Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[scaesare]

In one of his videos, Ingineerix claimed that V2G ain't happening based off deliberate designs of the components. Later, Phil commented that this is on purpose as Tesla wants to sell Power Walls.

Yeah, that's based on using in-car inverters.... I agree based on Phil's tear-down and analysis, that ain't happening with current in-car units.

The scenario I posited bypasses that as an issue, and instead moves the DC->AC inverter functionality in to a hypothetical V2G capable hybrid Wall Connector.

Can't see any technical reason why it couldn't be done.


ON EDIT: @willow_hiller beat me to it... agreed.

 

[scaesare]

I've given this some thought as well.

I'd consider a more likely first step would be for Tesla to incorporate this type of approach into Powerwall V3. The Powerwall already has the inverters so the main thing required is a DC-DC connection from the car to the Powerwall battery (assumed LFP in PWv3). This would effectively see the car providing a massive capacity boost to the Powerwall with the inbuilt electronics controlling the car charge state and power flow to the house or grid.

Other cars that have provided V2G have generally required an expensive wall box (~$10k) to provide the connection. There are also wall chargers on the market that can do V2G for slightly lower cost (eg. Wallbox Quaser). If Tesla were to incorporate this into Powerwall it should be a cheaper option. Plus the battery cycling issue would be less of a concern with the standard range LFP cars that are now being delivered in some markets.

Yeah, an integrated PowerWall V2G capability would make sense.

The other functionality could be DC-DC style fast car charging... i.e. "Supercharger Lite" ... using the PowerWall pack...

 

[2daMoon]

Sorry, going to have to call you on that, @StealthP3D. Mathematically impossible.

If = poor, and =
and = =
then ≠
which we know is FALSE*

In actuality,
= = , and =
therefore ≠
therefore ≠
TRUE

* If grumpy people (Shorts) are poor, and happy TSLA investors are rich
and @Krugerrand has a mountain (is a happy TSLA investor)
then @Krugerrand is not grumpy (FALSE)
/S

I'll nominate this as a "Post of Peculiar Merit"

... anyone second the motion?

 

[Nocturnal]

I've given this some thought as well.

I'd consider a more likely first step would be for Tesla to incorporate this type of approach into Powerwall V3. The Powerwall already has the inverters so the main thing required is a DC-DC connection from the car to the Powerwall battery (assumed LFP in PWv3). This would effectively see the car providing a massive capacity boost to the Powerwall with the inbuilt electronics controlling the car charge state and power flow to the house or grid.

Other cars that have provided V2G have generally required an expensive wall box (~$10k) to provide the connection. There are also wall chargers on the market that can do V2G for slightly lower cost (eg. Wallbox Quaser). If Tesla were to incorporate this into Powerwall it should be a cheaper option. Plus the battery cycling issue would be less of a concern with the standard range LFP cars that are now being delivered in some markets.

Yes! I've had that thought as well. Win/win.

 

[bkp_duke]

In one of his videos, Ingineerix claimed that V2G ain't happening based off deliberate designs of the components. Later, Phil commented that this is on purpose as Tesla wants to sell Power Walls.

Additionally, for V2G you really need VERY precise output regulation, because home loads vary a lot, and quickly (pop on the microwave and your AC at the same time and see what I'm talking about). This is exactly what Tesla's Gateway does to regulate input/output from the Powerwalls. Per above, this circuitry is not included in any meaningful way in the cars.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Just checking in from the beach. Sounds like 4680 is cancelled and Tesla is pivoting to online retail? Love it!

We're coming for you Sears Roebuck!

Have we thought about getting into oil extraction? I hear it's blowing up.

 

[Knightshade]

the tooling necessary for making the 2170 variant cars was stuck in China…which then basically caused this factory’s production ramp to be very tiny. But now, this is all gonna get fixed real fast.”

That "was", combined with apparently LR Ys coming out of Austin, suggests the past tense there is intentional and those LRs are 2170

 

[bkp_duke]

That "was", combined with apparently LR Ys coming out of Austin, suggests the past tense there is intentional and those LRs are 2170

To clarify, since some people here (not you) are conflating 2170 PACK and 2170 CELLS in Austin. Elon was referring to the tooling needed to use 2170 CELLS in Austin to build a PACK on-site that will fit in a car designed for 4680 structural packs. They are shipping in 2170 cells to Austin to build these packs. They ARE NOT building 2170 cells on-site, which would require much much more equipment, of which the "drying ovens" make the 2170 cell lines something like 5X as big as the "dry" 4680 lines.

Just so everyone is on the same page, which reading the above replies from people, makes me think they are not.

This is exactly how Berlin is working, cells are shipped to the site (and motors), and then integrated into packs. Cells are not produced on site, and the only on-site production is going to be 4680 cells.

 

[StealthP3D]

Sorry, going to have to call you on that, @StealthP3D. Mathematically impossible.

If = poor, and =
and = =
then ≠
which we know is FALSE*

In actuality,
= = , and =
therefore ≠
therefore ≠
TRUE

* If grumpy people (Shorts) are poor, and happy TSLA investors are rich
and @Krugerrand has a mountain (is a happy TSLA investor)
then @Krugerrand is not grumpy (FALSE)
/S

Haha, but I was talking about people that were grumpy and pessimistic (about TSLA). Because we have @Krugerrand . Additionally, grumpy is @Krugerrand 's trademark. It's mostly an act. Sorry to let the cat out of the bag.

