Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[hobbes]

Shanghai lockdown to be lifted:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1531289915409022978

Tesla to keep Giga Shanghai workers in closed-loop setup even as Covid lockdowns end

Tesla China is planning to keep its workers at Gigafactory Shanghai isolated, even as authorities ease movement restrictions for residents in low-risk parts of the city. Tesla Giga Shanghai’s workers would be staying in a closed-loop system until June 10, 2022. Despite the city’s stringent...

www.teslarati.com

 

[Flehmenlips]

Same problems as vehicle pack swapping though: Different form factors/capacities, stockpiling of enough for peak use volumes means it's sitting around unused most of the time, weight/structural penalty for not being integrated. I think a mobile Powerpack built into a trailer makes more sense since it can provide a service all the time, V2G, emergency backup, and load shifting.

We have a small livestock farm and have a lot of experience with frequent towing. We bought a 2020 Model X as a placeholder for our Cybertruck and have a fair amount of experience using it as our farm "truck" and towing vehicle for both a 16' aluminum livestock trailer and a 24' aluminum deck-over flatbed trailer. We typically tow once or twice a week, usually 150 miles each way. We are generally on the Interstate 5 corridor between Seattle and Portland and are of course heavy users of the Supercharger network. The biggest challenges as discussed here are the lack of consistent trailer "stalls" at the supercharger sites and the 50% or more reduction in range. We tried it for a few months and eventually gave up on the concept as it was too cumbersome. I do hope for better results with our Cybertruck. We have a Rivian R1S to be delivered in a month or so and will give that a go. I don't have high hopes for much improvement over the X, and of course without a Supercharger network, it will probably be much worse logistically. In the meantime we have gone back to using our Range Rover as the flexibility and speed of the fueling network greatly reduces the logistical complexity. I really look forward to a viable solution for this use case and am enjoying hearing the discussion of various options that may make this viable for Tesla and the mission. I like the concept of battery/motor assist on the trailer itself. Perhaps Tesla or others could design a retrofit system for existing trailers. A motor/battery mod pack or some such?

 

[ZeApelido]

- CO2 is good for plants which is good for animals. The more the better. The negatives associated with increased CO2 in the atmosphere are outweighed ten to one by the positives.

 

[traxila]

Not sure what the whole comment train was so I'll give you my abbreviated list of general criticisms:

- There is no "tipping point." Makes for a good movie though.
- CO2 is good for plants which is good for animals. The more the better. The negatives associated with increased CO2 in the atmosphere are outweighed ten to one by the positives.
- There is no "existential crisis." If I was terraforming a planet I'd start with much much higher CO2 than we have now. High CO2 makes crop production easier. More crops = no existential crisis.
- Oil and gas use will continue to rise - there's just so much you can do with it. Electric transportation, batteries, solar and wind will thrive. So will plastics, cement, chemicals and fertilizer.
- The Bot and A.I. will 10X the economy over the next 50 years. 8B people will want their own planes, cars, boats, homes and all the things that go along with the abundance provided by a carbon based economy.
- Please don't attribute every weather event to climate change. Where are all the "The weather has been unusually good lately ... must be because of climate change" articles? Funny how climate change only makes the climate worse.
- We're going to be fine. Stop scaring the kids ... it's bad for them. We haven't stolen their futures.
- ESG is a scam.

Going for a record here ... don't forget to dislike!!!

I might even beat my 1) nuclear power is a good idea or 2) Buffett isn't buying Tesla stock, he's probably buying an oil company's stock posts.

We have a thread for this.

Please go there for debate if you are interested.

