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Elon has commented that S/X aren’t that important (in the grand scheme), but tesla HAS historically prioritized higher margin sales. And Elon said they screwed up the refresh, particularly with the X.

A simpler explanation for the still slow S/X ramp is component shortages. Though maybe labor is an issue, too.

It will all wash out in the end. Pretty crazy that they’re still not delivering outside of NA.
From memory with Model S/X production was 25,000 per quarter they were making the 75D variant.
My recollection is production rate dropped to 16,000 per quarter and the 3rd shift was dropped when they stopped making 75D.

From the Munro tear down of the Model S Plaid pack it contains a lot of 18650 cells, my impression is more cells than a Raven.

They could have stockpiled some 18650 cells, while production was shut or ramping, but my recollection is that form-factor can be used for Powerwalls.

Finally we had the prospect of a Plaid+ Model S at some stage using 4680 cells, or some other form factor. The Plaid+ was dropped, and I don't think it is likely that that decision is a whim. Dropping Plaid+ seems like a carefully considered reordering of priorities.

If cells are a constraint, sourcing more 18650 cells might be a path to higher production volumes.

When the 3rd shift was laid off, many would have been redeployed to other roles within Tesla, or left the company and got work elsewhere. No one was sitting by the phone waiting for a call.

It is likely some experienced Fremont staff have moved to Austin to help with the ramp there, and with training. So if staff are an issue, it can be fixed, but it isn't a quick fix.

It is likely some aspects of the ramp where "screwed up", they need to get all of the kinks out before sourcing more batteries, and hiring more staff.

Model X was always a complicated and difficult to build car. The refresh was an attempt to update the old platform with new components, while minimising changes to the body. Sometimes that is more difficult than a clean sheet design.

I'm not claiming that they are getting everything right, just that they are not making lazy mistakes, The mistakes are a result of high ambition, hard work, and a complex environment.
 
Amazing that Tesla can deliver $2.4B in Non-GAAP earnings despite the Shanghai shutdown, the ramping of 2 new sites and with Bitcoin and Severance charges.

I am estimating:
  • GAAP EPS at $1,67 ($1.99 excluding Bitcoin charge)
  • Non-GAAP EPS at $2.01 (2.34 excluding Bitcoin charge)

My Q2 Forecast Here: Q2 2022
My Full Year Forecast Here: Full Year Forecast

I appreciate and enjoy your detailed estimates.

How much does Tesla save in Q2 by having nearly all their debt retired? Is it like $50M of what used to be maintenance on $2B+?
 
Both as a consumer and a stockholder I'd rather see him push the Austin 4680 SR AWD price into the low 40s (Say $42,000 + Paint + choice of EAP/FSD).

We know that after chips catch up to demand this year they will be cell limited. I want to see them reduce price on SR AWD Model Y to increase quantities and I think that is a better way to death knell legacy on top of my desire to see full output from Austin/Berlin and my desire to be able to buy a MY cheaper than I can now.

That makes great sense for the consumer, but just doesn't matter right now when Tesla is sold out for every single Model Y they can make of any kind thru mid 2023.

What I see is Tesla being in the delightful position of ramping volume at very high margin prices into unlimited demand, with the ability to cut prices if/when needed in the future while the competition would have to run negative to follow them there.
 
For the slow S&X ramp my hypothesis is that they are disproportionately impacted by the shortage of chips and other parts compared to the 3&Y.

Tesla has been doing a bunch of work every quarter changing vehicle designs and rewriting firmware to dodge one chip problem after another. Because the 3/Y platform has like 15x more volume than S or X, a given amount of engineering change work is much more valuable for 3/Y, so they’re probably prioritizing that.

Also, S&X are fancy high luxury models that use more chips per vehicle than 3&Y, which makes it more likely one chip type is in short supply at any given time.

I do believe we can confidently rule out low demand as the cause of the low volumes for S&X because the selling prices are $16-25k higher than in Jan ‘21.

Overall I’m agnostic about the question of whether Tesla has botched the refreshed S&X ramp in the last few quarters, because I think we lack sufficient information to determine the answer right now.
In February Elon said the interior trim was the llimiting factor for the X. I'm guessing it still is. The higher prices along with the long wait times show low production is not due to low demand. As the demand for EVs in general grows I see the demand for the S & X growing resulting in production of them surpassing pre-refesh numbers.


