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Saw my first Kia EV6 in the wild today. Looked great and a solid attempt at an EV better than ICE. $42k CAD with gov. incentives compared with $62k CAD for lowest price Tesla Model 3. This South Korean company knows the future and glad they are taking EVs seriously and sexy. More EV choices will only expand the EV pizza pie-ya.

So to date, I have now seen one Kia EV6, one Mercedes EQS, two Audi e-tron, four Ford Mustang Mach-E and five Posrche Taycans total, ever. That compared to seeing over a dozen Teslas in a short 15 minute ride this morning. Teslas are more common here than apple pie, and this is 2400 miles away from Fremont. Come on competition. You all look great. Now let's get out there and show everyone how to play.


I've been watching Kona EV, Soul EV with great interest. Unfortunately, years have passed and the progress is nowhere to be seen. It's been better than the Leaf.

The battery capacity is low, charing relies on 3rd party solutions and crash tests tell the story. Yes, those are good cars, but with existence of Tesla at its current level it is hard to go for a product line which seems to be stagnant. The EV6 does look interesting and I am sure it is a good car as well. Yet, with simple difference of having/not having Tesla Supercharging network I'd not consider any other EV.

With my MY which happens to be my 1st EV, I took 1,600 miles trip without much worry. The capacity of MY at any level is unmached. What's EV6 winter range if its EPA is 238 in ideal conditions.

It might be a good offer for city/suburbia drivers, but can we honestly call it competition? I don't think so.

Good offer, perhaps, but competition to Tesla, no.




Lastly, we need tens of thousands, if not millions of EVs that people like and want to buy. I wish that they produce lots of EV cars that people will buy and enjoy.
 
Moderator’s substitution for what HAD been written here:

I CAN THINK OF NO reason Supreme Court decisions of a sociopolitical nature EVER can be considered as appropriate for this thread.


And neither can YOU. Nor, apparently, can a good number of others, based on the large number amount of Disagrees this now-deleted post very quickly received
 
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Wonder if this is only part of a charging solution for the gigafactories. Doesn't seem very efficient, but maybe they have a new car carrier setup they will implement where cars are preloaded, charged and then ready for a semi to show up, link to the carrier, and then set off.

Or this is in preparation for Tesla semis which will need to charge too.

Anyone have any other ideas?
 

Wonder if this is only part of a charging solution for the gigafactories. Doesn't seem very efficient, but maybe they have a new car carrier setup they will implement where cars are preloaded, charged and then ready for a semi to show up, link to the carrier, and then set off.

Or this is in preparation for Tesla semis which will need to charge too.

Anyone have any other ideas?
This was discussed previously, and many concluded it was some type of double decker charging on a trailer
 
This was discussed previously, and many concluded it was some type of double decker charging on a trailer

In this photo you can see the double decker trailer being used. Considering the number of carriers that are used this doesn't seem like it will be efficient. Guess I'll have to wait and see how it develops
 

don't be fooled by TMCs interpretation/summation of the link.

If you have a CCS adapter, I’ve noticed that the Electrify America CCS station in Kodak is about 1/4 the cost of this Pigeon Forge supercharger.

We’ve been avoiding this supercharger because it’s soooooo expensive after the price hikes. The EA station I can charge for about a quarter of the costs.

Is EA selling electricity at or below cost on purpose or are they just slower than Tesla to adjust pricing?

Could affect the so called supercharger advantage.
 

Wonder if this is only part of a charging solution for the gigafactories. Doesn't seem very efficient, but maybe they have a new car carrier setup they will implement where cars are preloaded, charged and then ready for a semi to show up, link to the carrier, and then set off.

Or this is in preparation for Tesla semis which will need to charge too.

Anyone have any other ideas?
It says right there... It looks like the logical way to charge any cars loaded onto the transporter.

This is an invention of @Tesla to charge #ModelY on the car transporter.
 
No FSD step changes since last year? Really?