 

[scaesare]

Not sure what the whole comment train was so I'll give you my abbreviated list of general criticisms:

- There is no "tipping point." Makes for a good movie though.
- CO2 is good for plants which is good for animals. The more the better. The negatives associated with increased CO2 in the atmosphere are outweighed ten to one by the positives.
- There is no "existential crisis." If I was terraforming a planet I'd start with much much higher CO2 than we have now. High CO2 makes crop production easier. More crops = no existential crisis.
- Oil and gas use will continue to rise - there's just so much you can do with it. Electric transportation, batteries, solar and wind will thrive. So will plastics, cement, chemicals and fertilizer.
- The Bot and A.I. will 10X the economy over the next 50 years. 8B people will want their own planes, cars, boats, homes and all the things that go along with the abundance provided by a carbon based economy.
- Please don't attribute every weather event to climate change. Where are all the "The weather has been unusually good lately ... must be because of climate change" articles? Funny how climate change only makes the climate worse.
- We're going to be fine. Stop scaring the kids ... it's bad for them. We haven't stolen their futures.
- ESG is a scam.

Going for a record here ... don't forget to dislike!!!

I might even beat my 1) nuclear power is a good idea or 2) Buffett isn't buying Tesla stock, he's probably buying an oil company's stock posts.

There's an implied "/s", right?

There's GOT to be an "/s".....

 

[stealthyc]

Tried the new FSD Beta software today. Mixed results, mostly it was worse for me than the prior version. I took a round trip of about 2 miles in town and had many disengagements

The good:
It took a sharp right turn much more gracefully than the prior version which would start too wide and then turn extra sharply to correct.
Turning in general was more smooth

The bad (some may be unchanged, I haven't experienced all these situations before):
- Turning on an unprotected left from a stop sign at a T intersection, from the stop line it immediately began the left turn as it creeped, completely blocking the oncoming lane, rather than creeping straight out into the intersection before making the left turn.
- It tried to turn left at a red light (no cars were coming... I stopped it 1/4 into the intersection, visualization still showed red light clearly)
- A lane began being phased out by cones, and rather than slowing down and attempting a lane change, it accelerated at the cones, leaving no opportunity for a lane change
- It doesn't understand little pedestrian warning flexible bollards bordering the lane. It displays them as cones and kept trying to come to a stop.
- While the visualization of the cars is sharper, it was showing a lot of ghost vehicles in the oncoming traffic lane when stopped at a light
- a road worker had a stop sign in my lane, and it seemed to treat it as a regular stop sign, wanting to come to a stop at the sign, not well before it

The unchanged:
- Still can't handle half the streets near me, due to it not being able to handle a bike line intended to be shared with cars. It refuses to straddle the dashed line like it should, sometimes preferring to cross a double yellow
- It still does not understand railroad lights and thinks they are traffic lights, resulting in it trying to run a red light at a particular intersection
- It still prefers maps over the reality of the roads in cases that matter to me. There is an offset intersection which maps think you need to turn left then right to cross, so it gets in the turn lane, but in reality the signage and the intersection intend for you to be in the straight lane and just jog left a little to "go straight"

I'm bullish about FSD overall and it's interesting to try out, but man it's got so far to go for it to be generally useful/usable where I live, and sometimes it really perplexes me with the wrong things it does that seem like they should be simple to address.

 

[Flehmenlips]

this is utterly moronic nonsense.

I personally appreciate his relatively reasonable response and the somewhat refreshing counterbalance to echo chamber regurgitation. I don't agree with everything cap'n diesel is saying, but do appreciate the difference of opinion. I also think there is a lot of validity to *some of* these comments. Don't believe everything you think.

 

[Singuy]

Not sure what the whole comment train was so I'll give you my abbreviated list of general criticisms:

- There is no "tipping point." Makes for a good movie though.
- CO2 is good for plants which is good for animals. The more the better. The negatives associated with increased CO2 in the atmosphere are outweighed ten to one by the positives.
- There is no "existential crisis." If I was terraforming a planet I'd start with much much higher CO2 than we have now. High CO2 makes crop production easier. More crops = no existential crisis.
- Oil and gas use will continue to rise - there's just so much you can do with it. Electric transportation, batteries, solar and wind will thrive. So will plastics, cement, chemicals and fertilizer.
- The Bot and A.I. will 10X the economy over the next 50 years. 8B people will want their own planes, cars, boats, homes and all the things that go along with the abundance provided by a carbon based economy.
- Please don't attribute every weather event to climate change. Where are all the "The weather has been unusually good lately ... must be because of climate change" articles? Funny how climate change only makes the climate worse.
- We're going to be fine. Stop scaring the kids ... it's bad for them. We haven't stolen their futures.
- ESG is a scam.

