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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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My Deep Thought of the day....

Now that Q2 is behind us and the earnings were even better than my pessimistic self expected, I'm feeling an extreme sense of exuberance. Those of us who model Tesla's financials in detail know what to expect for Q3 and Q4 of 2022, and we know the very high probability that TSLA is on the verge of exploding upwards to new All Time Highs within the next three to six months from today. The financial boom Tesla is about to experience (short of some huge unlikely catastrophe) is something we've not seen happen to Tesla in all of it's history yet. I know it's still "early" for Tesla as their growth will continue in abundance, but to me Q2 felt like a speed bump along the way, a very uncertain and fearful speed bump. For some reason.

It just feels really good now that Q2 is out of the way. Hopefully I'm not the only one feeling this. :cool:
Rational exuberance
 
The contractor who did my drywall tows a trailer everywhere. Most of his trips are less than 50-100 miles round trip. Most of the time he drives 10-20 miles, parks all day, and goes home. Sometimes he drives into town for supplies, that's another 20 miles.

Our electrician and the guy who did our concrete work has a similar routine. Sometimes they tow a trailer with gravel or gear, but usually it's just his normal gear. Even if they tow, it's not 100+ miles of towing, it's like 100 miles round trip.

Towing a skid steer or a mini excavator usually requires a 3/4 ton truck and I doubt any of the Lightnings can do that legally (Cybertruck maybe). The vast majority of ICE are half ton trucks and not legal to tow a mini ex. I've had to deal with it often enough to know that headache.

There is a good reason Ford chose the 230 mile range for the base Pro truck and a 180 mile range LFP truck would work quite well for similar reasons Sure, many will want more, but there is a big market for shorter range vehicles.


EDIT: It is likely the Cybertruck will be more compelling as a work truck due to price/ range/ performance. But it's hard to talk about/ compare 2 trucks which are not on the market yet.

Clearly not hard enough
 
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You write more responsible posts than irresponsible ones, but there have been enough of the latter that for the first time I'm going to call you out on this particularly inappropriate, annoying and downright rude post. ANY on this or elsewhere who dismiss with "Get over it" anything and everything that a corporation they follow does is thereby demonstrating himself or herself as a dangerous, blinders-on, march-in-lockstep-with-management FOOL who not only cannot be entrusted to manage his/her own money (you're of course welcome to do with your own funds what you will), but to others as well. And that describes you precisely regarding your time and input on this forum.

This is all the more worse because you obviously have some investment smarts - I'll never dismiss you by suggesting otherwise. Yet in all the thousands of posts you have put into here, never once can I remember you admitting to any investment mistake....which I will counsel is a mistake in itself and should be a red flag to others. Let me put that another way: anyone who has not been humbled by some of his investment decisions is a rank novice. Not skilled or unskilled, not lucky - just untempered by the fires of Wall Street.

That said and done with, on to the issue at hand.

Tesla's foray into cryptocurrencies has not, in my very considered opinion, been adequately justified by management. The cringingly best argument is that by doing so, the company was looking to endear itself to a new kind of investor.

That Tesla did so is an understandably divisive move, with both Tesla bulls and bears having strong opinions regarding it. For you to write "Get over it!" is so smarmy, so cringe-worthy on all levels that it brings suspicion everything else you ever did or may write here.

Yes: many of us believe that Tesla Inc. is an automobile manufacturer and an energy provider of manifold permutations, and likewise has no business - business in the strongest sense of the word - with cryptocurrencies on its balance sheet. And for those of us who have been shaking our heads since first learning of it, that 75% of that exposure now is gone is a relief and a very good first step. As one who is in that camp, Mr Musk having said (paraphrasing here) "they were not against buying more if they thought it would be useful" is tantamount to revealing that never again will they repeat this mistake.
Cryptos are just another treasury management tool. It's not unreasonable to allocate a portion of their cash and cash equivalents to a cash and cash equivalent product.

The main issue is the asymmetric accounting that requires negative MtM to be recognised but not any positive MtM - but that is solely an accounting entry. I'm glad Tesla didn't have to explain a large impairment this quarter, but even if they did, it has nothing to do with liquidity management. Had there been fair accounting treatment we would have seen large gains on the P&L in previous quarters.
 
I don't understand how this 1x inverted fund is supposed to work.

TSLA up 10% -> TSLQ down 10% ok....
TSLA up 50% -> TSLQ down 50% hmm
TSLA up 100% -> TSLQ down 100% wait wut? It's worth 0....
TSLA up 200% -> TSLQ down 200% WTFBBQ‽ it's worth negative money now?