Elon Musk

@elonmusk

Replying to
@SawyerMerritt
and
@WholeMarsBlog
Model X is an extremely difficult car to build. Most complex passenger car ever. Limiting factor is interior trim.


1:22 PM · Feb 9, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

 
A recession will imply a reduction in demand-across the board. Which should hit legacy/ICE harder than Tesla. That cut in demand will cut cash flow and hence spending, especially from legacy companies that are already deeply in debt. The increased interest rate/higher borrowing costs puts similar pressure on legacy. All of which means that Tesla, with a ton of free cash and little debt, is in a position of power. Equipment manufacturers will be willing to make deals to book orders and keep some work in their shops. Same with long-term orders for raw materials, as well as components, meaning Tesla may be able to lock in at lower costs. And with their margins, Tesla has a lot of room to cut prices to spur demand, which I think is inevitable anyway. The real death-knell for legacy would be for Tesla to sell MYLRs at $50k-which I think they might be able to do and still turn a profit. But, Elon doesn't seem that bloodthirsty and wants other companies to survive-building EVs of course.

The real question is how long will this recession last (I'm assuming we're already in one-we'll know for sure when we see GDP numbers in a couple weeks) and how deep will it be? Bad part is it might be a long one-this feels like the late 70s in so many ways. Other question-what legacy will survive (say by 2030, with deaths hastened by the recession). I wouldn't put money on much beyond Hyundai/Kia and perhaps VW at the moment.

I strongly doubt that used Y SRs will be selling for $42k any time soon, let alone shiny new ones fresh from the factory. Demand is far too strong.

There’s only so many Ys to go around and if people keep bidding the prices up there’s nothing Tesla can do about that. If the cost gets pushed to $42k then the backlog will stretch out years and flippers will buy up all the cars to resell for the actual market-clearing price.

That makes great sense for the consumer, but just doesn't matter right now when Tesla is sold out for every single Model Y they can make of any kind thru mid 2023.

What I see is Tesla being in the delightful position of ramping volume at very high margin prices into unlimited demand, with the ability to cut prices if/when needed in the future while the competition would have to run negative to follow them there.

Giga and Zen you both seem to have read my reply without keeping in mind the scenario it was written to address.

It was purely a discussion of what model Tesla should focus on if a recession hit so hard that they had to drop prices.

TN Mtn Man suggested they focus on dropping the price on the LR MY to get under the price limit to keep demand strong.

I replied that SR MY is a better way to do that because they will be Cell limited compared to max capacity of the plants they have built. If they are trying to spur demand because everything is in the dumps the SR MY is at a much lower price point than the LR MY.

What you think will happen if there isn't a recession strong enough to force price to drop is immaterial to the discussion I was having.

If you want to down vote someone try down voting the person that suggested that scenario instead of piling on me for replying to it. Or consider just replying to that scenario without down voting me for replying to it.

Either way is good as long as you don't reply with straw man arguments about the current situation when we were discussing a specific hypothetical scenario.
 
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I appreciate and enjoy your detailed estimates.

How much does Tesla save in Q2 by having nearly all their debt retired? Is it like $50M of what used to be maintenance on $2B+?

Yes - Interest Expense used to be as high as $170m per Qtr in early 2020 and now it is about $51m.
In addition to Interest Expense decreasing we now see Interest Income rising.

1656809766294.png
 
Giga and Zen you both seem to have read my reply without keeping in mind the scenario it was written to address.

It was purely a discussion of what model Tesla should focus on if a recession hit so hard that they had to drop prices.

TN Mtn Man suggested they focus on dropping the price on the LR MY to get under the price limit to keep demand strong.

I replied that SR MY is a better way to do that because they will be Cell limited compared to max capacity of the plants they have built. If they are trying to spur demand because everything is in the dumps the SR MY is at a much lower price point than the LR MY.

What you think will happen if there isn't a recession strong enough to force price to drop is immaterial to the discussion I was having.

If you want to down vote someone try down voting the person that suggested that scenario instead of piling on me for replying to it. Or consider just replying to that scenario without down voting me for replying to it.

Either way is good as long as you don't reply with straw man arguments about the current situation when we were discussing a specific hypothetical scenario.

I read your post, and understood the context. I did not downvote anything.

I simply feel that the existing order books for Tesla Model Y LR's (in particular) are so strong that Tesla would not need to be scrambling for a bargain model in order to have enough demand for the max output of their factories - at least not for a year or more.

