Why black out the person requesting this? Expose them for what they are
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Yep. Elon went on to say in another tweet that Rivian’s negative gross margins will be enormous.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
So what's weird is, my memory of the pricing timeline on EV trucks basically is:
Rivian announces expensive pricing.
Tesla announces much cheaper cybertruck pricing.
Rivian announces they're lowering their prices
All of this back in the 2019/2020 timeframe.
Story mentioning most of the above including the Rivian-lowers-in-response-to-CT stuff here:
electrek.co
So that gets us to today, where Tesla has since removed the original amazingly good looking pricing on the CT from the website, which itself was pretty widely reported.... and now Rivian is moving back to something like their original pre-CT-inspired price cut prices....
I mean, I get why Rivian might have felt they had to lower pricing in response to the original CT announcements.... but after today it seems like the results are gonna be a lot worse for them than if they'd just stuck with the original pricing and said "Yeah, we can't make these as cheap as Tesla- but we're still going to make a great EV truck and be first to market with it too, we hope you join us on the journey" or something like that.
Regarding Elons tweet on this, it's not the first time, especially recently, he's suggested CT pricing is gonna be higher than expected as well, though obviously it's still gonna beat Rivians.
AFAIK the only "official" word at all was this:
That said- given Teslas preference for minimum manufacturing complexity it does seem like only doing 2 and 4 motor variants is most likely... not sure what benefit of a 3-motor config would be worth having in comparison to those.
Rivian announces expensive pricing.
Tesla announces much cheaper cybertruck pricing.
Rivian announces they're lowering their prices
All of this back in the 2019/2020 timeframe.
Story mentioning most of the above including the Rivian-lowers-in-response-to-CT stuff here:
Rivian reveals new R1T electric pickup price, cheaper but still more expensive than Tesla Cybertruck
Rivian has released updated pricing for the R1T electric pickup and R1S electric SUV coming next year. They are cheaper,...
electrek.co
So that gets us to today, where Tesla has since removed the original amazingly good looking pricing on the CT from the website, which itself was pretty widely reported.... and now Rivian is moving back to something like their original pre-CT-inspired price cut prices....
I mean, I get why Rivian might have felt they had to lower pricing in response to the original CT announcements.... but after today it seems like the results are gonna be a lot worse for them than if they'd just stuck with the original pricing and said "Yeah, we can't make these as cheap as Tesla- but we're still going to make a great EV truck and be first to market with it too, we hope you join us on the journey" or something like that.
Regarding Elons tweet on this, it's not the first time, especially recently, he's suggested CT pricing is gonna be higher than expected as well, though obviously it's still gonna beat Rivians.
AFAIK the only "official" word at all was this:
That said- given Teslas preference for minimum manufacturing complexity it does seem like only doing 2 and 4 motor variants is most likely... not sure what benefit of a 3-motor config would be worth having in comparison to those.
My guess is that the 4 motor will be $80k and the 2 motor will probably be $55k. There will be no other models.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Between then and now, Rivian spent the entire summer of 2021 promoting the hell out of those unsustainable prices. Collected a huge pre-order roll. Then they launched their IPO using those same numbers paired with equally unattainable production numbers and completely impossible profit margins.
The difference is their IPO is over. Now they can move on to the next phase in their corporate lifecycle. The underwhelming results followed by the shareholder litigation phase.
thesmokingman
Active Member
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
If you think this newfound desire to avoid fossil fuels doesn't help Tesla energy in a huge manner, you are not looking far enough ahead. Every day fossil fuels continue to dominate amounts to billions of daily energy dollars directed the wrong way. This is a major world event that will not be forgottien and while it will not accelerate TSLA's results next quarter or even next year, it will increase momentum in that direction which will increase the urgency of demand across multiple sectors and cause Tesla to accelerate their investments on a larger scale with less risk. Batteries will be a huge part of grid reliability and load balancing as we make the transition to ever higher amounts of wind and solar and those battery faactories will need unimaginable amounts of raw materials.
This will light a fire under the entire renewable energy sector which accelerates investment all the way up the supply chain to the raw materials. Yes, there is momentum to projects like this so the results don't happen immediately, but I am a long-term investor and like how this is waking the people up. The sooner Putin loses power, the better.
I concede. Was a poorly made and reasoned point.
Well this is relevant. How is Tesla investing over $36 Billion and in what time frame?
they’re trash cans, plain and simple. and it is frustrating. but better off paying them no mind.
BrownOuttaSpec
Active Member
So now that Nikola, Lordstown Motors, Rivian and Lucid have dropped out of the "Competition is coming" race, who else is left? Ford (Who cant decide if they are going to spin of the EV as separate business sources or not)? Or GM (who sold 26 EVs last quarter)? Fisker (again, LOL) ?
Can't we just give a free pass to green light everything does Tesla already and stop playing these games?
Can't we just give a free pass to green light everything does Tesla already and stop playing these games?
What will be interesting is when fund managers reevaluate the decrease of competition and rerate Tesla's valuation...
It would be nice if the media just stopped with the sensationalism.
The narrative doesn’t need to be “XZY is going to crush Tesla next year!”. Mainstream media treats the EV space like it’s a small room where 20 companies are fighting for dominance. That just doesn’t represent reality and isn’t helpful to anyone.
We have 2 related markets. The EV market which has a 200 year future, and the ICE market which has a 5-10 year future. The fact that EVs will take over is inevitable at this point. The only question is who is making vehicles interesting enough to claim a space at the table.
Once you recognize that, the really interesting story isn’t whether Ford is going to crush Tesla, its whether they can get their trucks affordable enough to displace ICE trucks. If their trucks can’t displace ICE trucks… then it doesn’t matter if it’s better than the Cybertruck or not.
Similarly, the Cybertruck needs to be interesting enough to displace ICE, that’s the real competition here.
thesmokingman
Active Member
This kind of reminds me of the NBA and the constant whose the next GOAT. It's silly because in the modern era there will never be another GOAT, much the same way that there will never be another Tesla. No other brand can achieve what Tesla has in that time span, and they probably won't in the future since Tesla won't (knock on wood) be loafing around letting others catch up.
The real question out of the freshman EV start ups, is who will be left standing to come in second place. I think second place is a huge win for them. Rivian, Lucid, maybe even Fisker stand a good chance to produce more EVs than the legacies. That's the goal that the media should be writing about not this silly and kind of disrespectful, whose gonna be the next Tesla?
The real question out of the freshman EV start ups, is who will be left standing to come in second place. I think second place is a huge win for them. Rivian, Lucid, maybe even Fisker stand a good chance to produce more EVs than the legacies. That's the goal that the media should be writing about not this silly and kind of disrespectful, whose gonna be the next Tesla?
Just checked our reservation on our account page. Still says 3 motor. Wow. Also indicates we ordered FSD. Wonder if that price is locked.
IBM was the GOAT. Greatest of all Tech
Then Microsoft was the GOAT.
Then Apple was the GOAT.
Now for the moment anyhow Tesla is the GOAT.
The next GOAT won’t be competing head-head versus Tesla. It will be an oblique approach. Much like the last dozen or so times. The next big thing almost never becomes the next big thing by tackling strength versus strength.
Dropping a driveshaft at speed?
Peugeot 404 (loved that car) on the 405 freeway southbound just passing under Sunset Blvd at 5:15pm rush hour. As I was sliding sideways at 65 mph, getting a real close look at the double tank fuel hauler in the next lane, I thought to myself "I got to get rid of this bottle of beer between my legs".
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If any of you read any of my posts over the last 6-8 months on my experience working with Rivian, you'll not be surprised when I say, "none of this is surprising..."
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