Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[jabloomf1230]

Proof of anti-semitism please. Because in the CNBC yesterday he denied this specific claim, and called it out and listed how his views have been pro-semitic.

I think you are watching too much MSM, should probably what interviews of him instead (i.e. go to the source).

You know that I usually agree with you, but any mention specifically of George Soros is absolutely an anti-Semitic dog whistle.

 

[EverettRuess]

Wow, missing the point entirely.

Public company C-suite executives have a fiduciary responsibility.

Many, like us, make MAJOR investments based on expectations of proper behavior . . . and when unhinged commentary damages our investment, AND THE MISSION, it's grounds for discussion here, and action by the BoD.

This is what can happen when CEO's behave irresponsibly:

https://insideevs.com/news/667701/estimated-tesla-order-backlog-april30-2023/[/UR

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If one checks TikTok, Elon has a huge amount of support in the comments and I couldn't even get through all of them in one reading. A lot of people are saying they will buy a Tesla because of his views, not in spite of them. He's winning new fans and supporters even if it's no longer the same demographic. It's not simply a 'loss' based on anecdotes or the baying of a vocal minority.

I would also expect women to be more sensitive to Elon's red-pilled BroCEO musings than men. I know one woman who refuses to buy a Tesla, so she sticks with her Bolt, suffers range anxiety, and a relies on a sub-par charging network which could brick her car. She wouldn't even admit her disdain for Elon until I pressed her a bit about it because I was trying to convince her to buy a Tesla Model 3, for all of the obvious reasons. Her friend who slammed Elon feels the same way.

I've never been herd-minded, so I prefer to stick to first principles over groupthink. I'm glad Elon is the same way, but he's actually making big decisions that don't simply follow convention where it isn't already 'best practices'. Revolutionaries are often disagreeable in many respects, like Apple co-founder Steve Jobs. Opinionated people with courage and tenacity are going to offend people, even if they try to sanitize their opinions for the masses.

Whilst celebrating his success after landing a probe on a comet, European Space Agency's Matt Taylor got raked over the coals simply for wearing a pin-up girl art shirt (on camera), which was created by a female artist friend. He made the mistake of tearfully apologizing, but Elon wouldn't do that. That's a key to his success. What people need to realize is that with the mob, there is no path to redemption. Hand-waving apologies aren't the way, and Elon knows this.

A lot of people simply believe the wildly biases media and repeat the noises their friends make, but Elon is so successful because he is not like that. He's a first-principles critical thinker, but most people aren't.

Another guy I know who dislikes Elon might be to the left of Ed Begley Jr. but he drives a Tesla anyway. Not everyone is offended by Elon, and some of us appreciate his honesty, candor, and humor. Many find his resistance to the 'woke mind virus' extremely refreshing, certainly a lone voice of dissent from a CEO.

Should a CEO not Tweet about politics or political views? Maybe, but that's not Elon, and Elon is a critical component to the existence and success of Tesla and SpaceX. Without Elon, neither would exist today as they do. Would people rather have someone like Mary Barra as Tesla's CEO?

It takes a massive amount of courage, tolerance for risk, money, etc. to completely revolutionize anything. For that we need people like Elon who are more ambitious than agreeable, with a huge amount of courage and tolerance for risk. Anyone with opinions and these personality traits is going to offend someone, but people were also offended by the idea of anesthesia for surgery and powered-flight. Every revolution has had its detractors, and it's the usual and expected noise against those who dare to change the world for the better.

The media is obviously biased in one direction. The FUD and hit pieces against Elon and Tesla are laughable. Either way, Tesla revolutionized EVs, SpaceX revolutionized space flight, Elon will Elon, and I am optimistic about the future.

TSLA is moon-bound.

I am that far left and still drive a Tesla. I am very offended by a lot of what Elon says but the planet is more important than his stupidity.

