Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[TN Mtn Man]

I’m pretty sure it costs more than $25 for them to manufacture. Lots of copper, a pretty compact high capacity transformer, and the charge computer in the cable all cost a little bit of money. There is a good reason they have multiple adaptors for the various voltages and plug styles rather than just making a separate cable for each.

I was under the impression it was just a cable with a couple of connectors, didn't realize that there was a transformer and electronics in it. Thanks for the correction-makes more sense then.

 

[mongo]

I was under the impression it was just a cable with a couple of connectors, didn't realize that there was a transformer and electronics in it. Thanks for the correction-makes more sense then.

Current sense transformers for ground fault protection, contactors/relays for disconnection, micro and circuitry to communicate current limit to car, handshake, and operate the relays/ lights. It doesn't do any high power conversion.
Still a bunch of parts.

 

[hitchhiker]

It somehow seems wrong to buy an electric car and have it not come with a plug.

I charge my Y pretty much exclusively with the mobile charger in a 120 outlet. Works for me.. and when I need a full fill-up fast I go to a supercharger.

But so long was they make it clear at checkout that it doesn't come with a charger, and let you add the one you want, i guess this makes sense.

 

[TN Mtn Man]

Current sense transformers for ground fault protection, contactors/relays for disconnection, micro and circuitry to communicate current limit to car, handshake, and operate the relays/ lights. It doesn't do any high power conversion.
Still a bunch of parts.

Even that much is somewhat of a cost adder. For some reason I thought the charging and safety functions were controlled by the car. But makes sense, from a GFCI standpoint, power would have to be shut off before the car. I hadn't thought through all the implications.

 

[Mengy]

The 14-50 is way more reliable (or perhaps idiot proof) than the Wall Connector based on the various posts.

Really? I've had zero problems with my Wall Connector, I think the damn thing is awesome and it has worked every time flawlessly.

 

[2daMoon]

And THAT is part of the danger of "social media". Throughout history, it's that "vocal minority" that in many cases is responsible for human progress. That vocal minority has included voices like Galileo, Marie Curie, Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein and...Elon Musk. Where would be be had those voices been suppressed, had they had no voice, had no one listened to their message. If instead of listening to those voices we held to established wisdom (aka group think)? We'd still believe that the world was flat, that lightning was magic, and getting around by horse and buggy. Science in particular is based on the scientific method-of posturing a hypothesis, of conducting experiments to validate or disprove it, of sharing the data and methodology to enable independent, reproducible results. Not by screaming "the science is settled" and silencing debate. I could go on, but don't want to make this more political.

The flip side-those minority voices? They can just as easily be an Adolf Hitler, Joe Stalin, Mao, Fidel Castro or Karl Marx. The question is, to what extent do we censor free speech to "protect" from the possibility of being exposed to different ideas and opinions? Is there a point where the censorship is justified to prevent the spread of "dangerous" ideas? Who decides what ideas are acceptable or unacceptable? Proposing to murder someone would be widely considered an example, but would a discussion about assassinating Hitler have been inappropriate? Reportedly, right now, Facebook has cancelled their bans on such conversations concerning Putin. So talking about murdering someone is OK if they are a really bad guy? How about someone proposing political ideas some decry as dangerous? Imagine if we had Twitter in 1950, and someone proposed integrating schools, black and white people dating or marrying, doing away with things like poll taxes-would those things be labeled dangerous? Just examples-we can go on and on.

My take-it shouldn't be up to the board of a private company to decide what is or is not politically acceptable speech-if they claim to be a platform for open communication and discussion. Flip side-as a private company, I do support their right to set terms-yes, cognitive dissidence here. But even then, I'll agree there are limits-keeping sexual predators off such a platform I certainly support. But...where do you draw the line, and more importantly-who decides?

No, those good people weren't "vocal" i.e.: they didn't have a voice that was being heard predominantly over all others despite their small numbers.

Perhaps you misunderstood how I used that term, "vocal" minority to describe the overwhelming voice of people who think their ideas are universal, when they are merely being made predominant by a system of favoritism.

This is a stark contrast to the examples you gave of persons with valuable work to share who did not find a viable platform from which to spread their knowledge.

Elon would like to see Twitter be the sort of platform where good ideas can spread and foolish ideas won't get wide distribution simply because they tugged at the heartstrings of someone in management.

 

[Etna]

@Krugerrand the cat on the right was liked on Twitter by Elon tonight, this is is very troubling.

