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The widely regarded no 1 quality content newspaper in The Netherlands, NRC Handelsblad, published a review of the Model Y.
The catchy headline of the article: "The Tesla Model Y is not God, but almost."
Cannot think of title that will make you want to read an article more.

"Car test: No car has a higher IQ than a Tesla, writes Bas van Putten. Everything goes fast. Loading, navigating, operating."

Translation from Dutch of a big part of the article:
"The first Tesla Model Y from the new Tesla factory near Berlin is a psychological milestone. The dragon slayer of the German car industry is now building fat Americans under the smoke of the Reichstag. Musk is sitting there, which is ironic, because no German car chief believed in his revolution. In this way he could accelerate unhindered, and that is why Germans now also assemble Teslas, as if the Trojans built the Horse themselves.

You hardly notice a German quality bonus. The Brandenburg Tesla is not better put together than the Californian. Germans would be hysterical about the headliner panel. Push the edge and you'll see it move, millimeters of play – but it doesn't rattle. As if the Germans are fighting so hard for their premium pretensions, by the way. They have been under a lot of pressure lately. The low margins on electric cars make concessions on finishing and use of materials unavoidable. There the difference only gets smaller. Its ecological performance, on the other hand, still leaves the German competition suffocating.

Time and again, Teslas surprise with their incredible efficiency, including this two-ton, high, four-wheel drive SUV. Its two engines together produce 462 horsepower and the overkill seems like a dream recipe for a consumption orgy. But he sucks current like a hamster from a pet water bottle.

At departure, the range is 478 kilometers. The temperature is favorable with 16 degrees, the strong wind is a bummer. On arrival, after 191 kilometers of driving, I nevertheless have power left for 298 kilometers. The Y has thus consumed 15.1 kWh per 100 kilometers with the air conditioning on, which had a hard time with the huge cabin under the heat-enhancing glass roof. My tiny electric BMW, more than 650 kilos lighter, makes that with difficulty on a beautiful day. Comparably large plug Koreans consume almost at the same level, but no like-minded German sucks as discreetly as this Y. And then you're talking about a car that crushes a Porsche Taycan at the traffic light sprint. I didn't drive faster than 110 with the Performance, but to the shame of my honor and damage to my body, I fully depressed the pedal once. You literally see stars. The Model Y isn't God, Elon already is, but almost."


Articles like this sell Teslas here in The Netherlands.
 
Model 3/y at the port of Trondheim in Norway. There is a car carrier loading up
C399C227-90EE-413C-A402-A1FE22B65E73.jpeg
 
The widely regarded no 1 quality content newspaper in The Netherlands, NRC Handelsblad, published a review of the Model Y.
The catchy headline of the article: "The Tesla Model Y is not God, but almost."
Cannot think of title that will make you want to read an article more.

"Car test: No car has a higher IQ than a Tesla, writes Bas van Putten. Everything goes fast. Loading, navigating, operating."

Translation from Dutch of a big part of the article:
"The first Tesla Model Y from the new Tesla factory near Berlin is a psychological milestone. The dragon slayer of the German car industry is now building fat Americans under the smoke of the Reichstag. Musk is sitting there, which is ironic, because no German car chief believed in his revolution. In this way he could accelerate unhindered, and that is why Germans now also assemble Teslas, as if the Trojans built the Horse themselves.

You hardly notice a German quality bonus. The Brandenburg Tesla is not better put together than the Californian. Germans would be hysterical about the headliner panel. Push the edge and you'll see it move, millimeters of play – but it doesn't rattle. As if the Germans are fighting so hard for their premium pretensions, by the way. They have been under a lot of pressure lately. The low margins on electric cars make concessions on finishing and use of materials unavoidable. There the difference only gets smaller. Its ecological performance, on the other hand, still leaves the German competition suffocating.

Time and again, Teslas surprise with their incredible efficiency, including this two-ton, high, four-wheel drive SUV. Its two engines together produce 462 horsepower and the overkill seems like a dream recipe for a consumption orgy. But he sucks current like a hamster from a pet water bottle.

At departure, the range is 478 kilometers. The temperature is favorable with 16 degrees, the strong wind is a bummer. On arrival, after 191 kilometers of driving, I nevertheless have power left for 298 kilometers. The Y has thus consumed 15.1 kWh per 100 kilometers with the air conditioning on, which had a hard time with the huge cabin under the heat-enhancing glass roof. My tiny electric BMW, more than 650 kilos lighter, makes that with difficulty on a beautiful day. Comparably large plug Koreans consume almost at the same level, but no like-minded German sucks as discreetly as this Y. And then you're talking about a car that crushes a Porsche Taycan at the traffic light sprint. I didn't drive faster than 110 with the Performance, but to the shame of my honor and damage to my body, I fully depressed the pedal once. You literally see stars. The Model Y isn't God, Elon already is, but almost."