 

[madodel]

You act like the advertising-driven media plays zero role in creating "the insanity"

It's a constant fight against Tesla, and currently the media don't have a lot of ammo to work with. There are too few car fires, too few deaths, too few crashes, the software isn't dreadful, the charging network works, sales are consistently up, cars make profit, owners love their cars. I heard Dan "I am short TSLA" Nathan complain about the "corporate governance" yesterday... no actual details or facts to back it up. How are the media supposed to slow the company down and help out their advertisers? Giving crap like the Hummer EV glowing reviews isn't enough. Reviewing every other brand and pretend Tesla doesn't exist isn't enough. So they turn on the idiosyncratic genius boss, whose other companies happen to be doing fine as well, so there's really nothing to go on except criticise that he is a free speaker and speaks his mind...? That's all they got? Sign me up

I don't act like anything. I've stated before here that the long list of Tesla enemies have billions to spend to try to stop or limit Tesla. But that doesn't mean that it's ok for the company CEO to say offensive things because he thinks it's funny. I want Tesla to not just survive but to complete the mission. I understand that people here actually agree with many of the truly stupid things he says and that's their right. Again I just want him to grow up and Tesla to succeed. I don't have a political agenda here. Pissing off potential actual customers just for the sake of playing to his aspirational groupies and for political nonsense certainly strokes his ego but it hurts the company brand. The actual "insanity" is in fact created by Elon and that seems to be intentional. That just makes the attacks easier nd the lies more believable. I don't expect it to change because he is who he is, but denying reality isn't exactly a great plan. It's not just what he says so much as its that he comes off as an uncaring ass. That doesn't bother many here. But again it is hurting demand, and finally after a decade of "next year the competition is coming", it is finally starting to arrive. That's actually great for the mission, but the other companies can now get away with selling bad imitations just because customers are fed up with what he says.

 

[bkp_duke]

You know that I usually agree with you, but any mention specifically of George Soros is absolutely an anti-Semitic dog whistle.

So because Soros is Jewish, he's supposed to get a pass on . . . everything?

Soros hasn't always played nice in the sandbox with people.

 

[Krugerrand]

I tend to agree. Elon is a decent, smart hard working guy who feels his free speech is worth more than the financial consequences of him saying and doing whatever he wants. A true stand up guy who doesn’t pull punches or play games no matter what the consequences. I like him. And I hope the board takes action as fast as they can to fire his a$$ out of the company. Definitely not a guy I want running a company I am invested in. He would be much better suited to a private company.

Jmho.

It’s good to know that you value money above a decent, smart, hardworking guy, who feels free speech is <snip>. Interestingly that’s the guy who saved Tesla and made it what it is today.

 

[Spacep0d]

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I am that far left and still drive a Tesla. I am very offended by a lot of what Elon says but the planet is more important than his stupidity.

At least you understand what's at-stake, and you've chosen the best EV to own and drive and with the best charging network by a huge margin. I'm sure you've eaten Chick-Fil-A, right? Do you know about their CEO's views? How about the founder of Carl's Jr.? Wal-Mart? Barilla pasta?

The point is, if you go down the 'acceptable views' rabbit hole (as you perceive it), you'll find a lot of 'problematic' ideology. And, Elon is nothing like those aforementioned company CEOs. Of course a minority of people care about the political views of every company/CEO statement, but that's not most people. Elon is an unusual case, with unusually great results—not just for investors but for the world.

We all have to deal with this if we care about these things, and it is up to us to do cost/benefit calculus and act accordingly.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

It’s good to know that you value money above a decent, smart, hardworking guy, who feels free speech is <snip>. Interestingly that’s the guy who saved Tesla and made it what it is today.

Oh I think it’s great that he values free speech the way he does. But he doesn’t have the skill set to temper his aspirations with reality. I think he did at one time, but no longer. And that’s fine. But not in a public company. People get nervous investing in companies with loose cannon CEO’s.

To each his own. Jmho.

 

[2daMoon]

I don't act like anything. I've stated before here that the long list of Tesla enemies have billions to spend to try to stop or limit Tesla. But that doesn't mean that it's ok for the company CEO to say offensive things because he thinks it's funny. I want Tesla to not just survive but to complete the mission. I understand that people here actually agree with many of the truly stupid things he says and that's their right. Again I just want him to grow up and Tesla to succeed. I don't have a political agenda here. Pissing off potential actual customers just for the sake of playing to his aspirational groupies and for political nonsense certainly strokes his ego but it hurts the company brand. The actual "insanity" is in fact created by Elon and that seems to be intentional. That just makes the attacks easier nd the lies more believable. I don't expect it to change because he is who he is, but denying reality isn't exactly a great plan. It's not just what he says so much as its that he comes off as an uncaring ass. That doesn't bother many here. But again it is hurting demand, and finally after a decade of "next year the competition is coming", it is finally starting to arrive. That's actually great for the mission, but the other companies can now get away with selling bad imitations just because customers are fed up with what he says.

