Marc_K_inNJ
Member
I can already imagine the next letter to investors, issued by the hedge funds, explaining their loses…
We ran into supply chain shortage issues…
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
We ran into supply chain shortage issues…
StapleGun
Member
I invest because of the deep intrinsic value created by Tesla as they solve extremely hard problems. This split adds only superficial value and is meaningless to me. I'm glad all the split discussion should be on the backburner for a while after this.
But it's still pretty fun to watch the ticker today
But it's still pretty fun to watch the ticker today
If you are short TSLA, the stock dividend is the same as a cash dividend, in that the short has to deliver, to whom the stock was shorted, the dividend. I.e., if it is a 5-for-1 stock split, 4 shares have to be delivered; in the case of a cash dividend, the amount of cash has to be delivered. It's obviously a lot easier to deliver cash than to scrape up 4 shares of stock for every share that is shorted. So, no, they are not the same.
This is a very interesting way to do this split. Neither the ratio of the split nor the increased number of shares authorized is provided, which may lead naked shorts (to the extent that they exist) to have unquantifiable risk. Also, the date of the announcement of these numbers is not provided, which makes any attempt to arbitrage on this split tricky.
Edit: Further, doing this on March 28, when the quarter is about to close for hedge funds and their outside accountants become heavily involved for reporting purposes, seems notable.
Edit: Further, doing this on March 28, when the quarter is about to close for hedge funds and their outside accountants become heavily involved for reporting purposes, seems notable.
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Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Sure, 10% off the ATH but YTD goes from the Close on Dec 31, 2021 so were up 2.47% YTD as of 10:47 ET (and still climbing)
Cheers!
MOD: And with @Hock1's concise, correct and understandable explanation of the difference, that is the last post we'll have on splits vs. dividends...on this go 'round. As already has been written today, there were many hundreds of posts repeating ad nauseum not just correct information, but nonsense. All Mods are on notice simply to delete w/o explanation any further such.
MOD/off - to answer @UncaNed's question about entry into the DJIA, that ancient relic has such arcane and just plain weird algorithms to determine a company's position in the Index that it is effectively impossible for a stock possessing a high number to be a member. One of several reasons it is, alas, a useless index. Historically, it represented blue chip industrial stocks. Take a look at its make-up now: how may of those 30 are manufacturing companies? On the other hand, the US economy itself is inconceivably (by 19th c standards) more a service economy than a manufacturing economy, and that is a cogent reason for the DJIA's change.
But still.....
MOD/off - to answer @UncaNed's question about entry into the DJIA, that ancient relic has such arcane and just plain weird algorithms to determine a company's position in the Index that it is effectively impossible for a stock possessing a high number to be a member. One of several reasons it is, alas, a useless index. Historically, it represented blue chip industrial stocks. Take a look at its make-up now: how may of those 30 are manufacturing companies? On the other hand, the US economy itself is inconceivably (by 19th c standards) more a service economy than a manufacturing economy, and that is a cogent reason for the DJIA's change.
But still.....
Yaah, I know but it was still Oh-Dark-30 under the sheets when I wrote that and I just used the "YTD" data most easily accessible. But yours is an important point, in that so many funds need to show how well they've done in a fiscal Quarter.Sure, 10% off the ATH but YTD goes from the Close on Dec 31, 2021 so were up 2.47% YTD as of 10:47 ET (and still climbing)
View attachment 786981
Cheers!
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
I would very much like to see the DOW30 addition happen before Moody's and S&P upgrade Tesla's credit rating above 'junk'.
That would be the crowning jewel of this run.
Cheers!
I had a moment of weakness, and sold some of the shares I've been holding on margin.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Are their credit rating requirements? I.e. do we have to be out of "junk" status before TSLA can be added to DJIA?
ThisStockGood
Still cruising my Model S 70 2015
We are all human. Even you and Will Smith.
Well, well, well....it took a while but my wife just saw the SP and said...."Is this real...or do you have a hacked stock ticker and playing one of your dumb jokes on me again."
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Doesn't have to be a "carbon" stock (I refuse to call them "energy" stocks when they sell "matter"). But somebody needs to be kicked out of the DOW30 before TSLA can be added. A recent example was GE being punted after their years-long, 90% meltdown.
Tesla will eat the DOW30 with its growth rate, so I'm suspect S&P DJI (the owners of the Index) are reluctant to add TSLA during its high growth phase. And that means 10+ years.
Fortunately, the DOW30 is mainly used by the Financial Press and/or MSM, while almost no Benchmarked or Index funds track the DOW30. It's mostly S&P 500 or NASDAQ 100 for the biggest funds on Wall St.
Cheers!
I don't think Tesla makes a move just to "burn the shorts" - it's clear to all that time will cashier them.
So what actual direct benefit comes to Tesla with the effort made to create a stock split? Certainly not to gain the good will of retail investors, that's a solid. And it's nice that those with less deep pockets can buy into the company. And, the kind of stock valuation projections we all savor here are discussed as occurring in a compressed timeframe - unless DJIA inclusion were to occur directly after a split completes, the ever advancing stock price will rise out of the supposed range the DJIA demands...and it just doesn't seem like Tesla operate with an eye on increasing stock valuation, that takes care of itself.
Does the increase in quantity of shares held out of circulation benefit Tesla? Does that reserve make future executive and employee share awards more manageable? If so, the larger the share count increase the better, just in numerical quantity, as price valuation is not immediately affected.
Am I right?
It would make more sense to have a 20 to 1 split at this time, following Google and Apple, gaining an early multiplier value while almost half the stock remains out of circulation. Yes?
So what actual direct benefit comes to Tesla with the effort made to create a stock split? Certainly not to gain the good will of retail investors, that's a solid. And it's nice that those with less deep pockets can buy into the company. And, the kind of stock valuation projections we all savor here are discussed as occurring in a compressed timeframe - unless DJIA inclusion were to occur directly after a split completes, the ever advancing stock price will rise out of the supposed range the DJIA demands...and it just doesn't seem like Tesla operate with an eye on increasing stock valuation, that takes care of itself.
Does the increase in quantity of shares held out of circulation benefit Tesla? Does that reserve make future executive and employee share awards more manageable? If so, the larger the share count increase the better, just in numerical quantity, as price valuation is not immediately affected.
Am I right?
It would make more sense to have a 20 to 1 split at this time, following Google and Apple, gaining an early multiplier value while almost half the stock remains out of circulation. Yes?
do insider trading rules apply to crypto? If not, this makes a lot of sense
Poll time! How many shares will stockholders approve at the 2022 annual meeting?
(6 days long, vote once, votes are public)
(6 days long, vote once, votes are public)
jeewee3000
Active Member
The split doesn't add superficial value. It removes unwarranted value-suppression.I invest because of the deep intrinsic value created by Tesla as they solve extremely hard problems. This split adds only superficial value and is meaningless to me. I'm glad all the split discussion should be on the backburner for a while after this.
But it's still pretty fun to watch the ticker today
By forcing shorts to cover, the stock price will gravitate more towards the deep intrinsic value of the company instead of being held down by artificial methods. So even you - deep value investor - benefit from the announced stock split.
closing price on 12/31/21 was 1056.78, so we are up for the year. Some financial sites calculate YTD using closing price on 1/3 (1199.78) which is incorrect. They should use 12/31
A stock split is mostly superficial, but the mechanical steps taken on splits seemed to matter last time. Many of us were waiting for days for the added shares to hit our accounts. I can't say as I understand why fully. Perhaps only a few do understand it and this is an arcane field. In such cases, it seems worthwhile to "study the blade."
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