Articles like this sell Teslas here in The Netherlands.
Teslas surprise with their incredible efficiency, including this two-ton, high, four-wheel drive SUV. Its two engines together produce 462 horsepower and the overkill seems like a dream recipe for a consumption orgy. But he sucks water like a hamster from a pet water bottle.


Uhh….nice Google translate? 🤣
 
4 posters here are claiming they got VINs for MY LR built in Austin. I thought they were fake reports, but maybe it’s happening. Seems quick considering some of the tooling parts where still in China just a few weeks ago.


The plot thickens :) Maybe Elon was sandbagging after all.

 
The plot thickens :) Maybe Elon was sandbagging after all.

Interview was like 3 weeks right? That’s ages ago in Tesla time…

I realized that today. So many bears are looking at last 3 months or last year. What actually matters is the derivate, the current production rate. And likely by now Tesla are close to 400k/month rate right, the 250k/month that they will do in Q2 doesn’t matter.
 
I’m surprised by the ease with which many on this thread are willing to assume Elon’s comments mean nothing or simply indicate business as usual. I’ll be the first to admit we are lacking clarity and real specific details, but as investors it seems prudent to consider all the possibilities and avoid an echo chamber of rainbow, butterflies and unicorns.

It seems to be factual that the 4680 ramp isn’t going as optimal as hoped. It seems when building the Austin and Berlin gigas, Tesla had to plan for a certain 4680 ramp/maturity. I believe they bet fairly big or optimistically on where the 4680 ramp would be...maybe too much so? We've seen Tesla acknowledge that Berlin had a 2170 backup plan pretty early on. I think he said they are putting in a similar plan in Austin. I believe these adjustments to the original plan and the compatibility with structural pack is the real curve ball at the new gigas. Of course all the supply chain issues exasperate the problem and offer additional issues with chips and more. I know Tesla is agile and doing amazing things to overcome....but we are operating without a lot of positive data here on this topic, so it seems like we shouldn't assume everything is rosey...I am hoping to learn more about the 4680 ramp and mitigation plans at our next conference call to give us more facts and clarity.
Sure, an update would be nice, but they have provided guidance. The last conference call said 4680s in volume Q4 or late Q3, not a bottleneck till 2023.

Very early on (possibly C19 induced), Austin became the lead site for 4680 structual pack and dual castings with Berlin launching on the 2170 non-structural rear casting only version. The main building delays and lack of a completed cell factory in Germany show they had visibility.

The factories carry a baseline amount of expense just by existing (depreciation, utilities, taxes, labor). This money has low return if the factory is not making cars as a result. However, that meaning of burn is less problematic than scrap which is a process problem and has no return (Model 3 ramp).
Part inventory stockpiling is not burned so much as spent early (good thing they have space).
 
That is a bizarre flaw and frankly sketchy as hell. The pedals are supposed to be OVER engineered and not liable to break due to a small part. It's sketchy because most of the vehicle is over engineered o its rather surprising to find these gaps.
The accelerator pedals broke in the Prius a few years ago due to substandard outsourcing (with lots of media coverage). I suspect the same happened to Rivian.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Mike Ambler
I’m surprised by the ease with which many on this thread are willing to assume Elon’s comments mean nothing or simply indicate business as usual. I’ll be the first to admit we are lacking clarity and real specific details, but as investors it seems prudent to consider all the possibilities and avoid an echo chamber of rainbow, butterflies and unicorns.

It seems to be factual that the 4680 ramp isn’t going as optimal as hoped. It seems when building the Austin and Berlin gigas, Tesla had to plan for a certain 4680 ramp/maturity. I believe they bet fairly big or optimistically on where the 4680 ramp would be...maybe too much so? We've seen Tesla acknowledge that Berlin had a 2170 backup plan pretty early on. I think he said they are putting in a similar plan in Austin. I believe these adjustments to the original plan and the compatibility with structural pack is the real curve ball at the new gigas. Of course all the supply chain issues exasperate the problem and offer additional issues with chips and more. I know Tesla is agile and doing amazing things to overcome....but we are operating without a lot of positive data here on this topic, so it seems like we shouldn't assume everything is rosey...I am hoping to learn more about the 4680 ramp and mitigation plans at our next conference call to give us more facts and clarity.
Did you mean “exacerbate” or that the problem itself has become irritated and angry?
 