I don't test in Bay Area suburbia or anything similar because that type of FSD driving is already well covered. I test on a mountain road where one small mistake can lead to death. Cliffs or near cliffs on both uphill and downhill sides of the road, narrow and twisty with inconsistent corners and cambers, grades abruptly changing, lane markings that most often don't exist at all, no centerline or shoulders and almost every corner is 100% blind with no good clue as to what is coming next. Trees and rocks block vision everywhere. Because the road was built in the 1920's, the corners are dictated by the terrain and drainage needs which is why there are decreasing radius and off-camber corners, inconsistent grade changes etc. There are also no guardrails at all, the road edges are often a direct route down the mountain. In short, a nightmare for any system with pretenses of being autonomous. Humans tend to drive it either like Mario Andretti (because they know the road) or a complete beginner peeing their pants.

For the first 3 years I would typically end my testing at the beginning of the steep climb, the last 9 miles to the summit because it would fail multiple times, every time, and often in ways that were very deadly if intervention was not immediate. One of its favorite failure modes was to think the old-growth forest backdrop of a hairpin corner was a long straight-away. I suspect it was aiming for a large trunk as it would try to accelerate off the road at high speed into large trees, I can tell you, that would not end well. I would slam on the brake at the last possible moment and come to a stop at the outside shoulder of the hairpin turn.

Still, every few months I would let it have a go at the last section of road when traffic was non-existent, but it couldn't consistently and properly position itself to enter blind corners. I would stay hyper-alert for the first sign of on-coming traffic while letting it do its thing. Even letting it have its dangerous way, it could not hope to complete this section of road without multiple human interventions to avoid certain disaster. It was completely hopeless, and the most discouraging part was that it seemed to have no idea how to position itself to safely enter narrow and blind corners and it didn't help that there are no lane markings whatsoever on many of these corners. Just blacktop patches or chip seal blurring invisibly into road sand, forest duff, trees and rocks.

About 4 weeks ago, after much of the winter snow had melted, I gave it another go. I didn't have much hope other than my M3P had a new verion of FSD. To my surprise and delight, it drove the entire road without a single intervention, and, more importantly, it had learned how to set itself up to safely enter blind corners! This was a huge step change of the highest order! It was not a gradual improvement.

The entire 9 miles the car drove very much like a human, save for one 300-degree corner near the top where it briefly hesitated by slowing to 15 mph instead of driving smoothly around at 20 mph. In all other cases, the car slowed appropriately for each corner and accelerated smoothly and confidently out of each one (unless there was another sharp corner immediately in which case it just continued around, as a human would).

In the last couple of miles there was a wide pile of snow avalanche debris comprised of heavy, wet, melted snowpack completely covering the downhill lane. It was shaped like a tongue and was about 20 feet wide and 4 feet deep on the uphill edge of the road and tapering to zero exactly at the centerline, which is marked on this section of road. This would cause considerable damage to any car that drove into it at 30 mph. On the uphill leg, FSD simply drove by the avalanche debris in the downhill lane at 30 mph as if it didn't exist. On the downhill leg I was concerned because there was a blind bend in the road only a little more than 100 feet beyond the avalanche debris. If FSD exhibited uncertainty and poked along at slow speed in the on-coming lane, it would be subject to a head on collision if another motorist coming around the blind corner didn't react quickly enough.

Descending the mountain, I felt like we were approaching the wall of snow awfully quickly at 30 mph and FSD was showing no signs that it recognized the threat. I did not look at the center display because I had my full attention on "driving" and was preparing to take over because the uphill lane had no shoulder and no guardrail and any car venturing off the narrow pavement would accelerate as they bounded hundreds of feet down a 60-degree slope. Since my attention was outside the vehicle. I don't know when or if the center display pictured the avalanche debris, but the car smoothly changed into the on-coming lane and went immediately back into the downhill lane, as smoothly as the most professional driver, before gently applying the brakes (regen) and taking the corner at 25 mph. As if it were nothing at all. I could not have done it smoother or more appropriately myself! Going slower would have been more dangerous because it could have left us with nowhere to go in the event a fast-moving vehicle had rounded the blind corner at the inopportune moment.

