Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[SageBrush]

The difference between Lucid being a legitimate company that goes bankrupt vs. it being a fraudulent company that goes bankrupt, is a matter of intent. And that is very hard to prove when the company is run by people who understand that difference. So, it will likely never be proven a fraud, even if it is.

But some early clues can be had by those who want to know what the likely intent really is. For a company like Lucid to be viable, they need to ramp through the difficult low-volume period as quickly as possible.

Probably without good reason, I have always viewed LUCID as a company that will be bought by a legacy. Would such a company burn through its capital at this stage ? I don't think there is a clear answer, particularly during this period of exceptionally high 'doing business' costs. Whatever makes them more attractive to their suitors, but either way is not a fraud.

 

[WADan]

Chinese Tesla owner turns his small village into Tesla village

A Tesla owner in China talked 30 other villagers into buying the electric car and turned his small home village into a Tesla village.

driveteslacanada.ca

Interesting!

 

[thesmokingman]

Chinese Tesla owner turns his small village into Tesla village

A Tesla owner in China talked 30 other villagers into buying the electric car and turned his small home village into a Tesla village.

driveteslacanada.ca

Interesting!

That is one of the most bizarre yet awesome things I've read in a while.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

The hearing is tomorrow. Highly unlikey any decision is announced tomorrow.

Actually, I remember the two German twitter people, Alex and Tobias, say that the ruling will come same day.

 

[Artful Dodger]

I wonder if Tesla bought the coal mine out, if they would have access to the full water contract that comes with it. They could shut down the mine, and have water to spare, and even sell.

That's tilting at windmills, I'm afraid. You see, there's actually lots of water available, and this narrative is fake. The "issue" was selected as a vulnerability by Tesla's opponents more than 2 years ago, providing a convenient way by which they could conduct endless litigation.

The intent is to slow down Telsa. Mission 1 accomplished: Giga Berlin is 9 mths late now. Their next move will be an attempt to limit Telsa's production (already complaining about Phase 2 water supply). That's how these faux enviros are able to ignore water usage by the coal mine: it's not part of their legal strategy.

I'm more curious to see how much funding for this legal assault actually disappears now that Russia has been ejected from the international finance system. There is an array of groups that are financially incentivized to hold back Tesla in Berlin.

 

[Nocturnal]

It's obvious that Ford is preparing to spin off the ICE business, along with it's debt, pension, and dealer obligations into a separate company. Then the taxpayer will foot the bill when that company fails. Bet on it.

I wonder if Tesla bought the coal mine out, if they would have access to the full water contract that comes with it. They could shut down the mine, and have water to spare, and even sell.

That would send the "environmentalists" into a tizzy!

 

[Drezil]

These faux 'enviros' are really bad at telegraphing their anti-Tesla strategy for Berlin. They've already let it be known that "there isn't enough wasser" for Phase 2, so you can guess the sequel to this movie.

Yet they are completely silent on the neighboring coal mine which uses 100x the amount of water that Tesla proposes to use, and with damaging effects.

The tailings from coal mines contain environmentally and biologically toxic elements, such as lead, mercury, nickel, tin, cadmium, antimony, and arsenic, as well as radio isotopes of thorium and strontium.

Where was all the environmental concern when that coal mine was approved? Pandora?

That was a neighboring county that does not supply much water to berlin .. so when it runs out there, then many citizens in berlin are not affected.
Only some fools that happens to live on a brown-coal-repository..

And it gives work to simple people! Not those high-tech silicon-valley-things that noone likes, because they are new ..

/s

Real reason: Having Energy is deemed "neccessary" and producing cars is not.

 

[FEERSUMENDJIN]

Won't Tesla still be "importing" into the UK regardless of which factory is the source?

Granted, the cost of shipping from Germany should be less, and reflected in the price to UK customers.

I would imagine that UK will be Shanghai supplied for quite a while yet. Shanghai has several RHD markets to feed. Makes little sense to prioritise RHD production in Berlin until well ramped..

 

[UkNorthampton]

[Edit: Doh! Forgot about FSD]

AFAIK, Tesla include all safety equipment as standard and prioritise safety. Others don't.

Arizona Supreme Court overrule previous ADAS case as part of ruling on a separate case from 2015.

Jeep can be sued for not including ADAS* (or bundling it with non-safety items like seat trims). Trial still to be held, but implications might force mandatory ADAS, unbundling safety from non-safety upgrades, perhaps even retrofit to old cars to save manufacturer's liability (my speculation).

*Advanced Driver Assistance Systems, auto braking

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I don't know, here in east PA all the Ford dealers seem to have Mach E's sitting on their lots unsold. And yep they are all marked up quite a bit too.

The elegance of Tesla's delivery system avoids the entire dealer drama, and legacy auto is going to have to find a way around their own dealer networks in order to compete with Tesla. That won't go smoothly.

