Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[gabeincal]

Nope, sorry, not seeing it. Every time I see my Model S sitting in a parking lot, waiting for me to get in, I think it is the most beautiful car in the lot. I think the looks are timeless.

Especially in that beautiful color that’s now long gone from the options list…

 

[Artful Dodger]

Lots of car carriers filling up at Giga Berlin this Saturday:

That's awesome, thank for posting that. The 3rd Shift was supposed to start around this time in January. Presumably that takes Giga Berlin production to about 4,5K/wk. Any word on the 3rd shift?

Cheers!

 

[lakefiller]

Looks like the petitioners got what they wanted, but probably not in the way they wanted...

Gotta give it to the Biden admin, I think they made Tesla drop the prices.

I don't understand the S/X price drop though. They should have increased to make up for lost margins. Not as price sensitive as the 3/Y.

They aren't selling. They have a surplus

 

[Prunesquallor]

I’m excited for the “several different top hats”

(Stolen from @Artful Dodger)

 

[lakefiller]

The only thing that’s kinda right is aging models. I think the model S is a beautiful classy car but it and the x are definitely showing their styling age.

Just sayin.

You don't think interest rates and Elon are causing lower sales?

 

[EVNow]

Agreed, and directly relevant to us, Windows needeed IOS to avoid anti-trust litigation as Tesla will need some other domestic competition.

Do you mean Mac OS ? Because by the time iOS came out, Microsoft was already faltering.

 

[Ogre]

Noticed most of the used Model Y's LR on the Tesla website in the US have the acceleration boost and FSD.

Its interesting, feels like there is some kind of monopsony/ monopoly advantage here over other used car sellers, but I don’t think anything in the US remotely protects them (Not that I think they should start). Small chance there might be an issue in Europe? I don’t know European anti-trust laws but they tend to be stricter.

There are no laws against buying used cars, upgrading them, and reselling for a bigger profit.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

You don't think interest rates and Elon are causing lower sales?

Yah. For sure. I just zeroed in on the need for a refresh because I feel that is something that will be on teslas plate soon.

But yes. Elon is definitely damaging the brand. No easy answer for that one. As long as Elon and the board don’t feel that’s happening then it becomes one of those things that I can’t do anything about. My New Years resolution is to try and not focus on that kind of thing. But that’s just me.

Cheers.

 

[Mike Smith]

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Tesla lowering prices to a level where German auto makers can't compete in EVs.

Tesla under fire in Germany over union concerns on working hours, contracts

Tesla has come under fire from German union IG Metall and politicians over allegations by workers of unreasonable working hours and fears over speaking out at its Brandenburg plant, with some calling for inquiries into the carmaker.

www.reuters.com

 

[thesmokingman]

If Tesla is the only domestic auto company, does that make it more or less likely to be a victim of anti-trust law? That's the point. I think it's odd that anyone would desire that outcome, even Elon doesn't.

They've all had their chances to adopt. Instead what did these legacies do? They laughed at Tesla, made bets against it, colluded with big oil, made deals with administrations, the list of negatives is large. At the end of the day, they did not do what is best for the global mission, in fact some doing the opposite so if they fail there is no one to blame but themselves.

If they fail I won't lose any sleep at night. In fact in many ways they deserve to fail for their poor performance. When Tesla went the route of vertical integration on battery production, seat production, etc legacies literally laughed at them.

They are not going to have my sympathies now that they threw away years when they could have followed the path set by Tesla. Instead they ignored Tesla at their peril.

Also, FYI having huge pricing power is not anti-competitive either. Look at Amazon, they have huge pricing power, but they got in trouble because they forced their 3rd party sellers to not under-cut them, that is illegal. Thus this whole path that you're own is poor form imo.

Let's not also forget the BS legacies have put in place to prevent Tesla from conducting normal business, like using their dealership model to change laws to prevent direct sales. Sympathy... lmao.

Oh one more thing. Tesla has been open with their process and more importantly patents. Musk has stated repeatedly, patents are for losers. Come use our patents, etc etc. He's gone and helped when asked like meeting VW's board to help them change. <---But what did these clowns do? They fired the CEO trying to change them. You cannot make this *sugar* up!

 

[GOVA]

reuuters and unions a match made in hell

 

[bkp_duke]

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Tesla lowering prices to a level where German auto makers can't compete in EVs.