The entire trip, up and down the mountain, positioning itself appropriately for the entrance to blind corners, slowing down and speeding up smoothly, very similar to the way a good human driver would react, avoiding the avalanche debris more safely than your average human would have done, all without intervention, I would call that a real step change in FSD. Remember, the FSD team does not work on all scenarios and driving conditions simultaneously and just because you, personally, are not driving in scenarios that have undergone massive transformation, that doesn't mean huge improvements have not been made. Just last year, FSD would try to kill me every time by accelerating off into old-growth trees or entering blind corners too wide.

The primary reason FSD is such a difficult problem is due to the huge variety of driving scenarios that must be solved for. I'm super impressed with the recent improvements on narrow twisty roads, often lacking any pavement marking whatsoever. People who think FSD is nothing more than a glorified "stay between the lines" are in for a surprising awakening!
James Douma talked about FSD being similarly impressive on mountain roads and along 101 on the California/ Oregon Coast.

I’m very excited about this myself since it’s one place where Autopilot has consistently been frustrating.

EDIT: In the recent Dave Lee interview
 
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that Aldrich Batista guy sure does post some good content. Just found this infographic while looking at some of his old posts. Good for when you need to debunk the next round of FUD on vehicle fires.

99301426b774def982a13027568d7346bafc9f61041ebd0b1b5d77dd1d4592db.png

After crunching car fire statistics and sales data, the authors of the study found that hybrids actually have more fires per 100K sales, with:

Hybrid vehicles: 3,474 fires per 100K sales
Gas vehicles: 1,529 fires per 100K sales
Electric vehicles: 25 fires per 100K sales"
 

Wonder if this is only part of a charging solution for the gigafactories. Doesn't seem very efficient, but maybe they have a new car carrier setup they will implement where cars are preloaded, charged and then ready for a semi to show up, link to the carrier, and then set off.

Or this is in preparation for Tesla semis which will need to charge too.

Anyone have any other ideas?
Loading carriers strikes me as slow and inefficient. Loaded carriers conveyed out of the factory ready for the truck to hook up and pull them away eliminates all the loader guys scampering around; a few Kuka robot loaders could place them on the trailer & tie them down somehow.

That, since you asked about ideas, is my idea, FWIW.
 
Loading carriers strikes me as slow and inefficient. Loaded carriers conveyed out of the factory ready for the truck to hook up and pull them away eliminates all the loader guys scampering around; a few Kuka robot loaders could place them on the trailer & tie them down somehow.

That, since you asked about ideas, is my idea, FWIW.
I presume the current process is something like this:

1. Driver takes just completed car off end of assembly line, onto test track, parks at charger.
2. Another driver moves car from charger when it’s finished and parks it in the parking area ready for carrier pickup
3. Upon car carrier arrival, several staff load cars onto carrier.
4. Carrier driver leaves with vehicles.

Maybe instead in futrue it will look like this:
1. Driver takes just completed car off end of assembly line, onto test track, parks straight onto carrier trailer, awaiting tesla semi to arrive.
2. Tesla Semi arrives, attaches trailer - moves to the double decker charging rack where the Semi as well as all the cars are charged simultaneously.

That seems like a big reduction in needed manpower, and if they need to charge the Semi anyway, then might as well use that same time and idle semi driver to plug in the cars on the trailer also.
 
James Douma talked about FSD being similarly impressive on mountain roads and along 101 on the California/ Oregon Coast.

I’m very excited about this myself since it’s one place where Autopilot has consistently been frustrating.

EDIT: In the recent Dave Lee interview
If this is true, I wish some of these improvements would trickle down to EAP. I’m tired of the errant ‘Forward Collision Warning” on the same stretch of 2-lane road a mile from home.
 
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Maybe instead in futrue it will look like this:
1. Driver takes just completed car off end of assembly line, onto test track, parks straight onto carrier trailer, awaiting tesla semi to arrive.
2. Tesla Semi arrives, attaches trailer - moves to the double decker charging rack where the Semi as well as all the cars are charged simultaneously.

