Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Not sure how new this is - but the Tesla Semi page is now live and Tesla is taking firm orders - first come first serve I guess Tesla Semi
Yes, I mentioned this on Friday, but it's nice to bring more attention to it. $20,000 for each reservation and a conservative 1,000 orders could see an additional $20 million to Tesla's balance sheet in Q2.

I just really hope that this means mass production is going to start soon since I feel that this will help convert people from fossil fuel to electric by giving a whole new audience the experience (power, efficiency, convenience, safety) of EVs
 
Nice summary. Let me just add that on some of @JimS 's charts where the stock price has run far from max pain I added a red dot which would be the logical market makers target for that Friday with Max Pain unachievable. That red dot likely goes at the point where we see a tall call wall and a desire for option sellers to keep the stock price from closing above that price. I agree that at some point in the week the market makers sometimes shift their target price to something more achievable than max pain.


The Daily Trading Charts thread contains a @JimS 's chart every weekend so that you can study the relationship between stock price and max pain over time. Rather than just comparing price to max pain each Friday, I think it's more helpful to compare price and likely market maker target each Friday, instead. That's where you'll find the strongest correlation.
Thanks very much for answering my question, @Papafox and @Chenkers, and @JimS for the charts. This weekend's Papafox post was especially helpful!

I still don't play on options, but have made two margin bets in the last 2 months that have worked out very well. Your experience and insight are a real boon (especially compared to the many non-data driven opinions-presented-as-facts in this thread).
 
..."$5B per mile. No crazy technology involved, just big pipes with big internal propellers.

"building one such aqueduct from the Gulf of Mexico to Nebraska 1000 miles away would cost $25B"...
Last I checked, Nebraska wasn't 5 miles from the Gulf...

However, there's already PLENTY of clean, fresh water at Nebraska and everywhere else if we condense it from the air somehow... There's a thread about these things somewhere on TMC
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bkp_duke
Solar powered desalination plants?
Desalination (Solar) was successfully done by Frank Shuman. Wikipedia

This did happen long time ago and it was a success at Paris(?) Expo. It was ordered by several governments.

Unfortunately, the WW happened, and his machines were melted down to make war machinery.

Every time humans seek improvement of life; they invent a new war. Cough, cough, the current one you know where. History repeats itself constantly.
 

Since we're all looking forward to a nice recession and some other general gloom and doom in the next few years, here's some real solid long term glooming and dooming to put things into perspective. Remember: this is based on a continuously running economic model since the 1970's which means it IGNORES climate change entirely. And, well, as the Magic 8-Ball would famously say: "Outlook not so good."

Note that the general predictions the model makes are eerily closely aligned with our current timeline for climate change: By 2030, we will have warmed the Earth by about 1.5C. Currently at around 1.2C today we are already seeing droughts that will never end in the American Southwest, annual firestorms in the American West and Australia, heat waves that are borderline unsurvivable by millions of humans in India, flooding in Europe that washes away entire towns, the gradual warming of desert nations like Iraq which are already forcing people to migrate away from the hottest regions, and unprecedented heat waves in places like Antarctica and Siberia which have never been seen before in recorded history.

Assuming nothing changes, and so far it really is "business as usual" as nobody except the European Union are even pretending to meet their carbon emissions targets today, much less in 2030, 2040, or 2050, we will be seeing the Earth warming up to 2C in 2040. This is mostly likely enough to trigger the largest human migrations in history as large swathes of the planet are now uninhabitable year round. Large portions of India (population: 1.4 billion) will need to be abandoned. Rising seas will drown major cities of the world, including Jakarta (population: 33 million) and Miami (population: 6 million) as examples. Societal collapse will indeed become likely once billions of humans are facing famine, death by heat in the summer, no potable drinking water. After that, the collapse is inevitable once wars for remaining resources start. Humanity's long term survival may still be possible, but civilization as we know it will be gone as billions of humans starve, die of thirst, fail to survive migrations or never have a chance to migrate before dying, or are killed in global resource wars.

Well, that was perfectly sunny and optimistic, I hope everyone has a good Monday! 😇

It might be helpful to consider that doom and gloom predictions have always been a feature of human civilization. At any given point in human history, you will find multiple eerily similar predictions that it will all come crashing down so this is nothing new. Yet humanity continues to flourish.
 
Meh. The details of that report were nothing frightening at all. With Shanghai *sugar* down, I think it was more of function of faulty expectations.
Yup.. no idea why the market had the expectations they did. Pretty sure that is just noise right now...

