Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[AndrewZ]

No. Because the federal funding will be so big and outrageous that Tesla with it's finely tuned supercharger building machine will be able to take the money and add these chargers at near zero cost, increasing the amount available to Tesla owners even with the other EV's factored in.

Without knowing how the Federal system will work, I think you might be underestimating the aptitude of people doing this.

This is how things were broken out In California's GFO-21-604 program where Tesla had recently been approved for charger funding

So you specify a requested amount, you specify how much you'll match, I think it might involve written narratives and presentations, and then everything is graded to determine who receives funding.

Elon was talking last year about adding CCS to Superchargers

 

[Artful Dodger]

Charge at Your Destination | Tesla on Youtube (2 hrs ago)

Destination Chargers now listed in the Tesla Nav screen, usable by Trip Planner:

 

[Featsbeyond50]

I think Tesla should get on it, drain the funding and wiping out competitors, and pull out once the money runs out. More money and more opportunities for non-Tesla owners to see the superiority of the SC network.

Make it a rinse and repeat strategy.

 

[Featsbeyond50]

Depends on what the Federal requirements are. If the Feds want credit card readers / P.O.S. at every charger head, and require that each charger have a build-in status display, that would be a significant expense for Tesla to retrofit, and ultimately a waste of time and resources.

If the Fed's will PAY for the extras, that's okay. Otherwise, Tesla doesn't need the hassle, and the Gov't fails to serve the interests of other EV owners. Oh, wait...

No cell phone? Can't start a session? Go to the 7-Eleven across the parking lot and buy a pay-as-you-go burner phone. Works only on the Tesla SuperCharger Network (TSN) via RFID. See, Applista's? TeslaFone! Done'n'dusted.

Yeah, that would change my mind. Everyone's got to have the Tesla App for it to be worth while.

 

[Speedr117]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624094730299617297

Superchargers in US

This was brought up when the bill came out originally. The opening up is only for NEW, Federally Funded chargers. And I'm pretty sure it specifically states that the charger must contain a CCS connector as a requirement (additional other types were ok though). I don't remember any POS or screen display requirements (that was a California requirement for their money).

To me, this makes sense for Tesla to implement, since there will always be some Tesla only Superchargers (and they can manage growth of those separately from the rest), and some combo ones.

 

[Skryll]

Woz was a top level engineer. It's not that Woz was lucky he knew Jobs. Woz and Jobs were lucky they knew each other.

maybe he was at the time. maybe he got overcompensated and got lazy? I dont know but he has shown pretty bad judgement in the past. Trade his Tesla for a Bolt ROFL talk about self depravation.

Having driven both, to me this came across as either him being a a sell out, or just demonstrating plain bad judgement.

 

[Skryll]

Yeah, if Tesla has to add card readers, touch screens, additional software, protocols -yechhh. Offer NACS (edit: and add Tesla app support) and call it a day.

Would it count to say buy a smaller near bankrupt EV maker, convert their deployed fleet and new products to NACS, to satisfy the rules? We need something to trigger landslide adoption.

 

[2daMoon]

Yeah, that would change my mind. Everyone's got to have the Tesla App for it to be worth while.

What if, for those who find it more convenient (don't want the app on the phone), Tesla provides the hand-held pager-sized device mentioned earlier for "free" where they set up their Tesla account on it. The cost could be covered the way cell phones used to be. Free, after some set number of charges, or with a rate reduction for charging after a certain target is reached. It could communicate with the chargers via Bluetooth or similar. No cellular connection needed.

As mentioned earlier, it could be made available at convenience stores with Tesla charging, requested online for free delivery, or even from a vending machine installed at any Supercharger location that isn't near to a business (present a valid credit card and PIN/Zipcode/etc., and the device can be vended, auto-configured for use).

Another method might simply be to have a multi-sided kiosk where 2 or more users can select their charger number, and provide billing method for a single use. (rather than having a POS display on every charger)

There should be a plethora of ways to skin this cat. So to speak.
(no actual harm to any cat intended)

 

[Bet TSLA]

maybe he was at the time. maybe he got overcompensated and got lazy? I dont know but he has shown pretty bad judgement in the past. Trade his Tesla for a Bolt ROFL talk about self depravation.

Having driven both, to me this came across as either him being a a sell out, or just demonstrating plain bad judgement.

