Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[2daMoon]

All true, but why is noone talking about the windshieldwiper - the hole appeal to me dies with this thing on. Without it the lines are slick and all, but with any iteration I saw so far it was just bad - less bad now with the narrow one than the enormous one from the beginning but still just bad.

Am I alone with this view?

It is fine with me, as long as it is hidden behind the A-pillar to avoid blocking driver's view. The vertical orientation reduces drag when stowed. This design makes good sense. Any other method would have a greater impact on the coefficient of drag.

But, I'm a function over form person. Perhaps you are not. To me, everything about the CT is function taking precedence over form and this little bit is a nothing burger when comparing CT to every other pickup in production.

 

[replicant]

Cybertruck is an EU safety risk for fear of being overwhelmed by American exceptionalism.

Dangerous things Cybertruck imports could bring over:

1) New processed foods
2) Obesity
3) Loose pants

If not a safety risk on the road, they're still a risk of making our city streets unwalkable.

No one drove a truck as a daily driver about 5 years ago (made no sense) but I'm seeing more and more pickups here in France, including Ford 150 or equivalent, even in downtown Paris. They're so large they encroach on sidewalks and bike paths. When I can, I go talk to the driver and ask naive questions, and most often I hear the main motive to get one is "how badass they look". I guess the Cybertruck won't help and just like SUV have taken over the streets, trucks will do too because many people don't like being surrounded by much bigger vehicles and feel unsafe.

Here's what showed up recently on the highway a few kms from Paris:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

And look at this:

^ this one was found here Google Maps. Of course it's parked illegally (parking reserved to car sharing schemes), a few feet from my home and office. It's also extremely close to the private place of an ex French PM. It's a regular sighting, nowadays.

I snaped this RAM a few days ago in Bourg Saint Maurice (French Alps):

It's a taxi! Who actually needs a pickup truck as a cab ?! FFS.

Most people who own cars around me have a large SUV. Even if they live in suburbs close to Paris center, with 2 children, they choose a Peugeot 5008. My dad drives a RX 450h and 99.99% of the time, he's the only passenger with a "cabin" baggage. He's retired and don't have to drive for errands and shopping. It's so dumb.

 

[transpondster]

Good point, but then the price may go up at that point.


If nothing changes, that after March 1st, it should be:
IRA: $3,750
IRA Battery assembly of $10/KW (* 60 KW) $600
Total IRA: $4,350
Amount not covered: $4,185

Profit: $165

So just their normal car profit then. It almost works out too perfect, like they planned the lease for when the rules change after March 1st, with an additional profit kicker in the meantime!

IIRC CATL provides complete pack.

 

[JimS]

I'm suggesting the case was almost certainly funded by those out to harm Tesla

Very well put. This was the point I was trying to make the other day in a post deleted by one of the moderators. My apology for the way I presented it.

 

[UncaNed]

This is interesting and informative but...the major logical weaknesses of Munro in general and Cory, are first, that relentless US Midwestern market view. The rest of the world is not very visible to them. From pure manufacturing process I find them always informative. The second issue is that they do not actually understand technology well enough to understand the fundamental interplay between factory operation, raw materials and vehicle automation.

When accepting those limitations they are very informative about the eventual deleterious consequences of Lean, and the conflicting goals of OEM and Tier one and Tier two interests.

I am amazed that they do see enormous Tesla advantages while missing what may be the biggest ones.

"US Midwestern market view"???????????????????

 

[GhostSkater]

Good observation!

here´s my take on this: Tesla could potentially integrate TWO Battery packs, and they are testing this setup at this point.

However the "sexiness" of the product at this point is in severe danger.

Too many compromises are being made at this point, away from the sleek OG appearance.
As You can see the new design is much more "sunken in" with a less V-Shape top to bottom.
Smaller window line and much more "belly"= the lower waistline at the side coming from the bottom is much thicker and accentuated (twin packs anyone? changing the whole impression of the vehicle.
Hopefully they can bring back the OG character and not the "boat looks", but that might be mitigated by bigger wheels, a higher ride setting
and more outwards placed wheels.
View attachment 903897



View attachment 903898

The green one won't work past the wheel well, this leaves no room for motors, gearboxes, inverters and suspension, they take a big amount of space, just look on the Plaid the space it takes, and for the Quad motor version, it will be essentially two Plaid drivetrains front and rear

Even if they manage to make it smaller, still not enough room

But I agree with your take on the change of shape on the bottom, they might have to do that because they were so close to 500 miles of range, but the fact that 4680s have slight lower energy was enough to not to reach it, and widening a bit to fit a few more cells was the only way

 

[lascavarian]

It is fine with me, as long as it is hidden behind the A-pillar to avoid blocking driver's view, and the vertical orientation reduces drag when stowed.

This is not a viable solution IMO. Compromising the A pillar strength is not good. Glomming some aero shield (for the wiper) over the A pillar has undesirable drag implications as well as visibility issues.

Any traditional wiper of the size required for that large a slab of glass is going to be huge IMO.

Perhaps high pressure air could blow away droplets in specific vision critical areas and bag the wipers altogether. Cameras are going to need a dust removal system on Mars anyway so development should confirm a solution here.

 

[2daMoon]

This is not a viable solution IMO. Compromising the A pillar strength is not good. Glomming some aero shield (for the wiper) over the A pillar has undesirable drag implications as well as visibility issues.

Any traditional wiper of the size required for that large a slab of glass is going to be huge IMO.

Perhaps high pressure air could blow away droplets in specific vision critical areas and bag the wipers altogether. Cameras are going to need a dust removal system on Mars anyway so development should confirm a solution here.