Going for a record here ... don't forget to dislike!!!

I might even beat my 1) nuclear power is a good idea or 2) Buffett isn't buying Tesla stock, he's probably buying an oil company's stock posts.

I'll be sure to send a letter to my home insurance company's actuary in FL to adjust my insurance down because "the weather has been unusually good lately".

 

[growler23]

Reminds me of the excellent movie, Thank You For Smoking. To those who haven't seen the movie, it involves a lobbyist/PR guy for big tobacco whose job it is to spin smoking into something innocuous. He had weekly lunch meetings with what they called the "Merchants of Death". They were reps from Big Alcohol, Big Fast Food etc.

The fact that execs from Exxon Mobile and the like aren't in front of Congress explaining why they lied about climate change for decades just shows how much more work we have to do.

In fact, soon after the Democrats took over in 2021, this actually happened. Dragged 'em before Congress.

Am I the only one who remembers this? Please let us not have memories < 2 years long!

NBC news link from 2021

TL;DR:

Under oath and facing harsh questioning, the heads of some of the world’s largest oil companies denied Thursday they knew their products were driving climate change and lied about it, saying they acted in good faith to cut emissions and were merely following the science at the time.

 

[Ogre]

Not sure what the whole comment train was so I'll give you my abbreviated list of general criticisms:

- There is no "tipping point." Makes for a good movie though.

I'm pretty sure the whole tipping point conversation was about EV adoption, not climate change.

There are other places to debate climate change. Not sure where, but figure it out and go there.

 

[Electroman]

Tried the new FSD Beta software today. Mixed results, mostly it was worse for me than the prior version. I took a round trip of about 2 miles in town and had many disengagements

The good:
It took a sharp right turn much more gracefully than the prior version which would start too wide and then turn extra sharply to correct.
Turning in general was more smooth

The bad (some may be unchanged, I haven't experienced all these situations before):
- Turning on an unprotected left from a stop sign at a T intersection, from the stop line it immediately began the left turn as it creeped, completely blocking the oncoming lane, rather than creeping straight out into the intersection before making the left turn.
- It tried to turn left at a red light (no cars were coming... I stopped it 1/4 into the intersection, visualization still showed red light clearly)
- A lane began being phased out by cones, and rather than slowing down and attempting a lane change, it accelerated at the cones, leaving no opportunity for a lane change
- It doesn't understand little pedestrian warning flexible bollards bordering the lane. It displays them as cones and kept trying to come to a stop.
- While the visualization of the cars is sharper, it was showing a lot of ghost vehicles in the oncoming traffic lane when stopped at a light
- a road worker had a stop sign in my lane, and it seemed to treat it as a regular stop sign, wanting to come to a stop at the sign, not well before it

The unchanged:
- Still can't handle half the streets near me, due to it not being able to handle a bike line intended to be shared with cars. It refuses to straddle the dashed line like it should, sometimes preferring to cross a double yellow
- It still does not understand railroad lights and thinks they are traffic lights, resulting in it trying to run a red light at a particular intersection
- It still prefers maps over the reality of the roads in cases that matter to me. There is an offset intersection which maps think you need to turn left then right to cross, so it gets in the turn lane, but in reality the signage and the intersection intend for you to be in the straight lane and just jog left a little to "go straight"

I'm bullish about FSD overall and it's interesting to try out, but man it's got so far to go for it to be generally useful/usable where I live, and sometimes it really perplexes me with the wrong things it does that seem like they should be simple to address.