When I test drove a Bolt, all I had to do was look under the hood to know it was an engineering joke. Driving such a vehicle should embarrass Woz, who was an incredible engineer. He was the guy from whom you got the impossible, and it wasn't even late.

 

[Ogre]

Yeah, if Tesla has to add card readers, touch screens, additional software, protocols -yechhh. Offer NACS (edit: and add Tesla app support) and call it a day.

It’s not just the extra cost to do this stuff either.

Many of these things add 2-3+ minutes to the experience. Imagine waiting in line for a Supercharger and the guy in front of you can’t make his credit card work, their cell phone signal is crap, or Electrify America’s app is down.

On second thought, this could plausibly be a reason for Elon to meet in Washington recently. If so, he looked comfortable with the outcome from the videos I saw. Could have been a deal of the century for the mission, followed by a mysterious increase to 80K for the Model Y rebate in the IRA. This all ties together nicely I think. With the added rebate revenue + a likely planned drop in price, pushes the "competition" even that much harder. It also levels the playing field on the EV experience. So whichever way it happens, I'm really glad there's a possible path so ALL BEVs can happily charge on long trips. Here's to that!

I think Musk would be comfortable with the outcome however it went. If the feds aren’t interested in paying Tesla to build chargers, that removes the obligation on their part to open up their network.

Also don’t think Tesla was overly worried about the rebate, they forced the government’s hand by calling their bluff. The fed had to make the choice of handing all the funds over to Tesla or helping out GM & Ford also. They chose the latter.

 

[Ogre]

What if, for those who find it more convenient (don't want the app on the phone), Tesla provides the hand-held pager-sized device mentioned earlier for "free" where they set up their Tesla account on it. The cost could be covered the way cell phones used to be. Free, after some set number of charges, or with a rate reduction for charging after a certain target is reached. It could communicate with the chargers via Bluetooth or similar. No cellular connection needed.

I would prefer Tesla sold adaptors to people and those adaptors had the brains inside them to do the plug-n-charge. So the non-Tesla owner’s experience would be almost identical to ours. Walk up, put the adaptor (which they bought from Tesla) onto their car, and charge. No app, they just get billed on their card the same as we do.

 

[Papafox]

Problem with my being unable to load images has been solved by TMC. The Thursday Daily TSLA Charts post is now active:

Papafox's Daily TSLA Trading Charts

TSLA chart above QQQ chart above (note: I include a NASDAQ chart too, as the QQQ chart got gorked by an after-hours spike) NASDAQ chart above Shorts were dismayed on Tuesday as the big push lower never happened. TSLA closed up nearly 4% on volume just below 200M. Shortie is no doubt...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[2daMoon]

I would prefer Tesla sold adaptors to people and those adaptors had the brains inside them to do the plug-n-charge. So the non-Tesla owner’s experience would be almost identical to ours. Walk up, put the adaptor (which they bought from Tesla) onto their car, and charge. No app, they just get billed on their card the same as we do.

Even better!

Scan the code on the adapter with the phone and it takes you to a site to step through the process to set up the account for that adapter. I love it!

The adapter could have monitoring software and be able to communicate conditions to address any issues with a vehicle that tries to damage itself or the charger.

Screw it if this doesn't work with the IRA bribes, it might just be a good enough idea to help the mission via other vehicle manufacturers having the ability to offer the Tesla charging network by including a Tesla adapter with every vehicle sold.

 

[Electroman]

Everyone should watch this short presentation from JB on the $2b offer. They bring up the head construction and electrical managers to speak and if this doesn't give you the good ole "America is great, this is what we should be striving for" I don't know what will.

Elon's social media approach has been artificial from day one. THIS is the way to bring ALL Americans together.

Do you know if JB gave any information on the cost of recycling and extracting minerals and how it compares to mining cost? Like is there a time frame where the recycling would be on par with mining, or better?

 

[Usain]

Charge at Your Destination | Tesla on Youtube (2 hrs ago)

Destination Chargers now listed in the Tesla Nav screen, usable by Trip Planner:

This concerns me a bit. When trip planner routes you to a Supercharger, you know with high certainty that you will be able to charger there. Destination chargers are prone to being busy, ICEd, or broken. The trip planner could leave you stranded at your destination. I wonder if Tesla has taken that into account.

Maybe it will leave you enough juice to get to a Supercharger if the destination charger is unusable?

