any 'wealth' I have in a fun and/or interesting way. Live in a nicer place, eat nicer, travel more, spend more at my girlfriend etc etc

But, it also means that for every year that goes before I start some 'spending' I loose something like 4% (1/25) of my remaining life. I'm looking at that as 4% inflation. In reality it's much worse. Given the choice nobody would not want to have 25 times as much money with one year left to spend it. I rather have 1/25th as much per year for 25 years.

Frankly I see so many here older than me just going hold hold hold - I'll never sell any share. Seems utterly pointless to me.

This is why I want the shareprice to go up fast rather than slow and why I care when we go down. If we are at 25k or something in 25 years from now won't do me much good. I'll either be dead or unable to spend it.

I am only holding holding holding because Tesla has been good to me and I believe in Tesla my holdings will go to my children when I die or possibly even partly a charity but I will hold and never sell.

 

[Unpilot]

There seem to be repeated racial issues plaguing the company and potentially not as described in the Tesla blog post.

Any large company with many thousands of employees will have a certain number of people who "feel" they were treated poorly.

There are probably some legitimate issues and valid complaints....however, I do not believe for a second this is systemic at Tesla.

 

[Big Time]

Ok so according to my research statement made by master of coin about 4680 deliveries puts Austin opening in…..two weeks?

Hope he wasn’t telling white lies.

 

[thx1139]

Ok so according to my research statement made by master of coin about 4680 deliveries puts Austin opening in…..two weeks?

Hope he wasn’t telling white lies.

I dont think any will be delivered until April 1st. I think with accounting rules they will just store them/move them around and deliver beginning of April.

 

[bkp_duke]

There seem to be repeated racial issues plaguing the company and potentially not as described in the Tesla blog post.

Tesla Front-Runs Another Regulator, This Time in a Race Case

(Bloomberg) -- Most Read from BloombergElon Musk Donated $5.7 Billion of Tesla Shares to CharityTrump's Accountants Just Quit. What Took So Long?U.S. Offers Support After Banks Face Cyber Hit: Ukraine UpdateU.S. Accuses Zero Hedge of Spreading Russian PropagandaPutin Seeks Diplomatic Solution...

finance.yahoo.com

I'm going to take Tesla's word over the bureaucrats in Sacramento. Certain Sacramento gov entities have a history of going after people and companies leaving or perceived to be leaving the state (ahem, Hyatt is the big example). At least until the evidence is presented in a fair and unbiased manner for all to see.

 

[takeshikov]

Really the video was done by Taylor Ogan. Wow CNBC fails

Why this video has 0 dislikes ?

 

[Paul_SF]

Why this video has 0 dislikes ?

YT changed their Dislike display. You can dislike but they won’t show the numbers. It will be even better if people stop sharing that crap, I have a feeling the Tesla community is actually helping them spread that crap, unfortunately.

 

[Baumisch]

Matrix LED headlights are not Tesla specific. Hella supplies them to Tesla as well as to Audi for example.
Several manufacturers mentioned here for example: Matrix LED Headlights: Redefine Adaptive Front-lighting With Smart High Beam Technology

That said, IIRC the Tesla version has a new LED array from Samsung with a higher resolution than available before.

What about Laser Headlights?
i.e. BMW had one of the first cars with laser lights in 2013 with the i8 in the triple digits - now you can get laser lights on most mid-range BMW vehicles as option package. I guess that's the disadvantage of vertical integration - you can't just buy into all fancy features from suppliers like HELA in this case - you need to pick and choose battles - so no Laser lights, no HUD, no massage seats etc ...

 

[Paul_SF]

It’s like Dave follows this forum or something. /s

 

[JRP3]

I'll point out that's a Dana Hull article... one not exactly known for their neutral reporting.

Of course but she's had a mixed history of reporting, very fair in the early days, then trending towards FUD for a while, and lately more fair again. She's not Kolodny or Lopez level.