Interview was like 3 weeks right? That’s ages ago in Tesla time…

I realized that today. So many bears are looking at last 3 months or last year. What actually matters is the derivate, the current production rate. And likely by now Tesla are close to 400k/month rate right, the 250k/month that they will do in Q2 doesn’t matter.

You mean per quarter right ;)? 400k/month would be 4.8 million per year 😂
 
Lots of equipment from the 4680 ramp are also made in China. Like 90% of everything is made in China or has parts that are made in China. I don't know what that has to do with anything.

Also you can't just have 2 production lines from day one because you haven't hired enough people for 2 lines. Texas started out with a 4680s and wants a 2170 line installed but it's delayed due to shutdown, Berlin has a 2170 and needs to install a 4680. It's a pretty good strategy when you have plenty of 2170s laying around and you need a production line like Texas to work out the kinks of the 4680s.
It's not that it is made in China, who cares where it's made. It's that something that is mission critical to that factory is going to be shoehorned in and the lack of that equipment is hampering the ramp of the factory has to be ordered from across the ocean and was ordered 2 years too late. You don't just call your battery line equipment maker and order up a new 2170 and fedex ships it next day. That was ordered months and months ago, if not last year.

There is no positive way to spin nor to dismiss away this fact. Berlin was planned to also run on 2170s...Austin was not. Austin's 2170 line should have been ordered 2 years ago What was happening last summer that had management's eye off the ball? Now you are seeing the limits of the Tesla management team. They should have been living in the facility on Kato road. Oh well, it just shows that Tesla is as subject to management failures as any other organization ever created. But fail they did. Not getting these $ back, they'll shoe horn this in ($) and then have to remove them ($) in two years assuming 4680 scales. In the meantime Panosonic has been telling us 2024 for production for the 4680 and guess what...yeah that seems about right. It's ok to say Tesla failed at something, they fail at plenty of things. I appreciate your upbeat perspective on things, it's a pleasure actually. You do so in a way that is life affirming.

Tesla will go through this entire crap fest and move faster than any other OEM to get Austin running. But to be off on the planning by 2 or more years and to have wasted billions because of this...that's not anything other than a mistake. Rather than trying to defend or explain away what was obviously a failure I think you'll find it more instructive to look back in time and figure out why it happened and use that knowledge to understand the risks associated with Tesla. It's why Gary Black sold when he heard about bitcoin (and in retrospect that was well timed). Tesla is not a risk free company and they don't always execute well (solar roof, bitcoin, 4680 ramp).

Take the CT- announced 3 1//2 years ago. Was supposed to start production in 2021. Then 2022. Now saying 2023. Ford launched the f150 lightening last month, they had announced it in january 2019. About 8 months ahead of Tesla's CT. So, Ford can go from announcement to launch faster than Tesla? I mean for the mission we need every EV possible as fast as possible. Since I can't get a CT I'd buy a Ford Lightening if I could get one. At some point I'll be able to get one or the other but there won't be a first mover advantage any longer. Was the CT announcement just a ploy to take wind away from Ford? Maybe.
 
$6k? Wow. I would bite at 2k, maybe 3k. But there are not enough features in EAP compared to AP for me to plop down 6k.

Bring on the flames . . .

EDIT - shows up in my Tesla app, so it is live for purchase.
I agree. I am about to leave for a long road trip and would love to have auto lane change. But $6k for auto lane change is ridiculous. If they offered it for $2k I would buy immediately.
 
I agree. I am about to leave for a long road trip and would love to have auto lane change. But $6k for auto lane change is ridiculous. If they offered it for $2k I would buy immediately.
The other thing is EAP adds less than $1k to the resale value of an older car when EAP was available. This is going from nothing to EAP.

Going from Autopilot to EAP on recent cars will mean nothing for resale.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: jkirkwood001
It's not that it is made in China, who cares where it's made. It's that something that is mission critical to that factory is going to be shoehorned in and the lack of that equipment is hampering the ramp of the factory has to be ordered from across the ocean and was ordered 2 years too late. You don't just call your battery line equipment maker and order up a new 2170 and fedex ships it next day. That was ordered months and months ago, if not last year.