That seems like a big reduction in needed manpower,

Great write up. I think we can all agree that this is the intention of the double decker stations. While reading your post I couldn’t help but think of Elons adage “the best part is no part”.

Snake Charger and Full self driving will remove all human involvement in these steps and take us a few step closer to the machine that builds the machine. Throw in some Tesla Bots and the picture becomes clear.
 
Don't worry. Never again. Message received.
While it's still weekend...

So like that, @jbcarioca as a member is gone.

To me at least, for the last 5+ years hanging out here, @jbcarioca was a rare member with unique perspectives which no other could have provided and he shared here generously and frequently and therefore, the value of this thread was enhanced vastly during his tenure here.

Certain (maybe just one?) members with special privilege have an uncanny "talent"👿 of driving away the most valuable contributors. Such contributors have exceedingly high signal-to-noise ratio. But nobody is perfect. I hate to speculate loudly why certain special member(s) is extra sensitive and harsh toward occasional "transgressions" from such contributors, while let some prolific trolls slide day in and day out. In an ideal world, such valuable contributors should be granted special privilege/immunity. Alas, I guess all good things must come to an end :(
 
I presume the current process is something like this:

1. Driver takes just completed car off end of assembly line, onto test track, parks at charger.
2. Another driver moves car from charger when it’s finished and parks it in the parking area ready for carrier pickup
3. Upon car carrier arrival, several staff load cars onto carrier.
4. Carrier driver leaves with vehicles.

Maybe instead in futrue it will look like this:
1. Driver takes just completed car off end of assembly line, onto test track, parks straight onto carrier trailer, awaiting tesla semi to arrive.
2. Tesla Semi arrives, attaches trailer - moves to the double decker charging rack where the Semi as well as all the cars are charged simultaneously.

That seems like a big reduction in needed manpower, and if they need to charge the Semi anyway, then might as well use that same time and idle semi driver to plug in the cars on the trailer also.
Fun stuff, I recall the first discussion on this. Yes, manpower is key, so is minimize TPT (Throughput Time), a key goal with lean manufacturing.

With that in mind, and knowing there's a truck driver shortage, here's my guess. The truck drivers don't need to wait for it to load and charging is parallel truck waiting.
 
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While it's still weekend...

So like that, @jbcarioca as a member is gone.

To me at least, for the last 5+ years hanging out here, @jbcarioca was a rare member with unique perspectives which no other could have provided and he shared here generously and frequently and therefore, the value of this thread was enhanced vastly during his tenure here.

Certain (maybe just one?) members with special privilege have an uncanny "talent"👿 of driving away the most valuable contributors. Such contributors have exceedingly high signal-to-noise ratio. But nobody is perfect. I hate to speculate loudly why certain special member(s) is extra sensitive and harsh toward occasional "transgressions" from such contributors, while let some prolific trolls slide day in and day out. In an ideal world, such valuable contributors should be granted special privilege/immunity. Alas, I guess all good things must come to an end :(
What the heck? A story was deleted... none of my business I guess. Would be a shame if so.
 
I presume the current process is something like this:

1. Driver takes just completed car off end of assembly line, onto test track, parks at charger.
2. Another driver moves car from charger when it’s finished and parks it in the parking area ready for carrier pickup
3. Upon car carrier arrival, several staff load cars onto carrier.
4. Carrier driver leaves with vehicles.

Maybe instead in futrue it will look like this:
1. Driver takes just completed car off end of assembly line, onto test track, parks straight onto carrier trailer, awaiting tesla semi to arrive.
2. Tesla Semi arrives, attaches trailer - moves to the double decker charging rack where the Semi as well as all the cars are charged simultaneously.

That seems like a big reduction in needed manpower, and if they need to charge the Semi anyway, then might as well use that same time and idle semi driver to plug in the cars on the trailer also.
Ha, better yet... first job for Primus!

Job Description:
- Plug and unplug the vehicles
- Do stairs all day
- Monitor and adjust tire pressure, and
- Cross to the other side safely!