Yeah, you are right. Tesla always comes up short when designing things.

Too bad they don't have more innovative thinkers in the design and engineering departments to get around these points you mention.

Pretty soon they should be able to scoop up some new talent from the legacy OEMs.

/s

 

[larmor]

If not a safety risk on the road, they're still a risk of making our city streets unwalkable.

No one drove a truck as a daily driver about 5 years ago (made no sense) but I'm seeing more and more pickups here in France, including Ford 150 or equivalent, even in downtown Paris. They're so large they encroach on sidewalks and bike paths. When I can, I go talk to the driver and ask naive questions, and most often I hear the main motive to get one is "how badass they look". I guess the Cybertruck won't help and just like SUV have taken over the streets, trucks will do too because many people don't like being surrounded by much bigger vehicles and feel unsafe.

Here's what showed up recently on the highway a few kms from Paris:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

And look at this:
View attachment 903902

^ this one was found here Google Maps. Of course it's parked illegally (parking reserved to car sharing schemes), a few feet from my home and office. It's also extremely close to the private place of an ex French PM. It's a regular sighting, nowadays.

Most people who own cars around me have a large SUV. Even if they live in suburbs close to Paris center, with 2 children, they choose a Peugeot 5008. My dad drives a RX 450h and 99.99% of the time, he's the only passenger with a "cabin" baggage. He's retired and don't have to drive for errands and shopping. It's so dumb.

And I'm guessing the French government is probably going to go for London type congestion charge-- tax for both traffic, size, and emissions.

 

[mongo]

This is not a viable solution IMO. Compromising the A pillar strength is not good. Glomming some aero shield (for the wiper) over the A pillar has undesirable drag implications as well as visibility issues.

Any traditional wiper of the size required for that large a slab of glass is going to be huge IMO.

Perhaps high pressure air could blow away droplets in specific vision critical areas and bag the wipers altogether. Cameras are going to need a dust removal system on Mars anyway so development should confirm a solution here.

How does putting a wiper in front of the A pillar compromise the A pillar? The motor and gear box need not be mounted in the pillar itself (offset arm).
There are still the magnetically linked wipers and laser patent applications out there also...

Better thread for topic:
Investor Engineering Discussions

 

[Nocturnal]

Who got Cybertruck FUD in my peanut butter TMC?

 

[SOULPEDL]

Someone polished the *sugar* out of this Cybertruck. That is mirror-like flatness on the sides, very pleased, was my biggest complaint. Look at how straight they line up too! Not necessarily the corners, but the reflection across panels. That's pretty flat.

Also, what's with the roof, someone got tired of polishing there?

 

[Etna]

And "project highland" honestly has very thin sourcing. None of us here know what it is or if it is either significant or real. Just tons of speculation.

This tweet was liked by Elon three days ago:

 

[2daMoon]

Someone polished the *sugar* out of this Cybertruck. That is mirror-like flatness on the sides, very pleased, was my biggest complaint. Look at how straight they line up too! Not necessarily the corners, but the reflection across panels. That's pretty flat.

Also, what's with the roof, someone got tired of polishing there?

View attachment 903917

Isn't that part of the roof glass?

 

[SOULPEDL]

Isn't that part of the roof glass?

Lol... glass cleaner needed?

 

[scaesare]

As a cyclist, I can attest to this.

And as a driver, I'll attest to many cyclists I encounter having a similar view.

(off topic, so I'll drop this here)

 

[Speedr117]

The green one won't work past the wheel well, this leaves no room for motors, gearboxes, inverters and suspension, they take a big amount of space, just look on the Plaid the space it takes, and for the Quad motor version, it will be essentially two Plaid drivetrains front and rear

Even if they manage to make it smaller, still not enough room

But I agree with your take on the change of shape on the bottom, they might have to do that because they were so close to 500 miles of range, but the fact that 4680s have slight lower energy was enough to not to reach it, and widening a bit to fit a few more cells was the only way

View attachment 903907

Agreed. What I think most people forget is how massive the interior space of the Cybertruck is. Elon is over 6 feet tall, and he had a TON of headroom when Jay Leno drove and he rode along. They can just make the floor higher (maybe not all of the second layer hight, but most of it), and it'll also serve as the "sitting up high" requirement as well.

 

[scaesare]

The Roadster prototype might have had double stack, but one problem is the extra strain all that weight puts on the tires.

The Roaster body would probably be a lightweight substance like Carbon-fibre or fiberglass.

If Tesla made longer (say 46x120) cells, that is a better than double-stack, but does require a specialised line.

Improving cell energy density is another obvious solution.

If they can get say 150-170 kWh in a vehicle with a total body weight no more than a Model S Plaid, with low drag and rolling resistance that might go close to getting 500-600 miles of range?

And I suspect the Roadster prototype doublestack pack was needed because cell technology had not yet advanced enough to allow for a single stack. They probably had a roadmap even back then that they knew would allow for a single-stack by the time mass production arrived...

 

[SOULPEDL]

Ok, I ran the toy simulator. Top part should be shiny glass. (Ignore the panel gaps).

 

[JRP3]

"You don't have a recession when you have 500,000 jobs and the lowest unemployment rate in more than 50 years," Yellen told ABC's Good Morning America program.

"What I see is a path in which inflation is declining significantly and the economy is remaining strong."

Yellen: 'You don't have a recession' when U.S. unemployment at 53-year low

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen on Monday said she saw a path for avoiding a U.S. recession, with inflation coming down significantly and the economy remaining strong, given the strength of the U.S. labor market. "You don't have a recession when you have 500,000 jobs...

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