I will provide 6 minutes of cat and dog information in compensation:

 

[AudubonB]

MODERATOR: No more letting this thread go to the dogs - or cats.

 

[Don TLR]

Win on Sunday Sell on Monday, that’s been racings mantra for decades. Don’t forget Randy is having another go at Pikes Peak this weekend. It’s not like Tesla has a buyer shortage but.. Let’s hope they can run the full course this year and set real full course records and show that the cars also go fast in corners. Plaid for the Win!!

 

[thesmokingman]

In other news, graphics card pricing is starting to come back to reality. I think this is a good look for all as GPU's can be an indicator of supply vs demand. GPU's hit the stratosphere well before autos and they are now coming back to reality. Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel soon for autos.

GPU Price Index 2024: Lowest price on every graphics card from Nvidia, AMD, and Intel today

Check the best prices on Nvidia RTX and AMD Radeon graphics cards

www.tomshardware.com

 

[MABMAB]

MODERATOR: No more letting this thread go to the dogs - or cats.

Tjhen you have about 17000 pages to eliminate here.

 

[Knightshade]

In other news, graphics card pricing is starting to come back to reality. I think this is a good look for all as GPU's can be an indicator of supply vs demand. GPU's hit the stratosphere well before autos and they are now coming back to reality. Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel soon for autos.

GPU Price Index 2024: Lowest price on every graphics card from Nvidia, AMD, and Intel today

Check the best prices on Nvidia RTX and AMD Radeon graphics cards

www.tomshardware.com

FWIW, next-gen stuff is also coming out in a couple months, so the fact they're "only" near MSRP right now, when in the past they'd be comfortably discounted this close to launching next gen, isn't quite the win for consumers you might think.... Scalpers have no interest in stocking up on cards that'll be out of date shortly, so suddenly there's better availability at retail because those guys aren't buying them up...(compounded with the decline in value of crypto on top of it)

 

[Drumheller]

In other news, graphics card pricing is starting to come back to reality. I think this is a good look for all as GPU's can be an indicator of supply vs demand. GPU's hit the stratosphere well before autos and they are now coming back to reality. Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel soon for autos.

GPU Price Index 2024: Lowest price on every graphics card from Nvidia, AMD, and Intel today

Check the best prices on Nvidia RTX and AMD Radeon graphics cards

www.tomshardware.com

It's because of a decline in crypto more than anything else. GPUs were being hoarded by crypto miners the past few years.

 

[Singuy]

In other news, graphics card pricing is starting to come back to reality. I think this is a good look for all as GPU's can be an indicator of supply vs demand. GPU's hit the stratosphere well before autos and they are now coming back to reality. Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel soon for autos.

GPU Price Index 2024: Lowest price on every graphics card from Nvidia, AMD, and Intel today

Check the best prices on Nvidia RTX and AMD Radeon graphics cards

www.tomshardware.com

I think this has lots to do with miners dumping their GPUs more than anything. Happens every time when crypto booms and bust. The auto makers are using way less sophisticated 7nm silicon but I do feel like supply constraints are getting better on that side as well.

 

[thesmokingman]

I think this has lots to do with miners dumping their GPUs more than anything. Happens every time when crypto booms and bust. The auto makers are using way less sophisticated 7nm silicon but I do feel like supply constraints are getting better on that side as well.

Sure there's a lot of factors at play. However both Nvidia and AMD stated that supply will improve this half of the year.

Sweet relief: Nvidia says GPU supply will increase this year | Digital Trends

Buying a graphics card is a nightmare right now, but Nvidia says it’s confident GPU supplies will increase later in 2022. We’ve got our fingers crossed.

www.digitaltrends.com

AMD sounds optimistic on fixing GPU shortage

CEO says aim is to get enough supply out there to satisfy the strong demand

www.techradar.com

Yea, miners are dumping cards but I'm talking about new not used burnt out miner cards. We avoid those cards for a reason. However the greater point is that cards really are nearing MSRP for the first time in YEARS.

Crypto Miners Start Dumping GPUs, RTX 3080s Listed for $523

Finally, the light at the end of the tunnel

www.tomshardware.com

 

[The Accountant]

Wu Wa Update:
- The video depicts Shanghai continuing at a blistering pace.
- Wu Wa mentions that there were some layoffs in Shanghai across various departments,; however,
- recent filing documents show Tesla will add 4,000 employees with the current expansion taking headcount to 19.000.
- Wu Wa mentions "15 days off" for the "renovation" but he mentions "staggered transformation". Not sure what he means by that . . .maybe that portions of factory will still be in production during renovation as they stagger the upgrade across various departments.

Video can be found here:
Wu Wa's Shanghai Video - June 24

 

[SmokyPeat]

I'm hearing speculation that there may be a significant spike in TSLA share price during the final minutes before market close today. Would be nice to close at or above 750.

 

[ThisStockGood]

I'm hearing speculation that there may be a significant spike in TSLA share price during the final minutes before market close today. Would be nice to close at or above 750.

Source? Reddit?