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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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The article said:
High electricity costs have stopped some buyers from investing in an electric vehicle, even as petrol prices have come down.

So people understand, while electricity prices in the UK have risen significantly, the major impact for EV owners has been to make public charging extremely expensive. Despite high gasoline taxes, it's now more expensive to fuel an EV if you rely on paid public charging.

However, for people who charge at home, the UK's competitive electricity market with choice of time-of-use tariffs make off-peak EV charging _way_ cheaper than other regular use and still much cheaper than running a diesel or gasoline car.

TOU rates do raise household electricity prices at other times, but EVs can be a big part of the usage, especially if the household is heated with natural gas, as most are.

Plus, there is the solar PV phenomenon. Although PV is unsubsidized, the high electricity prices mean the UK is seeing a boom in residential (and commercial) solar PV, and increased use of home batteries. Current PV installation rates are heading towards an annualized rate of 1GW per year. For most locations rooftop PV does not require a permit and accredited installers can self-inspect, reducing barriers to installation. Solar installers are very busy.
That further helps some EV owners to charge at low cost, without raising other electricity costs.

Benefit-in-kind tax on EVs as company cars (which are relatively much more common in the UK than the USA) is still very low, and there is a salary sacrifice scheme where car leasing payments can be made before tax (although such schemes are actually not great deals for anybody but the leasing company).

UK electricity prices have fallen a little this spring as European natural gas prices have dropped.

The (Conservative) UK government remains committed to EV.
 
What exactly was said that has people concerned?

I am looking at the CME fed watch tool and the chances of a rate pause during next meeting went from 50% to 80%, and a 0.25% raise went from 40% down to 18%. The fed will do exactly what the market predicts so to me whatever that was said signaled the end of rate increases.

Sounded fairly dovish to me.

I think it was the GOP negotiators walking away from debt ceiling talks than anything.

Anything over two is growth
Then they can make 4 the next quarter and celebrate 100% QoQ growth!
 
For me it's the creep mode
Or not realizing it's in Drive still. Tricky stuff, and main reason IMO they made the car image spin into drive vs park for visual cue at least. In the beginning, they only highlighted the letter D, and even that was tiny. Hopefully this is filtered with FSD so I don't plow my house someday. So no cliffs, walls etc...
 
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Either charge by mile driven as with the gasoline tax or charge everyone the same annual tax and drop the gas tax. But this is a deliberate assault on EVs to negate the incentives pandering to the auto mafia.
Not just Texas. I just received this from the Tesla Owners of Pennsylvania:


PA State House considering EV Fees
We have been following various legislative proposals being considered regarding a tax on electric and hybrid vehicles. The state is looking for ways to recoup the declining revenues from the current fuel tax.

As an electric vehicle proponent, the club recognizes that EV's should pay some type of fee for road use. We don't think that too many folks would disagree with that. The question is how to implement a tax that is fair to all road users.
As opposed to a flat fee, we believe that a per mile charge makes sense. This information can be captured during the annual inspection process. It doesn't place an unfair burden on folks who drive fewer miles and reflects the increased road usage of cars that travel more miles.
One proposal currently being discussed would tax plug-in hybrids at $0.025/mile and EV's at $0.031/mile. This is almost 30% more than equivalent gas taxes. Instead, we would support an EV tax of $0.022/mile and a plug-in hybrid tax of $0.018/mile.
I am attaching a link so that you can send an email to the governor and your representatives suggesting the above criteria as fair for all road users. We are working with the Electrification Coalition on this project.

Remember, that one of the advantages of our club is that we can amplify our message by a thousand voices. In your email, be sure to mention that you are a member of the Tesla Owners Club of Pennsylvania. We want them to recognize our name on these issues.

I know folks are busy but this is something you need to take a few minutes to make happen. Here is the link:


Send an Action Email!!
Thanks you for being a club member and for helping us to make your ownership experience as amazing as our cars!!
Jon Shevelew
Founding Member​
 
Historically at least, leasing in most of NA and European countries only has been financially logical when there were tax justifications, including the popular company cars as employee benefit that is dominant in several countries, although less so in the US.