That's just my opinion - offered as such. Not trying to make anyone mad.
 
I read your post, and understood the context. I did not downvote anything.

I simply feel that the existing order books for Tesla Model Y LR's (in particular) are so strong that Tesla would not need to be scrambling for a bargain model in order to have enough demand for the max output of their factories - at least not for a year or more.

That's just my opinion - offered as such. Not trying to make anyone mad.

any reply of yours that quotes my post without quoting TN Mountain Man's post or specifying that you are discussing his scenario ends up on a later page without his post and affords someone else in the thread to read my post out of context and reply to your post out of context.

If you had quoted his post or responded to him I wouldn't have had any issue with the content of your post.
If you had responded to me but clearly mentioned that you didn't think his scenario would come to pass then you would have no reason to respond to my post.

If you had responded to me but clearly mentioned his scenario and then wanted to say my response to his scenario is wrong that would continue the conversation.

But your response seemed to be ignoring the scenario we were discussing and started a path that would look out of context on the next page.

Basically I don't care what opinion you post so long as you don't misrepresent mine.

I never said that the scenario was likely to happen in any time frame, but your reply does imply that I did.
 
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Giga and Zen you both seem to have read my reply without keeping in mind the scenario it was written to address.

It was purely a discussion of what model Tesla should focus on if a recession hit so hard that they had to drop prices.

TN Mtn Man suggested they focus on dropping the price on the LR MY to get under the price limit to keep demand strong.

I replied that SR MY is a better way to do that because they will be Cell limited compared to max capacity of the plants they have built. If they are trying to spur demand because everything is in the dumps the SR MY is at a much lower price point than the LR MY.

What you think will happen if there isn't a recession strong enough to force price to drop is immaterial to the discussion I was having.

If you want to down vote someone try down voting the person that suggested that scenario instead of piling on me for replying to it. Or consider just replying to that scenario without down voting me for replying to it.

Either way is good as long as you don't reply with straw man arguments about the current situation when we were discussing a specific hypothetical scenario.
I didn’t notice that context, sorry.

If you’re talking US pricing, $42k still seems way too low even for severe recession. The current minimum price for a Model Y in America is $66k and yet they’re still sold out for 7-10 months. That’s for the LR variant, but still.

A $24k drop in price to maintain sales of everything they can produce would be massive, especially because that would have to come from the wait times dropping to like 1 month or less, which makes the value proposition more attractive at a given price point. I think a huge segment of potential customers are unwilling to purchase months in advance but if the wait times come down they will start to step in and place orders.

I agree that prioritization of SR instead of LR would be a better plan if demand plummets, because of the battery supply limitations next year. I just think if Tesla added the Y SR back on the menu it would be priced at least $50k even with a severe demand drop.
 
I didn’t notice that context, sorry.

If you’re talking US pricing, $42k still seems way too low even for severe recession. The current minimum price for a Model Y in America is $66k and yet they’re still sold out for 7-10 months. That’s for the LR variant, but still.

A $24k drop in price to maintain sales of everything they can produce would be massive.


A $24k drop in price was never discussed.

I was talking bout the lowest possible cost variant of the Model Y which is a SR variant. You are the only person in this thread that has some how decided to take $42,000 and apply it to a LR variant.

again we were talking purely about am ultra strong recession scenario that might never happen

but don't in any way suggest anyone here was talking about a LR MY at $42,000 list.

I agree that prioritization of SR instead of LR would be a better plan if demand plummets, because of the battery supply limitations next year. I just think if Tesla added the Y SR back on the menu it would be priced at least $50k even with a severe demand drop.

Don't you think that Austin made MY SR are already back on the menu and will continue to be made going forward?
 
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any reply of yours that quotes my post without quoting TN Mountain Man's post or specifying that you are discussing his scenario ends up on a later page without his post and affords someone else in the thread to read my post out of context and reply to your post out of context.

If you had quoted his post or responded to him I wouldn't have had any issue with the content of your post.
If you had responded to me but clearly mentioned that you didn't think his scenario would come to pass then you would have no reason to respond to my post.

If you had responded to me but clearly mentioned his scenario and then wanted to say my response to his scenario is wrong that would continue the conversation.

But your response seemed to be ignoring the scenario we were discussing and started a path that would look out of context on the next page.