More important will be the series of Fed speeches tomorrow where they ease or spook the market.
 
They're waiting on a permit to open the Resorts World loop

 
"In the net-zero scenario analyzed here, spending by companies and consumers on new vehicles—cars, trucks, buses, and two- and three-wheelers—would probably average $3.4 trillion a year for the next three decades (Exhibit 2). An additional $100 billion a year would go to new EV-charging networks and hydrogen distribution and fueling systems."

Screen Shot 2022-05-16 at 7.08.17 AM.png


Screen Shot 2022-05-16 at 7.09.15 AM.png


 
Does it sound plausible that a 2million backlog exists for the model Y performance in Europe ?

Yes it is possible.
The most recent change in the master plan is to accelerate the production with more cars, and of course more factories. Battery day presentation was notable for one point: decreasing the footprint needed for battery production per plant. So is the extra space in the newer factories in Austin and Bradenburg being allocated to making the robots, stamps, presses, and machinery that will make the cars?
 
  • Funny
Reactions: replicant
Solar powered desalination plants?

Desalination plants are not all they are cracked up to be.

The heavy salt water that gets pumped back into the ocean at the end of the process is known to be toxic to many species that form the base of the food chain. A proposed desalination plant for Huntington Beach, CA (LA area) was specifically rejected this week based upon that scientific fact alone.


Would be different if they would truck the salt out to the desert and bury it or something, but desalination is already an expensive process to begin with, they won't add that expense.
 
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and I think the only viable plan is desalination on a tremendous scale.

We have more water on this planet than we could possibly use. The problem is that almost all of our H2O molecules are jumbled together with salt ions and other impurities in big pools located downhill from where we live.

The Sun’s energy has always solved this problem for us by generating evaporation, wind, clouds, rain and rivers. This has always been frustratingly inconsistent, unpredictable and unevenly distributed across Earth’s landmass. With climate change, desertification, deforestation, erosion and biodiversity loss these issues are getting significantly worse every year, and our food supply is currently dependent on unsustainable water draw rates. That’s very bad news.

Some very good news is that we can actively use the same solar energy to bypass the natural hydrological cycle to synthesize as much freshwater as we want and pump it to wherever we want and even put it in solid or gaseous form if we want. In principle, it’s physically possible to artificially refill all our lakes, rivers and streams with clean, 100% reliable water supply. With electricity we can remove the salt and other impurities and then pump the water uphill. The process is already pretty well established, with over 21,000 desalination plants in operation worldwide today, mostly concentrated in the Middle East where they have nearby saltwater, cheap oil and gas, and severe freshwater scarcity.

The problem with desalination and water transportation has always been the cost and environmental impact of the energy and pipeline requirements. A breakthrough in cheap sustainable energy and underground pipeline construction costs is needed. How else will we irrigate the Midwest when we’ve finishing sucking the Ogallala Aquifer dry? How else will East Africa survive when Lake Victoria is nothing more than a memory?

Solar energy is soon going to be cheaper per Joule, by an order of magnitude, than hydrocarbon fuels ever have been anywhere in the world. So the energy portion is already likely to be solved in a timely manner.

Underground aqueducts already exist. Mexico City, for instance, relies heavily on their pipeline infrastructure and they recently completed a 39-mile wastewater removal tunnel. Sadly, these subterranean aqueduct projects take years to complete, cost around $1 billion per mile and have insufficient flow rates to really make a dent in the overall global water crisis.

Can we fix that part? Suppose that Boring Company hits their technical goals for Prufrock and then follows that up with a MegaPrufrock variant with a 4-meter radius. It might cost 5x more per mile than regular Prufrock for a cost of about $25M per mile fully outfitted with pumps. With a 50 m^2 cross sectional area and a 20 m/s flow rate (we don’t care much about pump energy consumption in this future) it could transport 1000 m^3 of water per second.

For comparison, the discharge rate of the Amazon River is 200k m^3/s. If we wanted to deliver an equivalent flow of water, we could do it with just 200 of these aqueducts at a cost of just $5B per mile. No crazy technology involved, just big pipes with big internal propellers.

Building one such aqueduct from the Gulf of Mexico to Nebraska 1000 miles away would cost $25B. Nebraska today has about 1M irrigated acres of farmland. Our pipeline can deliver 1 acre-foot of irrigation (1200 m^3) every 1.2 seconds. Corn needs about 2 acre-feet per season.
1M acres * 2 feet irrigation * 1.2 sec/acre-ft / 86400 sec/day = 28 days of aqueduct flow to grow 1M acres of corn.​
Wow, that actually sounds ….perhaps we should take an Elon-like First Principles approach and significantly reduce the
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and I think the only viable plan is desalination on a tremendous scale.