Same in BC Canada. If you want a new EV most wait times are 3 to 9 months for most manufacturers. Except the Mach E. Lots of stock. Take your time and look around, they’ll still be there next week. Some of the left over 2021’s are coming down.

 

[Accident]

I wonder if Tesla bought the coal mine out, if they would have access to the full water contract that comes with it. They could shut down the mine, and have water to spare, and even sell.

The coal mine and power plant are 100 miles away from Giga Berlin. It's a different aquifer and well system.

 

[StealthP3D]

I have a sibling that wanted to buy a MachE, but the dealers here are charging a $15k markup on them. So she is sitting and waiting for that to come down. And their inventory will just keep sitting there.

Just one more example of the fact that the intelligence genes don't always get evenly distributed in a family, even between siblings with the same mother and father.

/s

 

[SageBrush]

That's tilting at windmills, I'm afraid. You see, there's actually lots of water available, and this narrative is fake. The "issue" was selected as a vulnerability by Tesla's opponents more than 2 years ago, providing a convenient way by which they could conduct endless litigation.

The intent is to slow down Telsa. Mission 1 accomplished: Giga Berlin is 9 mths late now. Their next move will be an attempt to limit Telsa's production (already complaining about Phase 2 water supply). That's how these faux enviros are able to ignore water usage by the coal mine: it's not part of their legal strategy.

I'm more curious to see how much funding for this legal assault actually disappears now that Russia has been ejected from the international finance system. There is an array of groups that are financially incentivized to hold back Tesla in Berlin.

Step #1: Tesla sparks a clean energy revolution
Step #2: The Coal mine shuts down
Step #3: The local water utility asks Tesla to increase its water use

As an aside, and as a self-described half crazed environmentalist, I have NO idea how the local Enviro groups let themselves be manipulated into doing the dirty work for the fossil/coal industries.

 

[15Peter20]

AFAIK, Tesla include all safety equipment as standard and prioritise safety. Others don't.

Arizona Supreme Court overrule previous ADAS case as part of ruling on a separate case from 2015.

Jeep can be sued for not including ADAS* (or bundling it with non-safety items like seat trims). Trial still to be held, but implications might force mandatory ADAS, unbundling safety from non-safety upgrades, perhaps even retrofit to old cars to save manufacturer's liability (my speculation).

*Advanced Driver Assistance Systems, auto braking

One day the FUDsters will try to show that FSD is safety critical and should be included with every Tesla as sold....



....having previously tried to convince the world FSD makes each car a mobile death-machine.

 

[bkp_duke]

Step #1: Tesla sparks a clean energy revolution
Step #2: The Coal mine shuts down
Step #3: The local water utility asks Tesla to increase its water use

As an aside, and as a self-described half crazed environmentalist, I have NO idea how the local Enviro groups let themselves be manipulated into doing the dirty work for the fossil/coal industries.

Because they are not real enviro groups at all. I would put good money that they were fully setup by FF industry from the get go. There isn't exactly a litmus test to prove you are who you say you are in this case.

 

[Rammstein]

Anyone else thinking we are being held down artificially until Friday and then will see it pop a bit on Monday?

 

[UkNorthampton]

One day the FUDsters will try to show that FSD is safety critical and should be included with every Tesla as sold....



....having previously tried to convince the world FSD makes each car a mobile death-machine.

Good point, edited my post... makes possibilities of court case multiply...

 

[Artful Dodger]

Anyone else thinking we are being held down artificially until Friday and then will see it pop a bit on Monday?

Yes.

 

[jbcarioca]

I was thinking about this...it seems until Russia's aspirations are "checked" in a long term fashion (I'm not sure what that looks like...if it's possible?), having a factory in the middle of what we see happening in Ukraine seems I'll advised.

It is, and if all this continues without check, it will be doubtful what the world will face. Thus, it seems prudent to plan for what happens if this war is resolved with the continued independence of Ukraine, the cessation of Empire dreams and change fo government in a positive way for Russia.

Today that seems naive, stupidly optimistic and unlikely. I have lived in four war zones during hostilities. I have too many years. With a single exception, three of the four have resolved with a fairly stable and prosperous economy. Not all have positive ends, and we all know. Still, it seems always quite proper to think, what if...and postulate a positive outcome.

 

[Cherry Wine]

Actually, I remember the two German twitter people, Alex and Tobias, say that the ruling will come same day.

That was also mentioned in the Reuters article.

Tesla faces day of reckoning on water supply for planned German plant

Tesla may lose the water supply contract for its long-delayed German plant if environmental groups win a court case challenging a licence granted to its water supplier at a hearing next week.

www.reuters.com

A spokesperson for the court said a decision was expected the day of the hearing. Tesla declined to comment on the case.