 

[StealthP3D]

Well now you have to pay for a NEMA 14-50 and the mobile charger and they dropped the price of the wall charger so I dont’ think NEMA 14-50 is the way to go anymore. I would suggest the Tesla charger with the J1772 connector is ideal right now on the off chance you get something else or a friend or family member needs a charge.

In the case where a friend or family member needs a charge while at your house, guess what?

If you live in the US, chances are, it's another Tesla!

On other Tesla forums I am constantly seeing self-proclaimed EV experts recommend that people install a charge solution from a third party vendor with a J1772 connector on it "because it's compatible with ALL EV's", but this is misguided thinking.

1) In the US, most EV's sold are Tesla's so an adapter would ne needed with most EV's. A Tesla Wall Connector can charge all EV's with a J1772 adapter.
2) The Tesla Wall Connector costs less and is higher quality than most 3rd party charge solutions.
3) The Tesla Wall Connector charges faster than most 3rd party charge solutions.

 

[ruralectric]

I purchased and pre-installed the Tesla wall-mounted charger before taking delivery of my first Tesla because I wanted the mobile adaptor to always be in the car to get emergency charging from somewhere. If I used that mobile adaptor to charge at home, I knew for sure I wouldn’t always remember to move it back to the car before taking a long drive or trip.

So I have almost never used the mobile adaptor, but I consider it essential. I did use it recently when parked for a few days at a friends house in rural Northern California. I used a trickle charge at 120v to make the next hop easier. I used it last fall in Garnett, Kansas where I booked a room in a little hotel/RV park combo. Was pretty cool, I had my own RV space with a picnic table and grill on one side and a 50a power supply on the other. And I could see the Tesla parked in that space from the room.

Yup. I never set out on a road trip without the mobile connector, although, the only bit that I have ever needed (in an unplanned charging situation) is the J1772 adapter. When I've actually used it, the alternative would have been being stranded somewhere.

 

[GrandEnigma]

It’s entirely possible there are supply chain issues with the partner that makes these and they simply cannot keep up with the demand.

 

[Prunesquallor]

Another margin trigger? Tesla removes "free" mobile connector - it's available for purchase for $400 in the Tesla store (apparently with additional adapters, per Elon).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1515439697425805315

Well, anecdotally true. I’ve never used mine.

 

[mongo]

It somehow seems wrong to buy an electric car and have it not come with a plug.

I charge my Y pretty much exclusively with the mobile charger in a 120 outlet. Works for me.. and when I need a full fill-up fast I go to a supercharger.

But so long was they make it clear at checkout that it doesn't come with a charger, and let you add the one you want, i guess this makes sense.

Agree that if they call it out it's pretty much a non-issue.
As to having what you 'need' when you buy the car, for a while now (3 years), the bundled UMC hasn't included the 14-50 plug, only a standard 15A 120V. So new owners might be needing to order more bits anyway. Separately purchased UMC will have more plugs, per Elon Tweet.
There is also the potential issue (YMMV) of a garage based outlet requiring a 5mA GFCI wereas EVSE equipment has a 20mA trip point. A WC eliminates that potential problem.

Well, anecdotally true. I’ve never used mine.

I hear resale value is going up. Appreciating asset.

 

[Prunesquallor]

Wait...how do you charge the car without an included charging cable?

A wall charger plus a 60 amp 220/240 v line guarantees you can fully charge overnight. I think many see that as a preferable home solution.

 

[Prunesquallor]

I have two. One to charge the car at home (which stays plugged in) and other for trips. Use it all the time at campsites, B&Bs, etc. Even if I had a Wall Connector, I'd want a 14-50 as a backup. The 14-50 is way more reliable (or perhaps idiot proof) than the Wall Connector based on the various posts.

???!? We’ll here’s a post. My wall connector has been flawless for 3+ years.

 

[Ogre]

In the case where a friend or family member needs a charge while at your house, guess what?

If you live in the US, chances are, it's another Tesla!

On other Tesla forums I am constantly seeing self-proclaimed EV experts recommend that people install a charge solution from a third party vendor with a J1772 connector on it "because it's compatible with ALL EV's", but this is misguided thinking.

1) In the US, most EV's sold are Tesla's so an adapter would ne needed with most EV's. A Tesla Wall Connector can charge all EV's with a J1772 adapter.
2) The Tesla Wall Connector costs less and is higher quality than most 3rd party charge solutions.
3) The Tesla Wall Connector charges faster than most 3rd party charge solutions.