This is the singular reason I said earlier why there have been no accidents in FSD. Which many of course disagreed.

 

[JRP3]

- CO2 is good for plants which is good for animals. The more the better.

False for a number of reasons but TLDR version is growing too large too quickly can actually weaken plants plus make them less nutritious. Discuss that and your other misunderstandings further here

Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

Paramount+ streaming has the 'Black Gold' series. If you have T-Mobile or Sprint, check your T-Mo Tues for a free 1 year subscription. Then there's this... https://electrek.co/2022/05/17/automakers-lobbying-toward-climate-catastrophe-production-goals-wont-meet/

teslamotorsclub.com

and here

Climate Change Denial

Incorrect... Manufacturing is a small portion of their total annual emissions. Denial is not the solution. We need China to partner on the use of clean energy. “Manufacturing is a small portion…” /shows graph with manufacturing #2 on the list 😆 What do you suppose a significant...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Buckminster]

Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

 

[EVMeister]

If TSLA closes red, I personally blame Cpt. Kero for polluting this thread.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Welp, Wall St had no problem corralling any TSLA breakouts today. Dropped it right from the start and all they had to was cap the rest of the day

Side Note - Who in their right mind would be buying Amazon (Up 5% today) at TTM P/E of 57 over TSLA at 102.......especially when anyone that can do basic math and still think TSLA is going to do at least 1.4 million deliveries this year can deduce that TSLA would end the year at TTM P/E of around 57, if not lower than that, if the stock was still at 759 come end of 2022.

 

[stealthyc]

This is the singular reason I said earlier why there have been no accidents in FSD. Which many of course disagreed.

To be clear I don't think anything it did incorrectly would result in an accident even if I did not disengage.

 

[JustMe]

There is strong and broad physical evidence that global warming and climate change is occurring that poses significant risk to life on Earth. The link to human activity is also obvious.

NASA lays out the compelling evidence in an accessible format for the public at the website below.

Climate Change

NASA is a global leader in studying Earth’s changing climate.

climate.nasa.gov

 

[Singuy]

Tried the new FSD Beta software today. Mixed results, mostly it was worse for me than the prior version. I took a round trip of about 2 miles in town and had many disengagements

The good:
It took a sharp right turn much more gracefully than the prior version which would start too wide and then turn extra sharply to correct.
Turning in general was more smooth

The bad (some may be unchanged, I haven't experienced all these situations before):
- Turning on an unprotected left from a stop sign at a T intersection, from the stop line it immediately began the left turn as it creeped, completely blocking the oncoming lane, rather than creeping straight out into the intersection before making the left turn.
- It tried to turn left at a red light (no cars were coming... I stopped it 1/4 into the intersection, visualization still showed red light clearly)
- A lane began being phased out by cones, and rather than slowing down and attempting a lane change, it accelerated at the cones, leaving no opportunity for a lane change
- It doesn't understand little pedestrian warning flexible bollards bordering the lane. It displays them as cones and kept trying to come to a stop.
- While the visualization of the cars is sharper, it was showing a lot of ghost vehicles in the oncoming traffic lane when stopped at a light
- a road worker had a stop sign in my lane, and it seemed to treat it as a regular stop sign, wanting to come to a stop at the sign, not well before it

The unchanged:
- Still can't handle half the streets near me, due to it not being able to handle a bike line intended to be shared with cars. It refuses to straddle the dashed line like it should, sometimes preferring to cross a double yellow
- It still does not understand railroad lights and thinks they are traffic lights, resulting in it trying to run a red light at a particular intersection
- It still prefers maps over the reality of the roads in cases that matter to me. There is an offset intersection which maps think you need to turn left then right to cross, so it gets in the turn lane, but in reality the signage and the intersection intend for you to be in the straight lane and just jog left a little to "go straight"

I'm bullish about FSD overall and it's interesting to try out, but man it's got so far to go for it to be generally useful/usable where I live, and sometimes it really perplexes me with the wrong things it does that seem like they should be simple to address.