There is no positive way to spin nor to dismiss away this fact. Berlin was planned to also run on 2170s...Austin was not. Austin's 2170 line should have been ordered 2 years ago What was happening last summer that had management's eye off the ball? Now you are seeing the limits of the Tesla management team. They should have been living in the facility on Kato road. Oh well, it just shows that Tesla is as subject to management failures as any other organization ever created. But fail they did. Not getting these $ back, they'll shoe horn this in ($) and then have to remove them ($) in two years assuming 4680 scales. In the meantime Panosonic has been telling us 2024 for production for the 4680 and guess what...yeah that seems about right. It's ok to say Tesla failed at something, they fail at plenty of things. I appreciate your upbeat perspective on things, it's a pleasure actually. You do so in a way that is life affirming.

Tesla will go through this entire crap fest and move faster than any other OEM to get Austin running. But to be off on the planning by 2 or more years and to have wasted billions because of this...that's not anything other than a mistake. Rather than trying to defend or explain away what was obviously a failure I think you'll find it more instructive to look back in time and figure out why it happened and use that knowledge to understand the risks associated with Tesla. It's why Gary Black sold when he heard about bitcoin (and in retrospect that was well timed). Tesla is not a risk free company and they don't always execute well (solar roof, bitcoin, 4680 ramp).

Take the CT- announced 3 1//2 years ago. Was supposed to start production in 2021. Then 2022. Now saying 2023. Ford launched the f150 lightening last month, they had announced it in january 2019. About 8 months ahead of Tesla's CT. So, Ford can go from announcement to launch faster than Tesla? I mean for the mission we need every EV possible as fast as possible. Since I can't get a CT I'd buy a Ford Lightening if I could get one. At some point I'll be able to get one or the other but there won't be a first mover advantage any longer. Was the CT announcement just a ploy to take wind away from Ford? Maybe.
Cell != pack != pack general assembly marriage equipment. Which are you talking about? 4680 structural does not remove the use case for LFP and 2170 non-structural vehicles.

Tesla is not limited by lack of models. All Tesla vehicle and energy products rely on the same pool of semiconductors. They cannot build more things than they are now. Cybertruck would be parts starved with underutilized equipment and labor.
 
I’m surprised by the ease with which many on this thread are willing to assume Elon’s comments mean nothing or simply indicate business as usual. I’ll be the first to admit we are lacking clarity and real specific details, but as investors it seems prudent to consider all the possibilities and avoid an echo chamber of rainbow, butterflies and unicorns.

It seems to be factual that the 4680 ramp isn’t going as optimal as hoped. It seems when building the Austin and Berlin gigas, Tesla had to plan for a certain 4680 ramp/maturity. I believe they bet fairly big or optimistically on where the 4680 ramp would be...maybe too much so? We've seen Tesla acknowledge that Berlin had a 2170 backup plan pretty early on. I think he said they are putting in a similar plan in Austin. I believe these adjustments to the original plan and the compatibility with structural pack is the real curve ball at the new gigas. Of course all the supply chain issues exasperate the problem and offer additional issues with chips and more. I know Tesla is agile and doing amazing things to overcome....but we are operating without a lot of positive data here on this topic, so it seems like we shouldn't assume everything is rosey...I am hoping to learn more about the 4680 ramp and mitigation plans at our next conference call to give us more facts and clarity.
Okay let’s go with that for argument’s sake. So, what’s your point then? Exactly.

Does it mean TSLA is worth the current SP? Or less?
Does it mean Tesla is going bankrupt?

In relation to Tesla/TSLA as an investment what exactly does the above POV mean to you? Because to me it doesn’t change a single itty bitty thing. To me, it’s literally just noise like the day to day SP gyrations.
 
Okay let’s go with that for argument’s sake. So, what’s your point then? Exactly.

Does it mean TSLA is worth the current SP? Or less?
Does it mean Tesla is going bankrupt?

In relation to Tesla/TSLA as an investment what exactly does the above POV mean to you? Because to me it doesn’t change a single itty bitty thing. To me, it’s literally just noise like the day to day SP gyrations.
The point you silly cat is that the next 3 product launches require the 4680. That panosonic says 2024. That tesla, despite a 2 year head start, can not get the 4680 lines to really scale much faster than panosonic. That like bitcoin sometimes Tesla screws up. That any wise investor would be looking at the risks associated with their investment and be monitoring the performance of the company.

Because Tesla is operating in a period of high demand this won't impact things too much other than some blown capital. In 2 years it appears we'll be awash in alternative vehicles. In 4 years some of them may be quite decent and not early kludges. Ford may have some 250,000 trucks on the road before Tesla and at that point may be really scaling- they will have battery capacity to do a million a year at that point.