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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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So far, I have learned that you need to download the Hertz app and create an account BEFORE you rent. A rental created as a guest cannot be transferred to a member account per an actual human I talked to at Hertz. The only way to get the straight-to-th-car experience would be to cancel my reservation and start over. I declined, but will know next time.
 
Again...Blue Origin beat SpaceX to actual orbital space and they did it twice with the same rocket before SpaceX. The difference is important and worth noting, we may be seeing the same play out in self driving where Waymo gets to large scale FSD before Tesla but Tesla makes the first commercially practical implementation. I'm not sure on FSD but it's my current guess. Anyway, Blue Origin developed a rocket but had no vision, no mission beyond the same. EM wants to build a city on Mars...orbital VTVL is just a step, critical but just a step. So for spaceX it is not a curiosity but the necessary enabling technology.

It wasn't orbital but Bell had lots of experiments from the rocket belts to prototype vertical landers. Philip Bono was doing contemporary work at the same time and his work became the foundation of the DC-X. Philip Bono vision was to create a craft to take a team to Mars on a VTVL system and he did the design for such a system in 1960. In the 60's engineers dreamed large. If you want to know where Bell Company and Bono got the inspiration it was from science fiction writers and the first actual rocket to fly a person was supposedly a russian just after WWI. The real inspiration for all of that was actually science fiction, just like motorolla and their development of cell phones coming from fiction so to were rockets could be used to take off and land again and again. The vision itself is not revolutionary. The difference is EM has a plan to get there.
Orbital space is the same as a race-able circuit. Getting to the track doesn't mean you won the grand prix.
 
Maybe wording, but they would not maintain the same profit. But I wholeheartedly agree in the storm of a recession, Tesla has the high margins to allow them to reduce pricing and maintain their aggressive demand and growth strategy...even in a recession with reduced automotive sales.

I should have said "profitability", not profit. But they could also maintain or increase profits in any recession that did not require them to cut prices more than their ever-decreasing cost to produce. I've already covered all the mechanisms by which their production costs are dropping so I won't go over those again except to summarize that it's mostly due to efficiencies of scale, manufacturing innovations and the reduced transport costs that comes with factories distributed on continents where the cars are purchased.

How bad of a recession would it take to cause Tesla to cut prices more than the ever-decreasing cost to produce? My estimation is it would take a devastating recession to cause that. A recession so strong it is unlikely to actually happen at this point in time. I think if the worst happened, Tesla would still be very likely to remain profitable, albeit at lower levels than previously. A normal recession will likely not cause TSLA earnings to contract.

1) Tesla sales only make up roughly 3% of the global automotive market. While a severe recession will reduce demand for new cars it will not do it evenly across all manufacturers. There is plenty of room for new car sales to fall by 40% (for example) while Tesla sales continue to increase.

2) Tesla has far more demand than it can fill as evidenced by waiting lists in many cases of over 6 months. Any thinking person knows some potential buyers will see that and simply buy another brand, without even putting a deposit for a car they can't take delivery of for many months. This means Tesla has a lot more demand than the actual number of people who placed a deposit and got in line.

3) People pay more for a Tesla than they might choose to spend on a new gasoline car, but the additional dollars are not a frivolous or extravagant luxury, it's an investment in the future, both the buyer's financial future and, in many cases, the future of humanity. The reasons they are buying a Tesla are not weakened by a recession, in some ways they are strengthened. On the other hand, a recession is more likely to affect the buying decision of a person buying a well-appointed Lexus simply because they feel good about their financial future and they want to treat themself to a nicer car to reward themselves. Sales of other luxury brands and cheaper new autos will feel most of the impact of a recession, not Tesla.

note: Tesla earnings can be "lumpy" due to many different factors so I am not claiming each and every quarter will necessarily be higher than the last, simply that the larger trend of growing profits year over year should not be disrupted by a normal recession, even one lasting a year or longer and that Tesla would likely remain profitable even in a more drastic recession. A mild recession could even benefit Tesla.
 
In the world I live in, none of the stuff you guys angst about exists. Zero people pay attention to this internet stuff. Teslas, SpaceX and Musk are thought of very positively. I was just in Ireland and spent an hour talking to two people who were fascinated with him and his accomplishments. ( also saw a surprising number of Teslas ). I’m not too worried about the damage from fud, in fact it might sell more Teslas to conservatives.
 
