Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[WADan]

A

Electric cars are DOOMED

Electric cars are doomed if fast charger reliability doesn’t get better

If every driver has a horror story about charging, adoption is going to stall.

arstechnica.com

Here’s a crazy thought. How about when they write these stories they drive the most popular car/ brand on the market which has an effective charging network.

More accurate headline

ICE Vehicles are Doomed if Home Fueling Doesn’t get Better.

Are these people dumb or what? When there is demand, supply will catch up even if it takes time!

 

[Beltsbear]

I wouldn't lend my TSLA shares on a matter of principle, especially not right now in TSLA's trajectory.

Money is simply not that important!

I guess there are people that find this program attractive, but I don't. They really need to pay for the privilege of having my shares on standby. That alone is hugely valuable. Then the idea of being unprotected if the company (broker) goes bust is just nuts. These shares should be protected from the broker going out of business.

 

[Cosmacelf]

It completely depends on the asset being loaned and its borrow rate. They vary daily, and at the moment I don't have anything that's being borrowed. ARKK was paying like 10%+, I had some BROS which was paying over 25% APR, all calculated and paid daily.

Yeah, but I was wondering how much you actually made during that year. Like did it end up as a 3% return over a year, or 10%?

 

[Zero CO2]

I wouldn't lend my TSLA shares on a matter of principle, especially not right now in TSLA's trajectory.

Money is simply not that important!

bottom line .. no reason to enable the nefarious market manipulators for a few bucks ... those of long TSLA with significant shares should not participate out of principle ...

 

[BrownOuttaSpec]

Here is a nice article of how a gas station brand is embracing EVs:
How Sheetz Partnered With Tesla and Brought EV Charging to Rural America [Bloomberg]
-A summer road trip in an electric car, fueled by the convenience store chain that has aggressively moved into the charging market.

“We work very closely with Tesla to install Tesla-branded chargers at our locations,” says Walter. “We work hand in hand with Tesla. Our real estate department works with their real estate department. We have bi-weekly calls with them.”

 

[Zero CO2]

Here is a nice article of how a gas station brand is embracing EVs:
How Sheetz Partnered With Tesla and Brought EV Charging to Rural America [Bloomberg]
-A summer road trip in an electric car, fueled by the convenience store chain that has aggressively moved into the charging market.

“We work very closely with Tesla to install Tesla-branded chargers at our locations,” says Walter. “We work hand in hand with Tesla. Our real estate department works with their real estate department. We have bi-weekly calls with them.”

looks like a model similar to WAWA....in similar geography
As of October 2020, Wawa has over 900 locations across Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Washington, D.C., and Florida.
I have charged numerous times at both Sheetz and Wawa... excellent experience at both franchises ... the very busy Wawa located supercharger in Edison NJ does get ICEd quite a bit ...

and then there is Bucees for those in the great south

 

[OrthoSurg]

Here is a nice article of how a gas station brand is embracing EVs:
How Sheetz Partnered With Tesla and Brought EV Charging to Rural America [Bloomberg]
-A summer road trip in an electric car, fueled by the convenience store chain that has aggressively moved into the charging market.

“We work very closely with Tesla to install Tesla-branded chargers at our locations,” says Walter. “We work hand in hand with Tesla. Our real estate department works with their real estate department. We have bi-weekly calls with them.”

That’s an excellent business model actually to partner with Tesla and get superchargers installed near their stores, I have never spent so much money buying food and drinks at every supercharger location. The cost I had in gas has now been fully replaced by food.

 

[Singuy]

Luchao Port now has 7k Teslas waiting to be transported

 

[MD70]

Here is a nice article of how a gas station brand is embracing EVs:
How Sheetz Partnered With Tesla and Brought EV Charging to Rural America [Bloomberg]
-A summer road trip in an electric car, fueled by the convenience store chain that has aggressively moved into the charging market.

“We work very closely with Tesla to install Tesla-branded chargers at our locations,” says Walter. “We work hand in hand with Tesla. Our real estate department works with their real estate department. We have bi-weekly calls with them.”

Got to give credit to Dana this time, that was a fair article.

 

[brantse]

Yeah, but I was wondering how much you actually made during that year. Like did it end up as a 3% return over a year, or 10%?

My account is over 90% TSLA, so I made very little on the small amount of investments that were being borrowed. It was usually around 1% per month, of the value of what was being borrowed.

As far as risks go, I think that's as small as possible, and essentially nothing. The same risk would apply to having any financial assets being held by another organization.

Regarding selecting what assets are available to loan, no with TD Ameritrade, it is all or nothing. If you agree to be in the program, you are giving them permission to loan anything.

 

[Featsbeyond50]

That’s an excellent business model actually to partner with Tesla and get superchargers installed near their stores, I have never spent so much money buying food and drinks at every supercharger location. The cost I had in gas has now been fully replaced by food.

I have a hard time seeing how these businesses will survive. Businesses that make their money from people stopping for gas and then popping in to buy some snacks or eggs or whatever. I've been an EV owner for over four years, now have two EVs, and I've still never charged outside the home. I see the need to stop and charge being at most one-tenth what it is to stop and fuel if you have an ICE. The model I see possibly working is more of an upscale, sit down environment like Starbucks, but I think those will only work in high volume areas.

I know I could be wrong on this. The people I work with unanimously think the Sheetz, Wawas and 7-Elevens of the world don't even need the gas pumps to be successful. The only time I go into those places is out of desperation.

 

[MadScientist23]

I have a hard time seeing how these businesses will survive. Businesses that make their money from people stopping for gas and then popping in to buy some snacks or eggs or whatever. I've been an EV owner for over four years, now have two EVs, and I've still never charged outside the home. I see the need to stop and charge being at most one-tenth what it is to stop and fuel if you have an ICE. The model I see possibly working is more of an upscale, sit down environment like Starbucks, but I think those will only work in high volume areas.