Tesla under fire in Germany over union concerns on working hours, contracts

Tesla has come under fire from German union IG Metall and politicians over allegations by workers of unreasonable working hours and fears over speaking out at its Brandenburg plant, with some calling for inquiries into the carmaker.

www.reuters.com

RotoReuters . . . such a surprise . . . /s

 

[Singuy]

Not if you can only buy one with EAP, or lock in a 12-mth subscription to FSD. Lots of ways to skin this cat. We don't even know what the battery sourcing rules will be. If necessary, Giga Nevada can just start making 2170-based SR+ packs again. I highly doubt Tesla suddenly becomes less agile than the Treasury Dept...

We should know more about the rules by April 1st. My best guess is the 'foreign-sourcing' rules don't kick in until the new CATL N.America plant is supplying LFP packs to Ford. It'll be fine.

I was hoping they would software lock the Y range for the IRA but they didn't. So I'm not sure if they are skinning the cat any other way.

 

[2daMoon]

My personal opinion is the needs are similar for each market. I would keep the designs the same, there is a lot cost savings in sharing the part volume across geography. This is one reason Tesla is the cost leader and GM will fail as a cost leader with 30+ models. Likely the volumes in each market will be very different as the smaller car will likely not sell as well in North America.

True enough, regarding the parts that might actually be shipped between factories. Parts like batteries, common hardware, seats, etc. all should be designed for use across as many models as possible. The Gen 3 battery pack could be common to all and shipped as needed.

The stamped parts and interior plastics will always be unique to each model, and, will be produced at the factory. Other parts would not gain an advantage in being kept identical to those made on other continents when there is no need to ship these parts across the ocean for Gen 3 models. Doing so would significantly cut into the margins of such a low-cost vehicle.

Many interior parts will be different from those used currently in the 3 and Y anyway, and, 3 and Y already have different parts from each other. Gen 3 would follow this pattern on a local factory basis.

Granted, China Gen 3 exports would have to support the vehicles across their distribution area. China's Gen3 could be limited to Asia/Australia, while Models 3 and Y would still go to the EU as needed. (they do not ship 3 and Y to the US/Americas, correct?)

Berlin will be shipping their Gen 3 across Europe and nearby regions as it ramps. Austin will be the source for distribution to the Americas. Only special cases with limited quantities are exported overseas from the US now.

It seems there would be little reason to go total cookie-cutter on Gen 3 when the region uniqueness could be an incentive for sales when buyers know they are getting a unique version of a model designed locally by them for them.

The very fact that "the volumes in each market will be very different" might be a good reason to create models that better target each market specifically.

 

[Dikkie Dik]

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Tesla lowering prices to a level where German auto makers can't compete in EVs.

Tesla under fire in Germany over union concerns on working hours, contracts

Tesla has come under fire from German union IG Metall and politicians over allegations by workers of unreasonable working hours and fears over speaking out at its Brandenburg plant, with some calling for inquiries into the carmaker.

www.reuters.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1614931527460069380

 

[thesmokingman]

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Tesla lowering prices to a level where German auto makers can't compete in EVs.

Tesla under fire in Germany over union concerns on working hours, contracts

Tesla has come under fire from German union IG Metall and politicians over allegations by workers of unreasonable working hours and fears over speaking out at its Brandenburg plant, with some calling for inquiries into the carmaker.

www.reuters.com

This is exactly why we have no sympathy for legacies.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Until the stories go around about them getting hacked and "recycling" their former owners....

Yeah teaching the domestic robots personal combat skills doesn't sound like a great idea to me

 

[Optimeer]

My interpretation of the Model 3 Highland (there can be only one):

The Model 3 and Model Y will use the same front and rear castings. All the attachments and sheet metal will be unique, but not the underpinnings.

Just my guess (vs. the one solid cast for the entire car, which it could still be).

I can not say if this is possible. I can imagine that the Model 3 Highland uses the same structural pack as the Model Y as shown below in the picture of a Munro teardown (with some adaptions for the seats etc.) and [Edit: the pack] is assembled on the same production line.

 

[jerry33]

I can not say if this is possible. I can imagine that the Model 3 Highland uses the same structural pack as the Model Y as shown below in the picture of a Munro teardown (with some adaptions for the seats etc.) and is assembled on the same production line.

View attachment 896448

That got me for a minute or so. I believe you mean to say the "pack" is assembled on the same line.

 

[Ogre]

I can not say if this is possible. I can imagine that the Model 3 Highland uses the same structural pack as the Model Y as shown below in the picture of a Munro teardown (with some adaptions for the seats etc.) and is assembled on the same production line.

View attachment 896448

There can be only one. LOL

Lots of mileage out of this Highlander reference.