Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Some might say....
"But the F150 Lightning is a truck... it should burn more fuel. And what's a kWh/mi anyway? Is that like a tank of gas, or what?"

Even if a consumer doesn't understand or care about kWh/mile, it's still one of the more important things for sales and profits.

Because kWh/mile determines how big of a battery it needs to have a certain range. Which determines how much the car costs, how much it weighs and therefore how well it can handle and how briskly it can accelerate, how long the brakes last, how long it takes to add 100 miles of range at a charger and how much your car payments are. The only way it doesn't matter is if consumers don't mind buying ill-handling, porky, slow charging cars that have expensive car payments.

kWh/mile is the most important metric whether the consumer understands why that is or not.
 
That Street article has this tidbit somehow stapled at the end.

"In other Tesla news, a recent lawsuit claims that the company’s driver assist system, Autopilot, constantly monitors drivers, violating their privacy rights.

Autopilot uses eight cameras around the vehicle to gather a full 360-degree view, facilitating the technology that allows the car to navigate through traffic hands-free.

However, in May 2021 Tesla released a driver monitoring system software update that turned on a cabin-facing camera already built into its vehicles that would detect the attention of a driver while autopilot was in use.

This monitoring is a violation of the Illinois Biometric Privacy Act, according to a class action lawsuit filed March 10. "

TSLAQ: *Alert* Tesla is dangerously irresponsible in only using steering pressure to monitor driver's alertness instead of cameras like other car makers. *Alert*

Tesla: OK, we will turn on the cabin camera to ensure the driver is paying attention.

TSLAQ: *Alert* Tesla is spying on drivers and violating their rights to privacy while driving! *Alert*
 
Last edited:
Even if a consumer doesn't understand or care about kWh/mile, it's still one of the more important things for sales and profits.

Because kWh/mile determines how big of a battery it needs to have a certain range. Which determines how much the car costs, how much it weighs and therefore how well it can handle and how briskly it can accelerate, how long the brakes last, how long it takes to add 100 miles of range at a charger and how much your car payments are. The only way it doesn't matter is if consumers don't mind buying ill-handling, porky, slow charging cars that have expensive car payments.

kWh/mile is the most important metric whether the consumer understands why that is or not.
Agree, hence why legacy is not reporting it in any public setting. So there's a long way to go to recalibrate public understanding. Remember, this country had trouble with metric conversion and backed out (but Canada didn't!). e-EPA is likely all that matters to them for now, and is related to kWh/mi to a degree. (Actually, kCalories/mi might be better understood in this country as they can equate it to Soda's/mi for a frame of reference.)
 
The new Model Ys will slay the market. I foresee demand still increasing from here even as costs fall. Margins are set to explode well beyond 40% unless Tesla decides to either tolerate an even longer backlog or shut down the order page with a "Sold Out" announcement.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The structural battery pack and additional front giga casting means the new Y will have less mass, a more centralized distribution of mass, and a more rigid chassis that twists less during hard turns.

Regarding mass distribution, saving weight on the outside of the car reduces the inertial resistance to rotating the car. The effect is proportional to the square of the distance from the car's center of mass. It's a summation of mass * radius^2.

Elon said at Battery Day, "If this was a convertible that had no upper structure, that convertible will be stiffer than a regular car. So it’s just really major...[And] if you can bring things closer to the center, you reduce the polar moment of inertia, and that means the car maneuvers better. It just feels better. You won’t know why, but it just feels more agile. So it’s really cool. This is really major...Like I said, so 10% mass reduction in the body of the car"

For a rough estimate, with a 10% mass reduction and perhaps a 15% improvement from centralizing the mass distribution, we might be looking at about a 1-(1-0.1)*(1-0.15) = 24% reduction in the resistance to turning.

The stiffer chassis will also enable better suspension and in turn better traction and ride comfort, especially during turns. Teslas already feel like they drive on rails, and that's about to get 20 to 30% better.