Most who share this view speak a lot about the "potential customers lost" due to these concerns.

None go into speculating further as to just how many lost sales there might be. How many do they imagine turning away from buying a Tesla over something Elon writes or says is a question that needs more attention in order to determine the scope of such a claim.

I expect this number in actuality is so small as to be completely insignificant to the success of Tesla. It is only significant to those who imagine the problem to be a bigger one than it actually is.

Consider for a moment how many of those who have purchased a Tesla that have never heard or read any of these questionable things from Elon at all? Of those, how many would just go, meh , and buy anyway because the value trumps any concern?

Keep going down the road with this to determine the actual impact and the conclusion begins to sound more like Chicken Little.

The sky isn't falling.

This doesn't deny that some of what Elon says will fall on tender ears (or eyeballs). It is just that the number of those people who would change their plans to buy a Tesla, in the grand scheme of things, are merely a tiny blip on the radar.

 

[advocate8]

I really wish the complaints about the Tesla "price drop," both here and in the media, would either stop completely, or at least acknowledge the truth. Stating it so bluntly shows somebody is either ill-informed or being purposely disingenuous. Even Elon pointed out one aspect of this simple truth yesterday:

-During the vehicle supply crunch over the last couple years, Tesla and just about every other vehicle seller raised prices. Enormously. Tesla raised theirs via the actual MSRP/list price, others via enormous dealer mark-ups in addition to some MSRP increases. Prices are basically back down to "normal" levels now...for both Tesla and most others.

The other aspect of the "truth" that this argument neglects is that:
- Tesla was NEVER selling all their cars at those inflated prices. Anybody with an earlier reservations was getting their car at their cheaper/earlier reserved price. That might be a small fraction, but I was one of those lucky ones -- reserved a 7-seat Model Y close to the initial/announced pricing....but with the delay in releasing the 7-seater and the "backlog" by the time I could confirm my order, I ended up getting my car for well below the then-current prices. Similarly, as prices have come down, many folks who reserved at higher prices might actually get the car at lower prices. I believe Tesla's "rules" for price changes between reservation and delivery always favor the customer.

And, a third aspect of the truth is that:
- Tesla is GROWING sales in an economic environment with higher interest rates and other macro-economic concerns. Comparing pricing to the preceding era of free-money and a vehicle supply crunch, while not noting all these other variables and pricing changes by other vehicle sellerse, is worse than apples/oranges.

Honestly, the Media (very much including smaller sites like Jalopnik) really play it both ways so that Tesla loses eitehr way, and many people (here and elsewhere) seem to buy into it: when prices are high, Tesla is only making "toys for the rich" and all the complaints that go along with that. When prices come back down, Tesla is clearly suffering from demand issues and the business will fail! Just look at how they've lost "EV Marketshare!" ((Which leads me to another rant about "EV Marketshare" being a false metric that the anti-Tesla crowd uses, while completely ignoring the fact that Tesla sales and VEHICLE Marketshare are rising...but I'll spare this group from that rant.))

There is endless talk of demand, but...What frequently seems to go unstated in these discussions about the price drops is supply. Tesla’s rapid and extraordinary expansion of production capacity has of course had a major effect on its pricing decisions, not just whatever is going on with demand. The company put itself in an enviable position to handle the ongoing shifts in both demand and supply by raising its prices so much during time demand was high and supply much lower.
It would be nice if demand increase matched supply increase and waiting lists remained long so margins could stay high, but that was never likely. The company’s pricing decisions, though, have likely been savvy moves.

 

[MP3Mike]

And I hope the board takes action as fast as they can to fire his a$$ out of the company. Definitely not a guy I want running a company I am invested in. He would be much better suited to a private company.

You can forget about that ever happening, look the shareholders just reelected Elon to the board last night. Yes, the majority of shareholders want Elon on the board and running things.

So, it sounds like you don't want to invest in Tesla, which is fine.

 

[Krugerrand]

Oh I think it’s great that he values free speech the way he does. But he doesn’t have the skill set to temper his aspirations with reality. I think he did at one time, but no longer. And that’s fine. But not in a public company. People get nervous investing in companies with loose cannon CEO’s.

To each his own. Jmho.

Nervous people should invest in GM then. Mary Barra isn’t a loose cannon, she’s just a liar. I’m sure that’ll turn out well for them.

 

[Ogre]

I just want to be crystal clear here. Musk did not say "I don't care about what shareholders think".