 

[growler23]

It’s not just the extra cost to do this stuff either.

Many of these things add 2-3+ minutes to the experience. Imagine waiting in line for a Supercharger and the guy in front of you can’t make his credit card work, their cell phone signal is crap, or Electrify America’s app is down.



I think Musk would be comfortable with the outcome however it went. If the feds aren’t interested in paying Tesla to build chargers, that removes the obligation on their part to open up their network.

Also don’t think Tesla was overly worried about the rebate, they forced the government’s hand by calling their bluff. The fed had to make the choice of handing all the funds over to Tesla or helping out GM & Ford also. They chose the latter.

Exactly. We are often so used to the Supercharger network's existence and span that we forget how big an advantage it is that is is already built and operating (reliably).
Tesla is very much in the driver's seat with regard to federal money for any changes to the SCN or its operation. Tesla built it, they own it, it makes them money, they can keep building it out themselves now for as long as they like.
The feds will need to make them an offer they can't refuse in Tesla's (and their mission's) best interest for there to be movement on Tesla's side here. If there is not, Tesla can walk away and stay behind their massive moat just fine - for years to come, as any federally-funded stations are rolled out at the pace at which infrastructure is typically permitted, contracted, and built (slowly). Their lead is measured not just in stations, but in years. Quite a few in point of fact.

Still quite curious to see what will happen with the EA/Chargepoint/other third party networks out there. Will they end up being improved reliability-wise?

 

[ggies07]

Do you know if JB gives any information on the cost of recycling and extracting minerals and how it compares to mining cost? Like is there a time frame where the recycling would be get on par with mining, or better?

hmm...I don't recall. I'm not sure it should be compared in that way, just that when the market is saturated enough with EVs, we can quit mining all together and rely on recycling + 50-100 year batteries that Jeff Dahn wants out in the world.

 

[AndrewZ]

US Bureau of Labour Statistics modified their seasonal adjustment factors and revised up the recent CPI readings:

1. October revised up from 0.4% to 0.5%
2. November revised up from 0.1% to 0.2%
3. December revised up from -0.1% to 0.1%

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Exactly. We are often so used to the Supercharger network's existence and span that we forget how big an advantage it is that is is already built and operating (reliably).
Tesla is very much in the driver's seat with regard to federal money for any changes to the SCN or its operation. Tesla built it, they own it, it makes them money, they can keep building it out themselves now for as long as they like.
The feds will need to make them an offer they can't refuse in Tesla's (and their mission's) best interest for there to be movement on Tesla's side here. If there is not, Tesla can walk away and stay behind their massive moat just fine - for years to come, as any federally-funded stations are rolled out at the pace at which infrastructure is typically permitted, contracted, and built (slowly). Their lead is measured not just in stations, but in years. Quite a few in point of fact.

Still quite curious to see what will happen with the EA/Chargepoint/other third party networks out there. Will they end up being improved reliability-wise?

How long depends. It doesn't take that much to make a big difference.
For Maine, see my post here for the current state of CCS (not good) and where it could be for coverage and density by mid 2024 (better than Tesla):

RFP EM-008-2023: DC Fast Charging Stations – Phase 4

https://www.efficiencymaine.com/opportunities/rfp-em-008-2023/ Not directly Tesla-related, but as Mainers and regular PFAs know, access to Northern Maine is limited. Efficiency Maine has RFPs for the addition of chargers at significant locations in Downeast and Northern Maine . The locations...

teslamotorsclub.com

(It includes some guesses on routes where the plan is just for a number of chargers).
As an enabler for CCS EVs the intended deployments are huge.
Currently, the Tesla coverage is much better, but if things go to plan, the only area missing will be the west where Tesla has Bethel.
And Tesla doesn't have a service center here.

Here's Tesla: (The red dot at the top is in Canada, not Maine).

Now what happens if this repeats in states across the USA? How big is the moat than?

 

[Beltsbear]

maybe he was at the time. maybe he got overcompensated and got lazy? I dont know but he has shown pretty bad judgement in the past. Trade his Tesla for a Bolt ROFL talk about self depravation.

Having driven both, to me this came across as either him being a a sell out, or just demonstrating plain bad judgement.

Trade your Tesla in for a Bolt when you have the money for either is saying you hate Elon so much you will put your own family at risk. The crash safety difference between these two cars is astounding.