Another underappreciated advantage of giga castings is consistent quality for panel gaps. Manufacturing variation inherent to the legacy process of stamping parts and joining them together will be simply deleted by having one unitized primary structural element in each third of the car. The skin panels can then easily be fitted to have proper gaps, making for a nicer appearance, better aerodynamics, and reduced wind noise.

The lighter weight will further improve ride quality by putting less load on the suspension.

Reduced weight will also make for slightly less road noise, which is one of the most common complaints about Tesla vehicles. Better not to mash the tire rubber into the pavement as hard.

Beautiful new exterior paint coming from Berlin (and soon the other factories) will draw more curious eyeballs to lustfully gaze at Model Ys. Deep Crimson looks gorgeous on a digital image and probably even better in real life.

Plus, I still think charging speeds will be substantially faster with the new battery design and the longevity may already be at the million-mile level, making for great resale value for these Ys. Jeff Dahn and Elon have both hinted at this in the last few years.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Usually a Tesla virgin is hooked by their first experience actually seeing and driving the car. That bait is about to get even more enticing. The infectiousness of Tesla's viral word-of-mouth marketing strategy will increase. Owners will be even more interested in dazzling their friends, family and acquaintances with what their Tesla can do. This is an exponential growth phenomenon, so even a small bump in the growth rate of the cult fan base can have an amplified effect over time as it compounds on itself.

Meanwhile, crossover mid-sized SUVs continue to gain popularity in general.

These improvements also lower manufacturing cost. It is hard to see how the new Ys will have less than 40% gross margin even excluding emissions credits and FSD. For premium trims with extra goodies like sport wheels or third row seating added, 50% margin is plausible. Damn.
Just spoke with 3 med reps today.
they all want to switch to EVs with the gas prices.
They are looking to wait times to get their cars as soon as possible.
Model Y will probably be the best selling SUV or vehicle of all time if the production rate is ramping faster than competition.

I never thought we would enter an era where cars are a scarcity with lightly used vehicles selling pricier than new vehicles. With inflation, supply lines restrictions and increasing demand, I expect the waiting time for delivery will soon become the number one factor for new customers entering the EV market.
 
Even if a consumer doesn't understand or care about kWh/mile, it's still one of the more important things for sales and profits.

Because kWh/mile determines how big of a battery it needs to have a certain range. Which determines how much the car costs, how much it weighs and therefore how well it can handle and how briskly it can accelerate, how long the brakes last, how long it takes to add 100 miles of range at a charger and how much your car payments are. The only way it doesn't matter is if consumers don't mind buying ill-handling, porky, slow charging cars that have expensive car payments.

kWh/mile is the most important metric whether the consumer understands why that is or not.
When you drive an ICE vehicle, you see your cost of gas directly and it's obvious what poor mileage does to your gas bill.

When you drive an EV, that's often absorbed into your electric bill. It's invisible until you start making roadtrips.

Maybe a better way to express this would be a cost to operate estimate. For example: 15,000 miles/ year at $0.35/ kWh this car will cost $850/ year to run. It would be inaccurate specifically, but would give a rough idea of how much it costs to drive one car versus another.
 
Just spoke with 3 med reps today.
they all want to switch to EVs with the gas prices.
They are looking to wait times to get their cars as soon as possible.
Model Y will probably be the best selling SUV or vehicle of all time if the production rate is ramping faster than competition.

I never thought we would enter an era where cars are a scarcity with lightly used vehicles selling pricier than new vehicles. With inflation, supply lines restrictions and increasing demand, I expect the waiting time for delivery will soon become the number one factor for new customers entering the EV market.
I find it incredibly amusing that legacy auto and young EV companies have been spending money and time advertising, hyping their products non-stop, etc......only not be able to ramp production in any meaningful way during a hyper charged inflection point of EV adoption.

Want to take advantage of the EV inflection point as a investor? Tesla's the only game in town and will continue to be the only game in town for the next 3 year minimum. Everyone else that didn't get their supply chain locked up 2 years is sitting on the bleachers watching the show while Tesla has zero competition in front of it.
 
