Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[MP3Mike]

So the government is going contract out the build these stations? I always though a better route was some incentives for the current players to build out faster. Let them cover most of the cost but some incentive $$ if it meets certain standards.

They can do it themselves, or they can contract it out to someone else.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Watch out Mary, looks like we have another “leader” on our hands!

This must be "The Passage of Time" that VP Harris always alludes to....

 

[M|S|M MYP]

,
The Bolt is going to be a "no-see-um" at the $26K price point. That's just to make headlines, to support the notion that GM is a leader in bringing the price of EV' down. It will also be used to get people in the door to kick tires. It's the equivalent of a magician's handkerchief. Watch what the other hand is doing.

Hint: It will be selling ICE cars for more than they are worth.

"Watch what the other hand is doing." - I was going to comment on this but thought I better not

 

[Ogre]

What a cluster. From a lot of digging the main requirements seem to be:

• Every ~50 miles on major highways
• Within 1 mile of the highway
• A minimum of 4 CCS chargers capable of 150kW each.
• A minimum of 600kW of electrical service. (So that all 4 chargers can be used at the 150kW rate at the same time.)

Note: They are allowed to buy adapters from CCS to something else. So they could buy Tesla CCS adapters to tether to the stations. They can also contract out the design, build, maintenance, and operation. So they could just hire Tesla to do it.

The bad part is that the states have less than 2 months to create and submit their plan to get access to the money. (Due 8/1/2022.) Though it seems like they have already determined how the money will be split between the states for FY22, which totals $615M: FHWA Notice N 4510.863 - Apportionment Of Fiscal Year (FY) 2022 Highway Infrastructure Program Funds for the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Formula Program Pursuant to the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act | Federal Highway Administration

Texas gets the most at $60M, followed by California at $56M, Puerto Rico gets the least at $2M. (They even have almost $8M earmarked for Alaska.)

Thanks for interpreting gub-speak for us.

I would be quite ok with someone other than Tesla expanding the network of fast chargers to the back country. Hopefully sometime before these get installed Tesla will release their CCS -> Tesla adaptor so we can take advantage of it. That said, I am hugely concerned about reliability.

The big joke about all of this is the companies which are going to wind up with these contracts are going to have little to no incentive to actually do so with long term plans to maintain them. So we're very likely to get hundreds of new quickly broken fast charging locations spread across the country which meet the absolute minimum requirements with nobody hanging around to fix them because it's more profitable to install more then it is to fix the crappy ones they installed 2 months prior.

Good chance this will cement the idea that non-Tesla EV charging is a giant turd-bag and make owning non-Tesla EVs even less appealing.

 

[bkp_duke]

Hey guys. Remember the big infrastructure bill that was signed by Biden back in Nov. 15 2021? it contained 7.5 billion for EV charging... well after about 7 months hey finally issued a statement about the progress...
A little painful for us TMC'rs as they take credit for the amount of "EV" sold in the US this past year...
Anyways, this could have been such an easy win for them. Just give the $ to Tesla and you can claim credit for instantly turning on (by adding adapters) the largest EV charging network in the world. Looks like they will take the long and painful road instead.

FACT SHEET: Biden-Harris Administration Proposes New Standards for National Electric Vehicle Charging Network | The White House

Bipartisan Infrastructure Law Investments to Enable Families to Plug-In, Charge Up, and Drive Across America Today, the Biden-Harris Administration is announcing new steps to meet President Biden’s goal to build out the first-ever national network of 500,000 electric vehicle chargers along...

www.whitehouse.gov

And this turd in the punchbowl is why I prefer private, competitive environments over gov handouts.

I predict that even after these "500,000" chargers are built, that the chargers themselves and the charging network overall will still be vastly inferior to what Tesla has at the time, and will cost more on a per charger basis. In the end, it will have only done a marginal job of advancing the mission of transitioning to EVs, but will probably have lined a few companies pockets.

 

[bkp_duke]

Puerto Rico? You could drive a loop around the whole island and not use a full charge. Why do they even need charging infrastructure?

Have you been to PR? It's not exactly the best roads, very mountainous in some areas (i.e. high usage on an EV per mile), etc. I sure would not want to be stuck on the opposite side of the island from the "only" fast charger there is.

 

[Marc_K_inNJ]

And this turd in the punchbowl is why I prefer private, competitive environments over gov handouts.

I predict that even after these "500,000" chargers are built, that the chargers themselves and the charging network overall will still be vastly inferior to what Tesla has at the time, and will cost more on a per charger basis. In the end, it will have only done a marginal job of advancing the mission of transitioning to EVs, but will probably have lined a few companies pockets.

At least it will be Union Made!
That's all that matters... right...?

 

[ZeApelido]

Impressive unprotected left turn progress in the past year

 

[JWM3]

Thanks for interpreting gub-speak for us.

I would be quite ok with someone other than Tesla expanding the network of fast chargers to the back country. Hopefully sometime before these get installed Tesla will release their CCS -> Tesla adaptor so we can take advantage of it. That said, I am hugely concerned about reliability.

