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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
I was referring to the tweet you quoted first (second one was a joke about the 420 value).
The first one is equivalent to what I wrote, the only verbatim difference is the explicit use of the word "price" which is semantically implied when one says "stock is too high" -- it is obvious that the shorter version of the statement is not meant to refer to a stock certificate being placed on a high shelf or something similarly silly, but to mean exactly the same as the more explicit (but functionally equivalent) statement "stock price is too high".
I agree. We are all adults who most definitely dont need to bicker all day over something so far out of our control. I say anyone who is comfortable with Elon’s new role at TWTR, keep your TSLA. Anyone thinking its a ticking timed bomb, sell it.Can we also ask those constantly insisting that abdication-of-CEO-feduciary-duty-is-perfectly-ok also give it a rest?I'll chill on my end.
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Captkerosene
Member
I am personally overjoyed that Elon is buying Twitter. I think Tesla shareholders should be too.
Bigger fish than Ford and GM will be coming for us soon. Energy, transportation, communications, finance and labor interests ... they'll all be coming after him. He needs a big media stick to defend himself and Tesla if he wants to disrupt the planet.
I'd love to see Twitter do crowd-sourced neutral investigative journalism. If he can claim the middle, then independent voters will be interested in his political endorsements. Both parties will be hesitant to attack Elon and Tesla's interests. We're playing in the bigs now. Votes are needed to shape the bureaucracy.
Ignore Elon's comments about free speech and not needing to make money on Twitter. Once he gets going on this his competitive spirits will take over. Twitter could someday be the biggest and most valuable media company in the world.
Bigger fish than Ford and GM will be coming for us soon. Energy, transportation, communications, finance and labor interests ... they'll all be coming after him. He needs a big media stick to defend himself and Tesla if he wants to disrupt the planet.
I'd love to see Twitter do crowd-sourced neutral investigative journalism. If he can claim the middle, then independent voters will be interested in his political endorsements. Both parties will be hesitant to attack Elon and Tesla's interests. We're playing in the bigs now. Votes are needed to shape the bureaucracy.
Ignore Elon's comments about free speech and not needing to make money on Twitter. Once he gets going on this his competitive spirits will take over. Twitter could someday be the biggest and most valuable media company in the world.
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
Uhhh...nope. Gotta disagree here. A happy and challenged Elon is best for TSLA shareholders, and a busy Elon is a happy Elon.
Dan
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
I didn't even know there was an insider lockup for rivian expiring this weekend. Gonna be an ugly Monday!
Think Ford will buy TSLA with the cash?
www.cnbc.com
Think Ford will buy TSLA with the cash?
Ford is selling 8 million shares of once high-flying EV maker Rivian, sources say
Ford Motor is selling 8 million of its Rivian Automotive shares as the insider lockup for the stock expires on Sunday, sources told CNBC's David Faber.
www.cnbc.com
I didn't even know there was an insider lockup for rivian expiring this weekend. Gonna be an ugly Monday!
Think Ford will buy TSLA with the cash?
Ford is selling 8 million shares of once high-flying EV maker Rivian, sources say
Ford Motor is selling 8 million of its Rivian Automotive shares as the insider lockup for the stock expires on Sunday, sources told CNBC's David Faber.
It's kinda off to say that "Rivian" is once "high-flying" when it's really "RIVN" that was "high-flying"...I wonder who's bag holding for them.
thesmokingman
Active Member
They're already coming after him, and he's already using Twitter to defend himself. Imagine the impression his 90 million followers would have of him if they got it from the NY Times and Wash Post. His "childish antics" on Twitter that so outrage some folks show millions of others that he is an authentic fearless badass, not a corporate stuffed shirt... especially when his jokes and blunt opinions are interspersed with news of his companies' phenomenal achievements.
But I agree the media attacks on him will get worse as he continues to eat the lunch of Earth's industrial establishment.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
There's no contradiction. I've been in this game long enough to know the CEO of a company does not know what the share price is going to do any more than people who follow the company closely. But this principle misses the point. Elon guided for nutty growth and he keeps hitting it. Elon said the stock price was too high, he didn't say it was overvalued. If you recall, not long after that he decided to split the stock to lower the share price. There is a difference between a high share price and a company that is overvalued.
You have to take CEO's words in context. In this instance, TSLA was the most shorted stock in history and we know Elon is not fond of short-sellers. Because he has told us that. So, no, I did not have to be skeptical about his words, I simply needed to interpret them in the context they made sense. And thank the stock market gods that I didn't sell a single share based on his words, I interpreted them correctly. But I'm sure his words did encourage a lot of short-sellers to double-down. Right before one of Tesla's most violent breakouts to the upside. Ha-ha!
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I’ve never invested in a company unless I trusted the CEO would do the right thing for shareholders.
A few people think Twitter is part of some grand scheme, but lots of us are largely neutral on Twitter and would have been just as happy he didn’t buy it. It’s just this idea that Tesla is going to fall apart at the seams because he’s working on another project which you keep spouting that I find laughable. (And I suspect many others)
Musk should leave the CEO job at Tesla. Last year nothing has happened, from a customers pov. Just small not important things. It would have been possible to have come longer with CT and Roadster. He seems tired and more interested in other things.
And that Twitter investor talk that "you will triple your money", is as believeable as FSD. He really should stop lying if he wants to be liked from more than the cult.