Basically I don't care what opinion you post so long as you don't misrepresent mine.

I never said that the scenario was likely to happen in any time frame, but your reply does imply that I did.

I'm sorry you took offense at my quoting and responding to what you said. In my world, it's normal to quote a person and react without bringing in a potentially unlimited amount of prior posts. You disagree.

I may be in trouble for once again replying directly to you... if so... sorry.
 
Don't you think that Austin made MY SR are already back on the menu and will continue to be made going forward?
First the Austin Y is not a SR. (It is the AWD with more range, premium interior, and dual motors.) Second, it isn't on menu, as you can't order one. (If you have an order for a LR you might get offered an Austin AWD model.)
 
First the Austin Y is not a SR. (It is the AWD with more range, premium interior, and dual motors.) Second, it isn't on menu, as you can't order one. (If you have an order for a LR you might get offered an Austin AWD model.)

Even though they're not in the design studio, Tesla started selling the Model Y AWD to the public through the inventory page about a week ago: Giga Texas Model Y hits Tesla's existing inventory
 
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About Model S profit - Remember that only the cost of Lithium in the battery is probably several thousand dollars more now, than pre-refresh.

About price - I ordered a Model S Plaid here in Norway last week. But didnt get a price... It was 100 dollars deposit and they would come back with prices when they knew more about delivery.
A Model Y Performance cost 70k USD including winter tyres and EAP, in Norway as of today. Delivery in Q4, oct-des.
 
This isn't going to happen q2. See @mongo Response when I speculated on this:



Here is page 86 on teslas latest 10k:
View attachment 824045
You can see the breakout for domestic versus foreign income tax. Until domestic spikes up, there is nothing to offset with the US deferred taxes.
Ok, I know nothing about international taxes.

But I'm not pleased about how tech/internet companies avoid paying taxes in the countries where they actually make the profit so when this was a hot topic a few years back I read a lot of articles about how so many companies somehow makes all their profits in countries with the lowest taxes. Like all European profits ending up in Ireland or Luxembourg where almost none of the profit originates.

If I remember correctly one way to do this was transferring patents to their divisions in those countries and then having them charge their divisions in higher taxed countries for using those patents.

At the same time, or because of this, companies like Apple have a problem with most of their profits now being in foreign countries and they can't transfer those profits to the US easily/cheaply.

Thinking about this how is it possible that Tesla would allow a US tax deferments worth billions to expire worthless when they very likely prefer to have profits in the US. Shouldn't Tesla be able to move profits between countries by charging internally for patent use etc. Why would Tesla not internally charge every car not made in the US several thousand USD extra for using patents or whatever held by the US division. Thus being profitable in the US and able to use those deferments and having the profits in the US instead of wherever. Once the deferments are used up they could go back to placing profits where it's taxed the least again.

I'm pretty sure, actually I am sure, that Tesla has people that knows taxes better than me. But they probably don't have time to explain this to me so can anyone else tell me what's different in Teslas situation?

And yes, I see how pathetic I am wanting Tesla to do what I don't like other companies to do.
 
Botched would have been a car that nobody wanted. Far from it. People are waiting & paying upwards of $20k more from initial release units.

My ‘22 Plaid despite its delivery day tribulations is the best car I’ve ever owned 3 months into it. Everyone that has seen it, red with Stealth PPF, loves it. Back are the days of lookie loos, waves, thumbs up, nods, and what not. No one can deny it is a beast.

Could they have done a better job of the rollout and phase in of lights and tilt? Damn right. I waited 18 months having ordered the original vaporcar, Plaid+.

But it’s here now. And damn, she is fine.

View attachment 824161View attachment 824162View attachment 824163
View attachment 824160

Ha, great pics, although as someone who is just about to get his garage converted to a car port for his Tesla, and concerned about how wide they are, I panicked looking at how close the door is to the powerwalls there, thinking 'but jesus how can they ever even get out that door????".

Then I realised its left hand drive :D.
 
The key is 6:00 into that video. Only very recent cars (last ~2 years) can use the CCS adapter. You can check on screen under your car information to see if you have the correct hardware in your charger to allow for CCS charging.

So, for both my cars, it would be a no-go on CCS without a charging port overhaul.
In EU, for older cars like my 2017 MX, there's a small hardware mod that's done by the mobile technician to enable CCS, maybe it's the same in the US?
 
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