We have more water on this planet than we could possibly use. The problem is that almost all of our H2O molecules are jumbled together with salt ions and other impurities in big pools located downhill from where we live.

The Sun’s energy has always solved this problem for us by generating evaporation, wind, clouds, rain and rivers. This has always been frustratingly inconsistent, unpredictable and unevenly distributed across Earth’s landmass. With climate change, desertification, deforestation, erosion and biodiversity loss these issues are getting significantly worse every year, and our food supply is currently dependent on unsustainable water draw rates. That’s very bad news.

Some very good news is that we can actively use the same solar energy to bypass the natural hydrological cycle to synthesize as much freshwater as we want and pump it to wherever we want and even put it in solid or gaseous form if we want. In principle, it’s physically possible to artificially refill all our lakes, rivers and streams with clean, 100% reliable water supply. With electricity we can remove the salt and other impurities and then pump the water uphill. The process is already pretty well established, with over 21,000 desalination plants in operation worldwide today, mostly concentrated in the Middle East where they have nearby saltwater, cheap oil and gas, and severe freshwater scarcity.

The problem with desalination and water transportation has always been the cost and environmental impact of the energy and pipeline requirements. A breakthrough in cheap sustainable energy and underground pipeline construction costs is needed. How else will we irrigate the Midwest when we’ve finishing sucking the Ogallala Aquifer dry? How else will East Africa survive when Lake Victoria is nothing more than a memory?

Solar energy is soon going to be cheaper per Joule, by an order of magnitude, than hydrocarbon fuels ever have been anywhere in the world. So the energy portion is already likely to be solved in a timely manner.

Underground aqueducts already exist. Mexico City, for instance, relies heavily on their pipeline infrastructure and they recently completed a 39-mile wastewater removal tunnel. Sadly, these subterranean aqueduct projects take years to complete, cost around $1 billion per mile and have insufficient flow rates to really make a dent in the overall global water crisis.

Can we fix that part? Suppose that Boring Company hits their technical goals for Prufrock and then follows that up with a MegaPrufrock variant with a 4-meter radius. It might cost 5x more per mile than regular Prufrock for a cost of about $25M per mile fully outfitted with pumps. With a 50 m^2 cross sectional area and a 20 m/s flow rate (we don’t care much about pump energy consumption in this future) it could transport 1000 m^3 of water per second.

For comparison, the discharge rate of the Amazon River is 200k m^3/s. If we wanted to deliver an equivalent flow of water, we could do it with just 200 of these aqueducts at a cost of just $5B per mile. No crazy technology involved, just big pipes with big internal propellers.

Building one such aqueduct from the Gulf of Mexico to Nebraska 1000 miles away would cost $25B. Nebraska today has about 1M irrigated acres of farmland. Our pipeline can deliver 1 acre-foot of irrigation (1200 m^3) every 1.2 seconds. Corn needs about 2 acre-feet per season.
1M acres * 2 feet irrigation * 1.2 sec/acre-ft / 86400 sec/day = 28 days of aqueduct flow to grow 1M acres of corn.​
Wow, that actually sounds feasible!

Lake Mead has a maximum capacity of 32 billion m^3. At our estimated 1000 m^3/s flow rate, Lake Mead could be completely filled from empty in one year with a single pipe. It’s 270 miles from the ocean. At $25M/mile the pipe would be $7B to construct.

I am fairly convinced by now that if Boring Co can actually hit their preposterous goals and Wright’s Law for solar development holds true for another decade or two, we can provide plenty of water for our own needs, directly fix our wildlife reserves and reverse desertification. Tesla would play a massive role in powering this infrastructure because they will be the leading energy company by the time any of this would happen.
Respectfully…….perhaps we should take an Elon-like First Principles approach and significantly reduce the amount of corn we raise in a semi-arid climate from the Ogallala Aquifer by breaking our addiction to Ethanol and High Fructose Corn Syrup. Hard to believe we are rapidly depleting our greatest aquifer to reduce our air quality, increase our waist lines, and massively increase our Carbon Footprint and global impact. And aquifer reinjecection has never proven a safe practice anyways - look no further than the impacts of aquifer reinjection by dairy farms in southern Idaho or fracking operations anywhere.