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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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No news right now so...
How many times has tesla done a stock split? Just the one time for 5x? I was here for that, and if that was the only time then all of us that have been here since before then got the 5x boost thing...Like when the stock goes up $1 now it is like it going up $5 back then....
So after the 3x split every dollar rise will be like a $15 dollar rise was 3 years ago?
Imagine, a $20 daily rise will be a $300 rise in each of your shares back then. That's ephen crazy.
Don’t be silly ant. Same pizza just smaller pieces. Ask the experts. 😉 But yeah, I’ll take another x3 in share count even if it means I need to do long math by hand because the calculator spits out alien symbols.
 
Solar Roof or Solar PANELS?
Oh good point. Solar Panels, but thinking roof leak. Too late to change it now.
(Edit: I still plan to re-roof when prices ease some in construction and the air temp cools a bit. Then possibly consider new Tesla products and upgrade in '23. So they bought me time to shop, and for free after 3 yrs on a very used roof in the first place. I'm still happy, want it to rain now!!!)
 
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Do you consider owning dividend-paying stocks to be investing?

Because I'm not seeing a ton of difference between collecting small per-share income regularly that way versus doing so selling for example far OTM covered calls against owned shares, other than one requires a slightly more educated shareholder than the other to do "safely"
Phenomenologically, rather similar.
Structurally - there is zero similarity to me.
 
Tesla was at a very different place in the market. I don't think comparing the investment market in 2012 and 2022 is valid. The expectation was that EVs were always going to be a failure and there wasn't a market for them... Tesla proved that very wrong. Very little big money was available to fund in 2013/14/15/16+... now we have not only a ton from names like Amazon, but from investors looking for that 'next Tesla.' They can secondary a number of times and find plenty out there to fund the company as there is a proven winner in the field.

Rivian currently only has a few billion less cash on hand than Tesla does today. At ~15b they basically have the same cash as Tesla did after a $5b raise in Sept 2020. That is an enormous war chest and should fund everything they have at least through 2024. Which is a longer timeline than Tesla had at any point prior to 2020. Rivian is burning cash like it is going out of style and I don't think that is building a very good culture for longer term margins (I despise the Georgia factory plans)... but it gives them a long leash. If at any point in the next 18 months, they can get production ramped and show improvement in margins... they'll be able to sell the bill of goods that they are past the worst and pretty much any stock can handle some secondary offerings.

My back of the napkin math at IPO was that Rivian really needed at least 23b to get ramped and survive... so I think we are in the same realm there. I think they were/are about 5b short and that was prior to the Georgia plans, so I'm more in the 8b short range now. The 8b will have to come from either improvements in FCF in the near term( 🤣 ), external investment, or a secondary offering (likely a combo)... in this market that is willing to prop up Lucid to a 30b market cap, I don't see how they can't raise 8b if absolutely needed... I mean Nikola is looking at a ~1b offering and finding some traction. That doesn't make them a great investment... but surviving, I think the odds are growing they'll survive.
The problem is that they are tracking to have GM/F auto gross margins AT BEST and with no autonomy/software revenue, there's really no upside to the stock. The current valuation is already pricing in that they will survive and will at least make auto gm.
 
Damn, they aligned a dwarf toddler with yellow vest on the yellow stripe crossings with the dummy shade aligned with the crossover so that it blends in the scene. Those f*ckers tried everything possible to have low visibility

Obviously there is a minimum height that the system is going to recognize and Dan is demonstrating (in the worst possible way just like Edison did to Tesla in the current wars) that there is a minimum height for VRUs (Vulnerable Road Users) and nothing more.

I went out and tested this with my updated mannequin, different heights, different poses, different orientations and found that the minimum height is around 34" (this is NON-moving and I did NOT test moving)

Anything taller than 34" is 100% success
Anything shorter than 34" was not recognized

What was very interesting is that even when the mannequin was shorter, the system would see it for a short amount of time and then it would disappear as the car proceeded. You'd think confidence would go up as it got closer so this might be a bug with smaller VRUs.