I know I could be wrong on this. The people I work with unanimously think the Sheetz, Wawas and 7-Elevens of the world don't even need the gas pumps to be successful. The only time I go into those places is out of desperation.

One thing to keep in mind is that many gas station owners/operators state that they make very little if any profit on the gas itself. All of their profit comes from sales inside. That being the case you can swap the gas pumps for electric pedestals and it's arguably more possible for profit as there's people that have to wait for the charging vs just pumping in a few minutes. There is a serious market there and it will get captured by someone. I know with charging at home this is cut down but many can't do this and no one can do it on any type of road trip. So the market is there.

 

[The Accountant]

Hmmmm seems yahoo EPS estimate for Q2 has disappeared. Does this happen every quarter a few days before earnings?

View attachment 828778

That's weird. I have never seen this happen.

Consensus off the Bloomberg terminal was $1.98 two weeks ago and then last week it dropped to $1.80 and now this week it's up to $1.85.
I sourced these numbers from Gary Black's Twitter posts. Consensus numbers exclude Bitcoin Impairment and Severance charges according to Gary.

 

[Ogre]

I have a hard time seeing how these businesses will survive. Businesses that make their money from people stopping for gas and then popping in to buy some snacks or eggs or whatever. I've been an EV owner for over four years, now have two EVs, and I've still never charged outside the home. I see the need to stop and charge being at most one-tenth what it is to stop and fuel if you have an ICE. The model I see possibly working is more of an upscale, sit down environment like Starbucks, but I think those will only work in high volume areas.

I know I could be wrong on this. The people I work with unanimously think the Sheetz, Wawas and 7-Elevens of the world don't even need the gas pumps to be successful. The only time I go into those places is out of desperation.

There will be a lot fewer charging stations than gas stations. A decent percentage of locations which are convenient to highway access and road tripping will be fine. The neighborhood end of the block gas stations will struggle. Tesla is unlikely to add charging stations in suburbs and residential areas with poor access to highways. People still will use C-Stores though.

 

[Knightshade]

I have a hard time seeing how these businesses will survive. Businesses that make their money from people stopping for gas and then popping in to buy some snacks or eggs or whatever. I've been an EV owner for over four years, now have two EVs, and I've still never charged outside the home.

Only about 2/3rds of Americans live in detached single family housing.... folks in apartments without garages or other easy home charging options will be far more dependent on public charging for at least the near/medium future (or longer depending how fast apartments adapt).

Add in that even though the people WITH home charging only need to stop during road trips, once EVs are a large % of all vehicles that'll still be significant use of public fast chargers as well, and I think there's still a decent business model to be had there.

 

[jkirkwood001]

I bet the percentage of engineers here would be astounding.

Engineers love Tesla because good engineers appreciate good engineering.

Quite a lot, maybe 1/3 of us, according to the Nov. 2021 survey:

 

[OrthoSurg]

I have a hard time seeing how these businesses will survive. Businesses that make their money from people stopping for gas and then popping in to buy some snacks or eggs or whatever. I've been an EV owner for over four years, now have two EVs, and I've still never charged outside the home. I see the need to stop and charge being at most one-tenth what it is to stop and fuel if you have an ICE. The model I see possibly working is more of an upscale, sit down environment like Starbucks, but I think those will only work in high volume areas.

I know I could be wrong on this. The people I work with unanimously think the Sheetz, Wawas and 7-Elevens of the world don't even need the gas pumps to be successful. The only time I go into those places is out of desperation.

The only time I go buy stuff there is when I am in the middle of nowhere during a bike ride and want to buy a Gatorade or when I supercharge on a road trip and buy snacks at the same time.

I know my brother goes to the local gas pump store to buy snacks to avoid the line at the local grocery store but now you can do that with Uber Eats groceries who charge a 25% fees to get it delivered for people who don’t mind their budget.

The only way I see those gas station stores to survive in the next decades is bringing EVs on the spot to get them buy snacks in which they make probably more margin than on selling gas. Not that it’s a good business model but a business model that is going to save them from bankruptcy.

 

[jkirkwood001]

There will be a lot fewer charging stations than gas stations. A decent percentage of locations which are convenient to highway access and road tripping will be fine. The neighborhood end of the block gas stations will struggle. Tesla is unlikely to add charging stations in suburbs and residential areas with poor access to highways. People still will use C-Stores though.

Yeah, especially considering maybe >90% of residences have an available wall plug, but <1% have a gas pump! Not the same demand.

Yes, @Knightshade , many apartments don't have an available wall plug, but then, compared to single-family dwellings, many fewer of people who live in buildings own a vehicle. And, as an example, in Ontario (Pop.: 15 M) adding EV chargers has been a building code requirement since 2018.

 

[ZachF]

looks like a model similar to WAWA....in similar geography
As of October 2020, Wawa has over 900 locations across Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Washington, D.C., and Florida.
I have charged numerous times at both Sheetz and Wawa... excellent experience at both franchises ... the very busy Wawa located supercharger in Edison NJ does get ICEd quite a bit ...

and then there is Bucees for those in the great southView attachment 828811
View attachment 828810

Pretty sure I read Tesla was partnering with Bucees to supply them with superchargers

 

[Mengy]

looks like a model similar to WAWA....in similar geography
As of October 2020, Wawa has over 900 locations across Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Washington, D.C., and Florida.
I have charged numerous times at both Sheetz and Wawa... excellent experience at both franchises

Yep, both Wawa and Sheetz have lots of superchargers here in the PA area / NE US. On our last 1600 mile road trip from PA to TN/NC nearly every supercharger we stopped at was either a Sheetz or a Wawa, save for a couple of locations.

The tide is turning.