I was posting based on apparently dated or mis-remembered facts.

I swear Tesla sold a Wall Charger with a J1772 end which is what I had in my mind. It either vanished from Tesla’s site or I’m just misremembering it. Thinking was: Teslas come with the J1772 adaptor so you could charge any other car (including Teslas) with that Wall Charger…

But since the wall charger I was thinking of does not seem to exist, nevermind!

 

[Singuy]

The Tesla Wall Connector is not expensive! It's only $495, people pay more than that for metallic paint or some other vanity option. Electrical code almost always allows self-install if desired but it's generally a two hour job for an electrician in the most common scenarios (electrical panel in garage). I installed mine on a pedestal next out by my driveway for under $150 and that includes 35 feet of copper cable. That's the cost of taking your date or SO out for a nice dinner or a show. I get 44 miles per hour on my Model 3. $495 is also the cheapest charging solution I know of from any manufacturer that goes to 48 amps charging speed. It's less expensive than most 30-40A connectors from other makers.

The Mobile Connector is becoming less relevant as charging networks are built out so it makes sense to not include one in every car if the alternative is to tack on a few hundred extra dollars to every car that may or may not ever be used. Tesla charges $275 for their Mobile Connector if you decide you will use it, Porsche charges $1995 for their Mobile charge cable.

I'm surprised to hear you say the Wall Connector is expensive considering it's like having your own personal gas station in your garage or driveway. What's expensive is driving a gasoline vehicle!

It's MORE expensive because it's 500 PLUS installation. A Nema plug is like 20 bucks plus installation. I rather save 480 bucks when given the option as to me their performance is similar (as in both will provide me with a full charge while I sleep).

 

[WADan]

Predicting the future is difficult!

There are known knowns - for Tesla that is the current state of manufacturing, product roadmap (Cybertruck, etc.), competitor intentions.
There are known unknowns - for Tesla that is production ramp, new factory locations, when FSD is 10x better than humans, competitor execution.
There are unknown unknowns - a year ago Bot was not on anyone's radar, 3 years ago a global pandemic was not foreseen.

For Tesla several approaches have been used:

1. Steven Mark Ryan and others pick a few scenarios: bear, base, bull, superbull; assign probabilities to them, then compute the expected share price from those.

2. ARK Invest use a Monte Carlo model.

3. Scenario technique (I am not aware of anyone using this): work out multiple scenarios, e.g. FSD working -> Robotaxi -> Bot -> full AGI, with times to make each step, competitors, take up rates, margins, etc. as parameters of the scenario. T

I really don’t care what methodology one uses to make forecast. All I know is NOONE can even predict with any degree of accuracy of, SP at the end of next monday, let alone anytime in the future!

 

[heltok]

This makes me irrationally upset. I know its only $400 but the amount of negative attention it is going to get is not going to be worth it.

One thing I like about Tesla is that they are not afraid of getting negative attention and instead focus on making the product better.

Imo better to lower the price by $100 and charge $400 extra for the 10% who needs the cable. Also better for the environment, better for getting incentives for setting up long term charger solutions. Charging situation is rapidly improving and in a few years this will be a non issue in most places. I say this as someone who used the cable many times when I airbnb:ed.

 

[PeterJA]

I drive very little so I hope this solar roof kit becomes available for my Model 3 ordered for July delivery.

EV SOLAR KITS | Charge Anywhere

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[StealthP3D]

I have two. One to charge the car at home (which stays plugged in) and other for trips. Use it all the time at campsites, B&Bs, etc. Even if I had a Wall Connector, I'd want a 14-50 as a backup. The 14-50 is way more reliable (or perhaps idiot proof) than the Wall Connector based on the various posts.

Both the Tesla Wall Connector and the Mobile connector are very reliable. The Wall Connector has the edge in reliability as it's more waterproof with more robust hard connections and an enclosure not subject to shock while the Mobile Connector has two plug-in connections (one on the wall and one on the body) and an enclosure subject to shock which makes it less reliable than hard-wired.

I've noticed since around 2018-2019 a concerted effort to dissuade people from installing Tesla Wall Connectors, probably because installation grows the Tesla ecosystem which makes it easier for subsequent residents of a residence that already has a Wall Connector to buy a Tesla and less likely to buy a future "Tesla killer". These anti-Tesla people figured out a long time ago that anything that slowed the growth of Tesla was worth pursuing because they actually believe that the next Tesla Killer is right around the corner!