The big joke about all of this is the companies which are going to wind up with these contracts are going to have little to no incentive to actually do so with long term plans to maintain them. So we're very likely to get hundreds of new quickly broken fast charging locations spread across the country which meet the absolute minimum requirements with nobody hanging around to fix them because it's more profitable to install more then it is to fix the crappy ones they installed 2 months prior.

Good chance this will cement the idea that non-Tesla EV charging is a giant turd-bag and make owning non-Tesla EVs even less appealing.

I don't think any company other than Tesla will do well on DCFC stations.
Their business model doesn't give them good profit margins, the electricity cost is controlled by utility company and they need to keep price low to attract customers. The business model is similar to gas stations, we all know gas stations only make money on their retail stores and services, which these DCFC companies don't have any.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

These charging stations are gonna be garbage, and the people soaking up the tax dollars will be the typical leeches, but best to just not worry about it. That's what govt does. Better to waste it here than on oil subsidies.

Hell, the DoE was celebrating their first big loan guarantee today. Hooray! The very same loan program that marginally helped Tesla scale. You know what it's going towards? "Hydrogen hubs" to keep the methane fracking industry going an extra 10 years. You can't make this stuff up.

Hopefully Tesla can jump into this charger program and build out a whole bunch of quality charging stations. As always, the higher quality will just highlight how much better Tesla engineering is in comparison to the rest.

 

[ZeApelido]

Elon Musk reveals what Tesla's Master Plan Part 3 is about

Elon Musk has revealed more details about what his Tesla Master Plan Part 3 will be about during a new companywide meeting with employees.

electrek.co

Master Plan Part 3 is all about achieving very large scale. In order to shift the entire energy infrastructure and transport infrastructure of earth, there has to be a very high scale. We have to ask what is the actual tonnage? If we work backward from let’s say about 300 TWh of installed capacity in vehicles and stationary (battery packs) then how do you achieve that tonnage from a mining and refining standpoint, but also do so in a sustainable way.

That’s what Master Plan Part 3 is: how do you get to enough scale to actually shift the entire energy infrastructure of earth

 

[Ogre]

I don't think any company other than Tesla will do well on DCFC stations.
Their business model doesn't give them good profit margins, the electricity cost is controlled by utility company and they need to keep price low to attract customers. The business model is similar to gas stations, we all know gas stations only make money on their retail stores and services, which these DCFC companies don't have any.

Probably best case would be one of the truck stops or gas station chains with big convenience stores or restaurants winning as many of these as possible. Either that or Tesla & Electrify America.

 

[wipster]

Puerto Rico? You could drive a loop around the whole island and not use a full charge. Why do they even need charging infrastructure?

Ya gotta start somewhere...

 

[cab]

And this turd in the punchbowl is why I prefer private, competitive environments over gov handouts.

I predict that even after these "500,000" chargers are built, that the chargers themselves and the charging network overall will still be vastly inferior to what Tesla has at the time, and will cost more on a per charger basis. In the end, it will have only done a marginal job of advancing the mission of transitioning to EVs, but will probably have lined a few companies pockets.

Ecotality/EV Project Part 2: The Reckoning

 

[Prunesquallor]

Probably best case would be one of the truck stops or gas station chains with big convenience stores or restaurants winning as many of these as possible. Either that or Tesla & Electrify America.

I think you’re right. They won’t be able to break the mold. Chargers at gas stations with credit card slots and ads playing.

 

[UnknownSoldier]

I agree other auto makers doesn’t have good margins. However, I don’t understand how GM is able to lower so much on the price of Bolt. Do they make money on the $26K MSRP?

GM is trying to sell Bolts in the context of every single one being previously recalled for self-immolation. It's kind of hard to sell a car which has a reputation for bursting into flames, see Ford Pinto for further information. I don't think they care that much about the price or making money in that context, but discontinuing the Bolt entirely wouldn't look that good since Biden has already recognized the great GM as the leader in electrification and Mary led and it matters!

 

[MountainRatMat]

These charging stations are gonna be garbage, and the people soaking up the tax dollars will be the typical leeches, but best to just not worry about it. That's what govt does. Better to waste it here than on oil subsidies.

Hell, the DoE was celebrating their first big loan guarantee today. Hooray! The very same loan program that marginally helped Tesla scale. You know what it's going towards? "Hydrogen hubs" to keep the methane fracking industry going an extra 10 years. You can't make this stuff up.

Hopefully Tesla can jump into this charger program and build out a whole bunch of quality charging stations. As always, the higher quality will just highlight how much better Tesla engineering is in comparison to the rest.

Hey everyone, I'm starting a DCFC company. Does anyone want to invest in it?

 

[AudubonB]

Tread carefully regarding that likely ephemeral $26K Bolt price, because all of us who deal on a regular basis with those who denigrate Tesla for….well, for its very existence, it sometimes seems - will be subjected to questions like the following: “How many Model 3s ever were sold for $35K?“

I don’t know the answer, but hope that someone here can come up with the definitive response so that all can have it at the ready.

 

[deshkart]

Anyone want to watch trailer of Tesla AI day ?

 

[thesmokingman]

Anyone want to watch trailer of Tesla AI day ?

What you mean its not this one?