Musk (mis)quoted a very specific scene from Princess Bride and he said "Remember this scene? This is how I feel".

It's not that Inigo Montoya doesn't care about Money, Power, or "Everything He asks For". It's that the one thing he truly wants with all his heart, the other person cannot give him.

Very frustrated that all anyone pulled out of this interview is "I don't care". That is out-of-context as you can get. If you can't use the quote in its proper context... then quit repeating it because this whole conversation is about something someone didn't actually say.

 

[Mengy]

I tend to agree. Elon is a decent, smart hard working guy who feels his free speech is worth more than the financial consequences of him saying and doing whatever he wants. A true stand up guy who doesn’t pull punches or play games no matter what the consequences. I like him. And I hope the board takes action as fast as they can to fire his a$$ out of the company. Definitely not a guy I want running a company I am invested in. He would be much better suited to a private company.

You are hoping for the wrong solution to your problem. What you need to do is invest in a company which has a CEO you feel more comfortable with, a company other than Tesla. Because, "spoiler alert", Elon isn't going anywhere, so you can either divest from TSLA or come to terms with Elon as the CEO.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Looking at TSLA Volume, today is impressive. Maybe it dips end of day as usual, but it's like a bunch of people just heard about TSLA for the first time. Maybe they think he's making inroads on Wallstreet by the fact that he even did that CNBC interview, unedited by the way, camera rolling, no commercials, inside the Tesla Factory no less. He's calling the shots from what I see there.

CNBC has CEOs live everyday, it's the norm. Is Elon following the norm, or is CNBC kneeling to power, or both?

 

[enslaved robot]

You know that I usually agree with you, but any mention specifically of George Soros is absolutely an anti-Semitic dog whistle.

You mean it's a bad thing to criticize the predatory investor who forced the discontinuous and unstructured devaluation of the British pound which threw the country into a spiral of economic recessions leading directly to the rise of right wing populism and BREXIT? Soros is exactly the kind of rent seeking scum that cause the closing price of Tesla to match the max pain option price every Friday. Religion has nothing to do with it.

 

[ZeApelido]

In a sad irony, the upstanding, queue respecting Scandinavian @KarenRei was denied opportunity to ask a question because of rude American line cutters.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1658876760870486030

 

[Ogre]

Looking at TSLA Volume, today is impressive. Maybe it dips end of day as usual, but it's like a bunch of people just heard about TSLA for the first time. Maybe they think he's making inroads on Wallstreet by the fact that he even did that CNBC interview, unedited by the way, camera rolling, no commercials, inside the Tesla Factory no less. He's calling the shots from what I see there.

CNBC has CEOs live everyday, it's the norm. Is Elon following the norm, or is CNBC kneeling to power, or both?

I think @Singuy said yesterday if Musk says he's not stepping down as CEO we will have a rally.

Perhaps that's all it took.

I'm pretty frustrated that we're having a solid 4% Green Day on high volume and people are whining about a quote from a misquote of Musk that they don't seem to remotely understand.

 

[2daMoon]

I think @Singuy said yesterday if Musk says he's not stepping down as CEO we will have a rally.

Perhaps that's all it took.

I'm pretty frustrated that we're having a solid 4% Green Day on high volume and people are whining about a quote from a misquote of Musk that they don't seem to remotely understand.

But, but, but ...

feelings are more important than jumping through all the mental hoops necessary to understand context in order to grok.​

... aren't they?​

SLASH S

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

Okay, everyone had their chance to rage post about Elon. That must have been a relief, but it ends now.

There’s a reason mods moved this discussion (which is mainly about Twitter) to the Off Topic section. Every time someone was offended by one of Elon’s tweets, and that happens a lot in today’s society, they would come to vent here and subsequently the tweet and its political or societal (off topic) subject would get dissected. It would turn toxic really quickly. If you want to know why high quality posters left: there’s your reason.

Today we have again been reminded of where each side stands, as if that wasn’t clear enough yet.

It’s unlikely Elon will change his ways. Anyone who thinks he should, can send him a tweet. Complaining here isn’t going to help. But if you really feel the urge, join the unhappy crowd in the Off Topic section.

 

[phantasms]

In a sad irony, the upstanding, queue respecting Scandinavian @KarenRei was denied opportunity to ask a question because of rude American line cutters.

Sigh. I would have loved to meet her. No idea what she looks like but I'm guessing she wasn't the girl wearing the too small cowboy outfit, yet again.