I legit don't understand how this is supposed to work. Do people buying this ETF have to be accredited, margin using, level 3 options traders or do they just have this level of risk without being aware? I *almost* feel bad feel bad for these "investors"

I bought a few puts on it. What it seems to do is mirror the percentage gain each day - so if TSLA doubled in a day maybe it would go to zero.

For example, if TSLA increased 10% every day, it should decrease 10% every day. Which would mean an increasing large dollar value for each additional 10% increase in TSLA is matched by a corresponding decrease in absolute value loss for each incremental 10% decrease in TSLQ:

TSLA: 800 -> 880 -> 968 -> 1064.8 -> 1171 -> 1288
TSLQ: 40 -> 36 -> 32.8 -> 29.6 -> 26.5 -> 23.9

Trying to figure the implications for options, it seems like it would be harder to reach farther out put strikes on the down side than to reach corresponding TSLA calls on the upside because of this. Maybe the management fees balance that.

Leveraged ETF's, whether correlated or inverse, at a value of 1x, 2x, or 3x (or sometimes even higher!), are financially very complicated instruments. I don't pretend that I or anyone else really understands how they work but their track records for solvency are abysmal. Most of the time, whenever I've seen a stock have a sudden move, the leveraged ETF is wiped out and anyone who holds them loses 100% instantly. They are supposed to only be for day trading or so the story goes. If you hold one even overnight you're just gambling your "investment" goes to zero instantly.
How this works is pretty simple if you cut through all the noise.

Secret is: daily reset of the factor (mainly important for factors > 1 or < -1 as for example TSLA on LSEETF with a -3), management fees, sometimes even excluding pre/after market.

For -1 it is an easy immediate hedge by shorting TSLA behind the scenes and having management fees > fees for borrowing TSLA to short sell. As you hedge 1:1 you don't care about the market and collect fees.

For i.e. -3 the daily rebalance can save you even more: if TSLA does -10, +6 +5 then TSLA should be +0.07 ~ ±0. But the 3x leveraged did -30 +18 +18 which would still end up -2.5 thus if the stock oscillates sidewards it will eat up you money as well (proportional to the amplitude of the sideward swinging)..

Why do all this and not short the stock directly? For sometimes you have to follow a lot of rules/trading access/..
Or you sometimes just can't, because statues of the thing you have (company, fund, insurance,..) forbid shorting, options and other leveraged products.
But noone is stopping you from buying "just an ETF" 😁

In Europe those things get hyped as "factor certificates" .. some CAN explode and yield 1000x you money with compounding interest effects (most of >5 factory do this some times). But in the long run they ALL go to 0.
Or the issuer has to pay up, declares bankruptcy and you get nothing because you waived all your rights of compensation away when entering the contract.. 😁
"Issuer risk" this is called over here.

If it would not be possible for the issuer to make an easy Profit with high probability those things would not get set up in the market 😅

tl;dr: TSLQ should behave similar to an auto-rolling long put without the hassle to get access to options. Strongly avoid if that is not what you want 😁
 
You write more responsible posts than irresponsible ones, but there have been enough of the latter that for the first time I'm going to call you out on this particularly inappropriate, annoying and downright rude post. ANY on this or elsewhere who dismiss with "Get over it" anything and everything that a corporation they follow does is thereby demonstrating himself or herself as a dangerous, blinders-on, march-in-lockstep-with-management FOOL who not only cannot be entrusted to manage his/her own money (you're of course welcome to do with your own funds what you will), but to others as well. And that describes you precisely regarding your time and input on this forum.

This is all the more worse because you obviously have some investment smarts - I'll never dismiss you by suggesting otherwise. Yet in all the thousands of posts you have put into here, never once can I remember you admitting to any investment mistake....which I will counsel is a mistake in itself and should be a red flag to others. Let me put that another way: anyone who has not been humbled by some of his investment decisions is a rank novice. Not skilled or unskilled, not lucky - just untempered by the fires of Wall Street.

That said and done with, on to the issue at hand.

Tesla's foray into cryptocurrencies has not, in my very considered opinion, been adequately justified by management. The cringingly best argument is that by doing so, the company was looking to endear itself to a new kind of investor.

That Tesla did so is an understandably divisive move, with both Tesla bulls and bears having strong opinions regarding it. For you to write "Get over it!" is so smarmy, so cringe-worthy on all levels that it brings suspicion everything else you ever did or may write here.