Woooh, Josh just said on CNBC, GAS demand just dropped to lowest % in years. Demand destruction is starting.
What? Nineteen people recommended this? I'll have to recheck my Econ 101 book but a supply shock and higher prices aren't demand destruction. The demand for oil will continue to rise for a long time. Time to return to the real world.
 
I've noticed many people who do incredible mental gymnastics to try as hard as possible to discredit Tesla. I simply don't understand it. The financial numbers are public knowledge, anyone can see them and evaluate them, why go to such unreasonable extremes to not believe them?

I feel some people's emotions simply cloud their critical thinking a lot more than they should. I feel sorry for such people. :confused:

Even an "award-winning investigative journalist. Data scientist" with a blue Twitter check mark can't figure it out. Another example from today.

 
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Absolutely, BUT this has all very real effects on the economy. High oil and commodity prices means people can't spend money on other things, meaning demand destruction, meaning recession. Car sales drop during a recession. Now, will Tesla's order backlog hold up during a recession? I don't know the answer to that, would love to hear other's thoughts. Obviously Tesla is the best positioned auto manufacturer to ride out a recession, but does that mean its stock price will rise or stay flat? And how sure are we that we either are or will soon be in a recession? Sigh...

At this time I, don't think that the past is a useful guide to the future. There are many forces pulling in opposite directions which may partially cancel each other out.

For example, inventory levels are low with many parts and raw materials constraints, many factories are running at below capacity.

For example there is a 2 year wait for a new standard Model X, mainly due to parts constraints.

A shallow recession probably help achieve a better balance between supply and demand, a reduction in inflation and reverses constraints allowing factories to eventually return to higher levels of production, in part because stockpiling of parts and raw materials will reduce.

A recession is merely a technical measure, two quarters of negative growth, in isolation it isn't overly important.

If we focus on fundamentals, cells with single crystal cathodes have a great cycle-life, it would be great to have a cathode plant at a car factory.

Grid scale battery storage is all about cost/cycle. The right cost per cycle is a game changer in terms of demand, lowering energy prices and having a general deflationary effect.

Reducing the cost of energy improves productivity and can lower the costs of manufactured goods or improve margins.

Fundamentally Tesla is in the right place at the right time, making all the right moves, backed by a large cash buffer.
 
Don’t know if we knew Uncle Leo’s $TSLA holdings before. 7.5 million shares.


Here's Leo's previous statement on his TSLA holdings:

KoGuan Leo on Twitter: "More than 5m shares." / Twitter Sep 15, 2021


Uncle Leo has been busy hoovering up TSLA shares. About +2.5M over the past 8 months. This bear raid is a like a gift to him. Poor (literally) shortzes.

Cheers to the Longs!
 
Ha! @Gigapress thought he/she covered every aspect of the renewable energy future, but did not cover all the energy that's going to go into random number generating crypto-hand-waving.

Better update that post!

Well, that’s the shame of the so-called “renewables” world. All that infrastructure that could have been put to good use, rather than increasing the ease by which others will burn exajoules creating more crypto coins. Don’t give me any of that “it’s to facilitate transactions” - that’s 100% misleading.
 
Isn't it technically called SUBORBITAL? Hence not in actual orbit... Trying to claim BlueOrigin is better in this respect is kind of comical.

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What? Nineteen people recommended this? I'll have to recheck my Econ 101 book but a supply shock and higher prices aren't demand destruction. The demand for oil will continue to rise for a long time. Time to return to the real world.

High prices can absolutely lead to demand destruction. One example is the rare earth element price explosion caused by China restricting REE exports in a political spat. Prices of some REEs went up by more than tenfold. This led to many consumers permanently switching to non-REE alternatives. It took a decade for that market to recover.

There are people switching to EVs due to high gas prices.


The switch to EVs will be a major factor for reaching peak oil demand much sooner than the petroleum industry seems to believe.

 
In the world I live in, none of the stuff you guys angst about exists. Zero people pay attention to this internet stuff. Teslas, SpaceX and Musk are thought of very positively. I was just in Ireland and spent an hour talking to two people who were fascinated with him and his accomplishments. ( also saw a surprising number of Teslas ). I’m not too worried about the damage from fud, in fact it might sell more Teslas to conservatives.
Just gave a buddy his first ride in a Tesla, blasting down a gravel road.

His only comment. "Wow... it launches this fast on gravel!"

No mention of Twitgate or any of the other nonsense getting pumped by TSLAQ and company.