 

[JRP3]

Any large company with many thousands of employees will have a certain number of people who "feel" they were treated poorly.

There are probably some legitimate issues and valid complaints....however, I do not believe for a second this is systemic at Tesla.

I can see Elon down playing issues and wanting workers to "suck it up", and that might be misinterpreted by management, leading actual problems to be ignored. That could be a systemic failure.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I can see Elon down playing issues and wanting workers to "suck it up", and that might be misinterpreted by management, leading actual problems to be ignored. That could be a systemic failure.

I can see things like that happening as management under pressure to get work done and doing the minimum instead of stamping it out. Evil, good men etc.

The easiest "fix" to problems like that in a work environment is normally to move the victim, instead of fixing the perpetrators. The consequence would be segregation and limiting opportunities.

 

[UncaNed]

I'ld argue that someone spending money on pretty much anything now instead of potentially donate to something in 25 years are more unselfish just by creating jobs, income, taxes right now instead of some distant future.

Kids and grandkids should get no more than a fair chance at education. Which is only an issue in a few countries.

I included doing something good in doing something interesting as I'm involved in a few projects helping others.

Spending money on cat food though. I'll count that as both meaningless and selfish

Some of the best money I ever spent was on cat food.

Also that David Lee stock/diversification was his most pointless and tedious yet.

 

[growler23]

Interesting take.

Thank you for the added insights, but this part leaves me speechless TBH:

"My real investments are safe mutual funds . . . ".

The reality is that "safe mutual funds" are anything but in a disruptive environment as we face a serious, potentially catastrophic, climate disaster.

Please allow me to list two reasons:

1. Mutual funds nearly always invest for one specific goal: maximize returns. Thus, this often leads them to invest in companies that destroy the environment and place our planet in greater peril (such as fossil fuel companies), because doing so can be quite profitable, at least in the short term. (Oh, the planet's destroyed years later? Bummer, eh.) By owning shares in those mutual funds, you actively increase the risk to our planet, and all life on it.

2. Contrary to what you may believe, diversification is, frankly, unwise, and if often a hallmark of the less-well informed investor. Please watch this video for details:

While a "retirement mindset" may allow you to continue with investment choices made years ago, I urgently request that you and ALL on this thread do a complete scrub of their investments to purge their holdings of companies that increase the risk to our planet's future. All of them need to go.

Divest, now, please.

Let's leave a better legacy for all those that follow as our current one is a course towards disaster (positive feedback loops can ruin a planet).

This quote applies to stocks and investments as well:

“Every time you spend money, you're casting a vote for the kind of world you want.”​

― Anna Lappe

I have struggled with this too. The top-10 holdings in each of my mutual funds, for the most part, look pretty good (and sort of the same, tbh, Google, Apple, Tesla...) But they hold MANY stocks, and some of them further down are certainly going to be in companies that have fossil fuel interests or are direct FF producers.
I have run across third parties who appear to do their darndest to give us good information about mutual fund choices and individual company behavior despite the flood of opacity and greenwashing out there. I applaud these guys efforts, and am curious if anyone else uses them:

As You Sow is Promoting Corporate Accountability Through Shareholder Action

As You Sow is creating a more socially and environmentally-just society. Learn how we harness shareholder power to make this happen.

www.asyousow.org

Corporate Knights

The Voice for Clean Capitalism

www.corporateknights.com

It takes time to parse through their reports, but maybe it should. They show their criteria and data sources and they have frank discussions of the limitations of them, and they appear to me to be trying to dig through the layers of cover allowed by law (or at least practiced in the financial sector) to get to who is actually investing (CapEx and acquisitions), and making, good money while being environmentally responsible.

Not intended as investment advice but is intended to share honest attempts to find information about companies beyond Tesla not trying to destroy the environment during their profit making activities.

(And yes, Tesla appears as a good corporate citizen in their charts that I have seen.)