Yes: many of us believe that Tesla Inc. is an automobile manufacturer and an energy provider of manifold permutations, and likewise has no business - business in the strongest sense of the word - with cryptocurrencies on its balance sheet. And for those of us who have been shaking our heads since first learning of it, that 75% of that exposure now is gone is a relief and a very good first step. As one who is in that camp, Mr Musk having said (paraphrasing here) "they were not against buying more if they thought it would be useful" is tantamount to revealing that never again will they repeat this mistake.

My wife bought one single stock in her life and that is a bunch of TSLA in her TFSA in 2014 and never looked back into her account. She is the greatest investor I know, have not committed any mistake, please don’t call her a rookie. ;)
 
Ford and GM say they are building "Battery Factories", but neither are actually building batteries. They are packaging batteries from other companies similar to the way Tesla packages Panasonics batteries in Nevada.

Analysts/ press are too stupid, disinterested, or have a vested interest in not differentiating the two processes.
Ok, I'll bite.
tl;dr; Pack and cell are unambiguous, battery can mean either.

A factory that assembles cells (or modules) into packs is indeed a battery factory.
A factory that only combines cells or modules into packs is not a cell factory. This is a clear misnomer.
A factory that manufactures cells can technically also be called a battery factory due to single cell batteries being a thing. However, if the cells are never used singularly as built, then this is really stretching the term.

First off, the world lost precision when single cells were deemed batteries, but there we are. It's understandable why this happened since a device's singular battery can be discrete cells (AAA for instance), and one typically says "This needs new batteries." Where it really needs "a new battery" or "it needs new cells". However, the ambiguity leads to this 'what type of factory' situation.

A battery is a collection of one or more cells.
AA, AAA, C, D, etc are single cell, as are coin cell batteries (like in hearing aids or Tesla fobs.
A 9 Volt battery is 6 cells in one package.
A 12 V standard car battery is also 6 cells (though a different chemistry).
18650, 2170, 4680 are cell sizes. If a product only uses one, that is a single cell battery.
Some LFP are sourced as multicell battery modules themselves, not discrete cells.
EVs use packs made of multiple cells, thus packs are only multicell batteries, not single cells.
 
Trust me, I'm still as grumpy as ever. Don't expect a change in grumpiness until we hit 1,200 minimum.
I sense an avatar change in the near future. (Although I thought the Year of the cat is long gone; thanks Al Stewart
).

Not to spoil your favorite (?) mood, but here is a nice and positive write up on Zacks About Tesla and the sock split.

 
Tesla has its own lane at the border crossing between Nuevo Leon and Texas.

It was an incentive awarded Tesla to use Nuevo Leon suppliers to feed Gigafactory Texas.

1658488788363.png
 
Ford and GM say they are building "Battery Factories", but neither are actually building batteries. They are packaging batteries from other companies similar to the way Tesla packages Panasonics batteries in Nevada.

Analysts/ press are too stupid, disinterested, or have a vested interest in not differentiating the two processes.
Well technically they are building batteries - batteries are the cells packaged together. What they aren't building are the cells (which is where most of the secret sauce is).

Edit: Mongo beat me to it and explained it well.
 
Yes, that cash sitting there is eroding. US dollar strength (ie, rate increases) can only go on for so long due to the amount of debt. So US cash is king right now. I don't know if it is 3, 6, 9, 12 months but the money printer has no choice but to go brrrr again. It is basic math when you have a fiat/debt based system. They always end this way...brrrrbrrrbrrr. It just a matter of when. The hour is getting late.

I agree. Elon and Master of Coin aren't even close to finished with BTC.
Moreover $18 billion invested in short term t bills at a 3% yield about $500 Million per year.
 
I got my first email this morning after signing up for the investors stock verification emails (I signed up for the basic email plan) titled "There is 24 hours left to participate in the Tesla Q2 2022 Earnings Q&A!". So it's cool to see it's working

When I did sign up using the "Plaid" option to link my account it asked for access to see how many chairs I had and how long I had owned them.
FYI: My trading account got flagged and I assume it was by linking the Tesla Investor Relations Plaid verification service earlier this week. :mad: So anyone else who used that tool might be in the same situation

"Due to unusual activity in your account(s), certain account features may be temporarily disabled until we have the opportunity to speak with you. Your security is very important to us."

The log in with the Plaid tool is your trading accounts username/password and I have since changed my password so it shouldn't have access any more.