Screenshot 2022-08-15 4.50.26 PM.png
 
Damn, they aligned a dwarf toddler with yellow vest on the yellow stripe crossings with the dummy shade aligned with the crossover so that it blends in the scene. Those f*ckers tried everything possible to have low visibility


what a fraud this guy is.

i wish i could better articulate my anger about this jerk, all the other twitter charlatans (that pudgy bad sweater organ kid that was obviously repeatedly beaten up in grade school, and so many others), and the fact that the twtr bulls validate and amplify these idiots by responding to them. have we learned nothing? really?

after many rants in 2018, i continuously try to remind myself to take the high road, ignore the noise….
but sometimes i can’t help but to admit, quite simply, i hope they all get sucked into a black hole. i will stop now before i get banned.
 
Obviously there is a minimum height that the system is going to recognize and Dan is demonstrating (in the worst possible way just like Edison did to Tesla in the current wars) that there is a minimum height for VRUs (Vulnerable Road Users) and nothing more.

I went out and tested this with my updated mannequin, different heights, different poses, different orientations and found that the minimum height is around 34" (this is NON-moving and I did NOT test moving)

Anything taller than 34" is 100% success
Anything shorter than 34" was not recognized

What was very interesting is that even when the mannequin was shorter, the system would see it for a short amount of time and then it would disappear as the car proceeded. You'd think confidence would go up as it got closer so this might be a bug with smaller VRUs.

View attachment 841360
Further probably has a looser threshold as the perceived height changes with distance and the calculated distance is less precise further out.
Car:
Is that a taller object further away or a shorter object closer? I'll play it safe and wait to decide.
I saw the same behavior in one of the raw test runs.
 
Obviously there is a minimum height that the system is going to recognize and Dan is demonstrating (in the worst possible way just like Edison did to Tesla in the current wars) that there is a minimum height for VRUs (Vulnerable Road Users) and nothing more.

I went out and tested this with my updated mannequin, different heights, different poses, different orientations and found that the minimum height is around 34" (this is NON-moving and I did NOT test moving)

Anything taller than 34" is 100% success
Anything shorter than 34" was not recognized

What was very interesting is that even when the mannequin was shorter, the system would see it for a short amount of time and then it would disappear as the car proceeded. You'd think confidence would go up as it got closer so this might be a bug with smaller VRUs.


Not sure if Tesla will ever bother adding stationary VRU under 34inch into the data set. I couldn't find any incident of children under 2 getting run over by the car on the road as most are hit while backing up.

But you know I feel like there are cones under 34 inches on the road. "For daytime and low-speed roadways, cones must be at least 18 inches in height. Cones intended for use in high-speed areas or at night must be at least 28 inches tall."
 
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Pennies and steam rollers. The point he was making, which is completely valid, is that sudden upward moves can destroy your gains when you've sold calls on your shares. Nobody is saying absolutely don't sell calls, but understand the risks. It's like selling lottery tickets. It works most of the time, but occasionally you end up having to pay out a winning ticket.
So it's better to sell outright enough shares to provide the next two years worth of income + taxes (@StealthP3D described strategy), rather than sell OTM calls on a much smaller number of shares month after month because just maybe there will be a big jump in the stock price one month, and then you'll have to sell a smaller number of shares for a price higher than it was trading a month ago when you would have sold perhaps 2 to 3 times more shares at a lower price. Makes perfect sense!
 
So it's better to sell outright enough shares to provide the next two years worth of income + taxes (@StealthP3D described strategy), rather than sell OTM calls on a much smaller number of shares month after month because just maybe there will be a big jump in the stock price one month, and then you'll have to sell a smaller number of shares for a price higher than it was trading a month ago when you would have sold perhaps 2 to 3 times more shares at a lower price. Makes perfect sense!
This is exactly the opposite of the point being made. You need to sell the rights to (via covered calls) many more shares than you would if you just sell them outright. Deltas and all that jazz aside, the share price can run away from you, leaving you with hypothetical losses over holding the shares and just selling a small number regularly.
 
Funny…. But in 40 years of driving I have never seen a 3 year old kid stand stationary in the road. I have had them move or run in front of me. But this whole absolutely stationary thing is also a parlor trick.
The o'Dowd 30.5" mannequin would be below the 3rd percentile if it were 24 months old, let alone 3 years.
 
The problem is that they are tracking to have GM/F auto gross margins AT BEST and with no autonomy/software revenue, there's really no upside to the stock. The current valuation is already pricing in that they will survive and will at least make auto gm.
I don’t debate that assessment… I don’t see them as an investment level company at this point. That wasn’t what I was saying.