AND, Twitter shouldnt be a one man show. He will "protect free speach". LOL... He should talk to Putin then, he does the same in Russia, has decades of experience.
Anybody know if he will be co-founder of Twitter?
And that Twitter investor talk that "you will triple your money", is as believeable as FSD. He really should stop lying if he wants to be liked from more than the cult.
AND, Twitter shouldnt be a one man show. He will "protect free speach". LOL... He should talk to Putin then, he does the same in Russia, has decades of experience.
Anybody know if he will be co-founder of Twitter?
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
A lot changed between 2020 and 2021 from the customer's point of view. Probably the biggest change was that Tesla nearly doubled the number of customers that took delivery of a new Tesla. They also built two new modern factories. That makes me very happy from the point of view of an EV advocate as well as an from an investors point of view. Those who want Musk to step down as CEO hate seeing Tesla outperform. They want to stop TSLA's outsized growth before it claims more victims. Tesla haters have been calling for Musk to step down long before Twitter entered the picture.
Elon will not be co-founder of Twitter. Your words are those of a Tesla hater who missed out on the investment opportunity of a lifetime. In my experience, the same people are likely to miss out on TSLA's appreciation going forward as well. Because those people don't understand the company and think it's over-valued. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Which I'm just fine with.
In May of 2020 the OP on this forum predicted a bad upcoming Q2 2020 quarter for Tesla because the company "is bleeding money". So you may be right that he might have missed out on the huge appreciation that was about to happen.
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This literally and figuratively isn't rocket science.
He (as Tesla CEO) doesn't even have to dictate the pricing, he can simply tell the AI group or whomever is in charge of Dojo to come up with a pricing model that makes sense based on what service they can offer and the going rate in the market and so on (i.e., as much profit margin as possible while still bring priced competitively with other offerings in terms of TOPS per dollar or whatever the appropriate metric for AI training SaaS is). They then publish these prices on Tesla.com/Dojo or whatever complete with a portal to sign up for service, etc, like all such providers do, and anyone can use the service for the same published prices.
Tesla can likely undercut the competition in this space by at least some small amount (thanks to investing in purpose built hardware at scale), maximizing their profit margins for the service while still being priced such that they can get customers, but at the same time not ripping off those customers by pricing it higher than the competition. They don't necessarily even have to be lower priced, if the overall value is better or comparable (i.e., if Dojo can run your training in an hour, whether due to smaller queues or faster execution or both, and the cheaper option takes a few hours, then they'll definitely get some buyers for the faster turnaround even if it's priced higher).
Then he (as Twitter CEO) says to the AI group or whoever is in charge of such things at Twitter, go check out the various AI training SaaS options and start work with whatever makes the most sense (naturally this could either be Tesla, or not, but it will probably be Tesla - and if it isn't, then the whole argument about "giving" Dojo to Twitter is moot, because then Twitter would use whatever the other option was).
In this way, Elon would be doing his fiduciary duty to both companies, without any actual conflict of interest, maximizing the potential of both. And yes, the solution is standardized pricing for everyone, like I said before, and you mention here, but seem to be ignoring I also said was the obvious solution. I don't know why you're fixated on this idea that Elon will just give Dojo to Twitter.
In general, I will complain when quote marks are used around an inexact quote (thus, not a quote)*.
With hindsight of a split which (momentarily) reduced the share price, not the market cap, it is even more critical to use full quote to capture meaning.
*obvious parodies excluded
Re 420:
Elon said "Whoa … the stock is so high lol"
Not "stock is too high"
Yes, a meme reference to the stock price, but without a valuation judgement and clear linkage to individual shares .
'Stock' can refer to both overall market cap and share price, but 'stock price' refers specifically to share price (only via shsre count to market cap).
Stock : Overall value / Market cap: Tesla stock is undervalued (overall) , Tesla stock rose 3% (both). Tesla stock closed up $2 (shares)
Stock price : what one pays for a share "I bought Tesla at $900", "stock price went up $2", "stock price went up 2%"
A stock can be underpriced at $10 or $1000.
The stock price can be too expensive for purchase independent of value.
Stock : Overall value / Market cap: Tesla stock is undervalued (overall) , Tesla stock rose 3% (both). Tesla stock closed up $2 (shares)
Stock price : what one pays for a share "I bought Tesla at $900", "stock price went up $2", "stock price went up 2%"
A stock can be underpriced at $10 or $1000.
The stock price can be too expensive for purchase independent of value.
I was quoting the exact phrase, that @StealthP3D used in the post I was replying to -- no misquote there *see Spoiler below.
I said Elon used those exact words, which is true, although he did not use the exact same phrase he had the extra word "price" in it, but I did not claim he used the same phrase, just that he used those words.
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I do hope you are right. I hope that the Twitter acquisition really is part of a much bigger plan.
But right now I don't see it. I don't know if "crowd-sourced neutral investigative journalism" can ever be done. I don't know if the free speech dilemma is a solvable problem. And most of all, I'm not totally convinced that Elon needs to have political power.
Thus far, Elon hasn't needed political power. His products speak for themselves. It's all been about first principles and great engineering. This is a very clean way of doing things as opposed to politics, which is a very dirty way of doing things.
Again, I hope you are right. I'm sure Elon will reveal the details of his actual plans for Twitter in the coming months. Until then, I will just wait patiently to find what this is really all about.
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