Bike lane intended to be shared with cars? What an edge case. In my state we don't put in useless lanes like "bike lanes intended to be shared with cars" when they serve zero purpose. We just have regular lanes...and once in a while some bicyclist will be on them.

 

[Flehmenlips]

Tried the new FSD Beta software today. Mixed results, mostly it was worse for me than the prior version. I took a round trip of about 2 miles in town and had many disengagements

The good:
It took a sharp right turn much more gracefully than the prior version which would start too wide and then turn extra sharply to correct.
Turning in general was more smooth

The bad (some may be unchanged, I haven't experienced all these situations before):
- Turning on an unprotected left from a stop sign at a T intersection, from the stop line it immediately began the left turn as it creeped, completely blocking the oncoming lane, rather than creeping straight out into the intersection before making the left turn.
- It tried to turn left at a red light (no cars were coming... I stopped it 1/4 into the intersection, visualization still showed red light clearly)
- A lane began being phased out by cones, and rather than slowing down and attempting a lane change, it accelerated at the cones, leaving no opportunity for a lane change
- It doesn't understand little pedestrian warning flexible bollards bordering the lane. It displays them as cones and kept trying to come to a stop.
- While the visualization of the cars is sharper, it was showing a lot of ghost vehicles in the oncoming traffic lane when stopped at a light
- a road worker had a stop sign in my lane, and it seemed to treat it as a regular stop sign, wanting to come to a stop at the sign, not well before it

The unchanged:
- Still can't handle half the streets near me, due to it not being able to handle a bike line intended to be shared with cars. It refuses to straddle the dashed line like it should, sometimes preferring to cross a double yellow
- It still does not understand railroad lights and thinks they are traffic lights, resulting in it trying to run a red light at a particular intersection
- It still prefers maps over the reality of the roads in cases that matter to me. There is an offset intersection which maps think you need to turn left then right to cross, so it gets in the turn lane, but in reality the signage and the intersection intend for you to be in the straight lane and just jog left a little to "go straight"

I'm bullish about FSD overall and it's interesting to try out, but man it's got so far to go for it to be generally useful/usable where I live, and sometimes it really perplexes me with the wrong things it does that seem like they should be simple to address.

My experience with FSD beta is very similar to yours. However, I keep reminding myself; It *is* still in beta. I believe the level of functionality lives up to the beta status. It operates in a manner consistent to other public beta products I have used, such as iOS. What I have determined is that Navigate On Autopilot is a very polished and extremely useful package, *greatly* reducing stress and accident potential during freeway travel. I LOVE it! FSD beta on the otherhand (on city streets) is actually MORE stressful to use and requires FAR greater attention than NOT using it. That said, I love using FSD on city streets for the sheer entertainment value and the exhilarating view into the outstanding progress that the Tesla AI team is making. Mind blowing progress. I also am super bullish, but recognize there remains a lot of improvement to be made. I wish there was better information on how to contribute to the beta improvement. I haven't really looked into it, but does anyone know how to report serious issues?

As an aside, unfortunately for me, my wife successfully got us kicked off the beta last week. We are not sure why but it was related to two incidents of forced disengagement in one trip. She swears she doesn't know what the first one was for. She was driving a windy mountain road that we frequently travel, and FSD is generally good but definitely has issues. She said in the middle of a curve it disengaged and gave a message mentioning something about telemetrics. The second penalty was for exceeding 80 mph on the freeway about an hour later. The message said we may get the privilege back on a subsequent software update, but that is all we know. I'm bummed, but because I prefer NOA anyway, it's not that big of a deal. oh well.

 

[Discoducky]

Yes, yes, yes!!!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1531730381187301378