Last edited:
100+ in 3 days .... but for battle hardened TSLA folks .... they know how volatile it can be ;)

looking forward to good ole days above 900 and beyond ....
It's ironic that even the battle hardened TSLA folks get affected just a little when it goes down $400+ in 3 months :)

Speaking for myself of course :)
 
I find it incredibly amusing that legacy auto and young EV companies have been spending money and time advertising, hyping their products non-stop, etc......only not be able to ramp production in any meaningful way during a hyper charged inflection point of EV adoption.

Want to take advantage of the EV inflection point as a investor? Tesla's the only game in town and will continue to be the only game in town for the next 3 year minimum. Everyone else that didn't get their supply chain locked up 2 years is sitting the bleachers watching the show while Tesla has zero competition in front of it.
You are assuming that they are advertising to increase sales, but what if some of them are only advertising to be perceived as the leader? It matters! ;-)
 
You are assuming that they are advertising to increase sales, but what if some of them are only advertising to be perceived as the leader? It matters! ;-)
They're advertising to get some of Tesla's market cap premium. I'm going to really enjoy watching it come crumbling down in the 2nd half of 2022 when they're forced to admit they can't get even remotely close to their "targets".

We're already seeing some of this, but 2nd half 2022 is when they'll be exposed on a broad scale.
 
They're advertising to get some of Tesla's market cap premium. I'm going to really enjoy watching it come crumbling down in the 2nd half of 2022 when they're forced to admit they can't get even remotely close to their "targets".

We're already seeing some of this, but 2nd half 2022 is when they'll be exposed on a broad scale.
You're more optimistic than me. Nikola still has a market cap of 3.6B.
 
I find it incredibly amusing that legacy auto and young EV companies have been spending money and time advertising, hyping their products non-stop, etc......only not be able to ramp production in any meaningful way during a hyper charged inflection point of EV adoption.

Want to take advantage of the EV inflection point as a investor? Tesla's the only game in town and will continue to be the only game in town for the next 3 year minimum. Everyone else that didn't get their supply chain locked up 2 years is sitting on the bleachers watching the show while Tesla has zero competition in front of it.
I laugh my behind off when some goofball tells me that Tesla is doomed because such and such legacy car has better specs. Even if that were true, cool. They are making 20k a year. Even if Teslas were not as good people would still be forced to buy them if they want an EV.

And of course we here know they aren't worse.
 
When you drive an ICE vehicle, you see your cost of gas directly and it's obvious what poor mileage does to your gas bill.

When you drive an EV, that's often absorbed into your electric bill. It's invisible until you start making roadtrips.

Maybe a better way to express this would be a cost to operate estimate. For example: 15,000 miles/ year at $0.35/ kWh this car will cost $850/ year to run. It would be inaccurate specifically, but would give a rough idea of how much it costs to drive one car versus another.
Knowing humans as this ant does, there should be a simple, imaginable/low math number that the average moron can grasp. A comparison of Savings per 100 miles. Take the average price of a kW for the lower 48 and the average price of a gallon of gasoline to do the math. And used the published watts per mile of each vehicle. Too much math and science makes it impossible for chuckleheads.
It would be very biting when described as "Savings per 100 miles".
 
  • Like
Reactions: ccook and cjkosh
Boring Company won the San Antonio project!


Elon doesn't in anyway need the money at all that would come from such a transaction - but would there be any advantages to Boring Company becoming a Tesla subsidiary?

I think a good result would be that Tesla would have more efficient and experienced teams when it comes to lobbying and negotiating with various local regulators/municipalities for all Tesla products & services, whether that be tunnels for public transport/utilities, FSD, power infrastructure, new factories or supercharger locations, etc etc.

plus of course it would make more sense in terms of developing a public transport pod vehicle specifically designed for boring tunnel system.
 
Last edited:
I’m speculating that the Master Plan, Part 3 was sparked by the latest geo-political issues and the (continued) reliance on unsustainable energy sources across the globe. Not sure what that entails beyond what’s been covered in Part 2 but likely something more cohesive + comprehensive going beyond just the consumer (Ie, government scale re-imagining of the “grid”).