Oddly, perhaps, the US, in particular, has also had widely popular leasing for less creditworthy customers. For those captive finance companies and others have long offered leases that often use higher 'capitalized cost' frequently as much as 125% of MSRP, coupled with high 'money factor' (i.e. interest rate usually driven on rule of 78's) and restrictive use terms sometimes coupled with forced place insurance. These are the purest form of ripoff, unintelligible to the vast majority of buyers, even some who are financially sophisticated. These tactics permit financing of 'under water' trade ins and very high F&I profits.

So, basically there are tow entirely different leasing types. One for those who can use lease payments as business expenses and those who are too gullible to know better. The twain do not usually meet.

Tesla does the business focussed kind.

To be sure there are variants. BMW Finance in the US has long offered 'single payment leases' that have very, very tight ricing because they actually finance only the residual value, but have the entirety recorded with typical terms of a two or there year lease. I have used those products myself several times. When tax rules such as MACRS happen, these buyers generally opt for year end cash purchases.

Tesla has thus far not had the capacity for such specialized techniques but they definitely should, because cruel design for tax management can and does generate very high quality lead returns plus high value initial sales. For Tesla the biggest challenge is to design such products in such a way that third parties assume residual risk and credit risk. There are specific ways to manage those issues in each market.

During the Shareholders meeting Elon responded to a shareholder question about insurance mentioning the State level insurance rules, and the inherent complexity that causes. Tesla has been learning very quickly, even including, for example, the arcane California restriction on use of driver monitoring.

Next, they need very quickly to learn all about tax driven leasing products. These have arcane elements, always arcane. The March 2023 update, FASB 2023-1 shows the reality. Look it up if you're prepared for severe boredom. Thus far Tesla has been quite conventional in it's approach. Now, when demand limits are appearing these products can make huge differences in key fleet, small business and entrepreneurial markets.

Tesla do need expertise, quickly. If they remain as is they'll repeat the same silly mistake advocated by a poorly informed retail investor who suggested ten year loans, already stupidly offered by Tesla in Spain. Tesla historically has not even scratched the surface in final products. Only in conventional US auto insurance are they beginning to understand. They very urgently need to understand how to create incentives that do not destroy shareholder value.

Finally, we can only hope that Ms. Yaccarino really understands 21st century marketing, specifically the deployment of very precise and accurate targeting of prospective buyers. That will enhance shareholder value and customer value. General advertising destroys shareholder value and gross margins but does win Advertising awards and generates exciting trips to beautiful places with beautiful people. Frankly, I think Elon understands that, as do several others. In the meantime he also understands shareholders, both institutional and retail. For those categories of investors it seems to have become time to offer 'advertising'. Entities such as Raytheon, General Dynamics, Boeing,et al understand their constituencies are politicians ho expect 'Advertising' so they do comply. TSLA needs to do the same, careful lacemnst so those constituencies will not feel so unhappy that they harm TSLA. For exactly that reason it probably is time to spend some money on those presently anti-TSLA entities that only need some incentive to be less obstructionistic.

All of this is part of TSLA growing up to be an even more major OEM. This is all very hard. Just as is manufacturing hard, so is this kind of marketing. In manufacturing everyone around thinks all the traditional OEMs are the experts; just as in space Boeing and so on are obviously the rocketry experts. The core reality is that Elon has led SpaceX and Tesla to great heights. The next moves, from Starlink to Cybertruck and other new vehicles, have come to need a vastly more refined approach to marketing. Very, very few have managed that successfully.

Here are three examples of masterful marketers: LVMH, Airstream (a division of Thor, not independent, but quite Tesla-like in many respects), Zara. Two of the three do advertise, but both LVMH and Zara understand the markets for their products and very carefully nurture their buyers. Not coincidently, all three of them are best known among their targeted buyers and not so much elsewhere. There are many other examples, but these three manage to maintain high margins in generally low margin categories (obviously, LVMH has numerous very exclusive and non-exclusive brands).

I did not include Apple, but only because that one is so well known that everyone seems to think they know how APPL managed to generate most all the profits from each of its categories. In fact from 2012 TSLA has emulated APPL by building a seemingly impenetrable ecosystem. TSLA has built Superchargers and comprehensive software integration. They have both done the hardest job, creating a durable ecosystem. None of my other samples have done quite that trick.

Still, Zara is more vertically integrated than is anyone else in the fickle women's fashion market and keep building in what seems to be an impossible market. Airstream has long had Airstream Parks, cultivates passionate owner loyalty and is nearly invisible to people outside their market, formidable for those who are. LVMH is a model of brand and product discipline, with ironclad adherence to their management process. Notably two of the three are dominated by a single decision making process.

The real message I'm trying to convey in this post is that there are no simplistic solutions. Those who scream ADVERTSE, build awareness, are well meaning but are not considering the fundamental importance of value vs price vs cost. Those are three different issues. Tesla does need to change prices tactically, every one of my examples does that. The best do it in a vastly different way than do auto dealers who compete with each other on nominal price while relying on deception F&I to generate profits margin on sales.
People need to educate themselves and take responsibility for their financial decisions. Leasing a depreciating asset is never a good idea. If you can't afford a new car, buy a used one for a fraction of the price. Simple. We can't all live in Malibu and none of us needs to have a new car every three years.

The auto industry knows the thinking of the average person.
In 1971 McDonald's comes out with the quarter pounder burger.
Not to be outdone, in 1980 A&W comes out with the one third pounder burger.

Screen Shot 2023-05-19 at 3.45.16 PM.png
 
Seems like
Well that's an unexpectedly nice end to the trading week!

Maybe I'll sleep well tonight for once...
If you were following the options this morning, the number of puts at 175 and especially 177.5 grew a lot so there was actual incentive for MM's to keep it above that number. Surprised it closed above 180 but if I remember correctly, what matters is what is closes at after hours so they'll likely easily push it back down to 179.99
 
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Seems like

If you were following the options this morning, the number of puts at 175 and especially 177.5 grow a lot so there was actual incentive for MM's to keep it above that number. Surprised it closed above 180 but if I remember correctly, what matters is what is closes at after hours so they'll likely easily push it back down to 179.99
1684526915721.png
 
The auto industry knows the thinking of the average person.
In 1971 McDonald's comes out with the quarter pounder burger.
Not to be outdone, in 1980 A&W comes out with the one third pounder burger.

View attachment 939268

Based on my one experience at an A&W it might have failed because their burgers suck. Good root beer though.
 
With so many different battery packs even in just Teslas, it is hard to keep track.. Would be nice if the charging characteristics would be shortly summarized for prospective buyers. Charging curve of new BYD pack for base Y from Berlin looks good:

 
Speaking of GM and people being overly optimistic. Apparently the top Silverado is going to have 450 miles (rated) range.

I get excited every time I hear GM‘s overly optimistic promises about the Silverado because it puts just a little more pressure on the Tesla to get Cybertruck pricing and specs better. I suspect by this time in 2025 we’ll see multiple decent electric trucks on the market in the $50k - $60k range.

EDIT: The Work/ fleet version of the Silverado is supposed to be $40k. No word on range for that.

Wow, I can't believe tesla wasted so much time and money for decades on their cars and batteries with r&d and production and factories. They should have just made a powerpoint presentation and that would have been good enough!
 
Don't speak too soon...timing of this is impeccable 🥴 🥴 🥴 🥴 🥴

View attachment 939194
Can someone post any article that gives the details around the China recall on 'regenerative braking' ?

Specifically the above article at the end claims that recall was because of 'sudden unintended acceleration', which I think is a total lie. I don't believe it is anything to do with SUI.