Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[GhostSkater]

I complained about Musk and his antics

I have to laugh every time I see the stuff Elon does labeled as this

Seems like a pre compiled answer sent out to NPCs to answer

"No, but what exactly he do?" "It's his antics"

You never get an specific answer

 

[mongo]

And how come the child labor proposition has zero in favor votes? Not even the nun voted for her own proposal?

It wasn't in the main proxy voting materials. As a late addition, only those at the meeting and of record/ with proxy rights could have voted on it.
auto transcript:

finally as you saw and investor advocates for social justice would like to raise a proposal from the floor. The proponents did not seek to have their proposal included in the proxy statement. The board recommends that our stockholders who are entitled to vote on this proposal vote against it.
As a reminder as is disclosed in a proxy statement I've been advised by the proxy holders that they intend to vote all all shares of stock over which they have discretionary Authority against this proposal. Only shareholders who are shareholders of record or have obtained a legal proxy made vote for this proposal after it is presented.

 

[Stretch2727]

How does this happen. Kind of unbelievable. Doesn't the party that proposed it at least vote for it?

 

[GhostSkater]

View attachment 940168

How does this happen. Kind of unbelievable. Doesn't the party that proposed it at least vote for it?

Post above

And I think the nun wasn't present?

 

[Ogre]

And how come the child labor proposition has zero in favor votes? Not even the nun voted for her own proposal?

Covered this a few pages back when they counted the votes they found “Nun” in favor.

I have to laugh every time I see the stuff Elon does labeled as this

Seems like a pre compiled answer sent out to NPCs to answer

"No, but what exactly he do?" "It's his antics"

You never get an specific answer

I know what you are getting at, but here specifically, it’s a dead end all around.

When people want to refer to things that they can’t talk about on this thread on this thread they sort of by nature have to make it more generic. “His antics” is a sort of generic for “I was complaining about **insert topic which can’t discuss on this thread without getting my post deleted** the other day…”.

So the answer to your question is very likely something that should be posted in the super-toxic thread over there.

 

[Prunesquallor]

TSLA up "only" 53.33% YTD compared to NVDA up 113.37% and META up 106%
clearly, Elon is not working hard enough, at least not as hard as Mark
also, i am afraid Tesla is not half as innovative as facebook/meta/whatever
Optimus, FSD are mere distractions to hide lagging demand for EVs
super innovative companies like RIVN, NKLA, LCID etc and stalwarts of ICE F,GM will soon overtake TSLA
time to sell all my TSLA and buy NKLA (unless it is delisted?)
Gordon was right, Burry was right and Chanos was right
even Einhorn and i forgot the guy who ran a little fund shorting TSLA (i hope he is still around-Mark something)
not financial advice
most definitely not financial advice

Last I heard of Mark-something, he was shorting TSLA at $110.

 

[hacer]

For those seeking insight into how Elon's public persona has or hasn't affected product demand, here a bit of data that, like all other data sets, can't really answer the question but may nevertheless provide some insight.

The latest shareholder vote results are out. They can be compared with the results from 2020, the last time Elon was up for reelection to the board of directors. For the votes I assume that Elon voted all of his shares in favor of himself, and those self-votes provide no insight into the public perception of him. This is reasonable because the number of abstained votes in each case was far less than the number of voting shares owned by Elon (2023 = 715022706 shares and 2020 = 38658670 shares) and the total votes cast demonstrably include all the shares owned by Elon.

In 2020, just 0.831% (less than 1 %) of non-Elon-owned shares were voted against him remaining on the board. This was after the 420 tweet in 2018 and resulting SEC fiasco. The for-Elon/against-Elon (excluding Elon's own vote) ratio was 75.8:1. The brokerage held stock who's owners couldn't bother to vote was 36.3% of the non-Elon owned shares.

In 2023, 5.05% of the non-Elon owned shares were voted against him remaining on the board. This was after the Twitter purchase and much additional Elon tweeting. The for-Elon/against-Elon (excluding Elon's own vote) ratio dropped about a factor of 6 to 12.7:1. The brokerage held stock who's owners couldn't bother to vote was 30.9% indicating a little over 5% of non-Elon owned shares that didn't care previously now cared enough to vote this time.

Now there are a lot of factors to muddy the waters including that TSLA shareholders are generally strongly pro-Elon, and those who totally lost faith likely sold their shares and wouldn't show up in these votes. Also the number of people voting is far different from the number of votes because the voting is of course share-ownership weighted. Many other factors make interpreting this data difficult.

My take away is that the change in perception of Elon has been net-negative and not been negligible.

 

[JRP3]

You never get an specific answer

We have an entire thread with very specific answers. We had 2 but one got locked.

 

[Tronguy]

I have to laugh every time I see the stuff Elon does labeled as this

Seems like a pre compiled answer sent out to NPCs to answer

"No, but what exactly he do?" "It's his antics"

You never get an specific answer

Actually..

First: The bit about the, "antics" wasn't mine. It was my relative's. Perception, perhaps, is all: And their perception is that Musk is an anti-social loon. They specifically asked me not to talk about it. Apparently because it makes them angry and we were having a nice dinner and get-together at the time.

Second: My personal perception isn't too far off of theirs. Yes, I know the Advertising Industry At Large Wants Their Money, they're not getting any from Musk, So Negativity R Them. And there's plenty of hit pieces out there.

Having said all that, there are some things that Musk tends to do that seem to fall outside of the pale. Not paying rent over at Twitter seems to be one. Firing people for, effectively, lese-majesty at SpaceX seems to be another.

Having worked for a company where there was some of that in the C-suites, once upon a time, I tend to be a little sensitive towards that kind of behavior. In the mentioned company, the antics of the CEO at the time durn near sunk the company - it was a near thing. The company survived because the board fired the CEO, publicly, and a competent was put in his place. Problem with Tesla: It's really, really difficult to fire Musk. So, we're stuck with him.

 

[Ogre]

In 2020, just 0.831% (less than 1 %) of non-Elon-owned shares were voted against him remaining on the board.

When Tesla was within a spitting distance of it’s then ATH. Trailing 12 months SP performance was +1000%.

In 2023, 5.05% of the non-Elon owned shares were voted against him remaining on the board.

When TSLA is lingering at roughly HALF the ATH Set more than a year ago. Trailing 12 months performance -50%.

My take away is that the change in perception of Elon has been net-negative and not been negligible.

While it’s certainly possible. The 12 month trailing performance vastly overshadows any other factors here.

I mean… c’mon. All things considered it’s amazing that the vote went anywhere near this well for Musk

 

[Words of HABIT]

TSLA up "only" 53.33% YTD compared to NVDA up 113.37% and META up 106%
clearly, Elon is not working hard enough, at least not as hard as Mark
also, i am afraid Tesla is not half as innovative as facebook/meta/whatever
Optimus, FSD are mere distractions to hide lagging demand for EVs
super innovative companies like RIVN, NKLA, LCID etc and stalwarts of ICE F,GM will soon overtake TSLA
time to sell all my TSLA and buy NKLA (unless it is delisted?)
Gordon was right, Burry was right and Chanos was right
even Einhorn and i forgot the guy who ran a little fund shorting TSLA (i hope he is still around-Mark something)
not financial advice
most definitely not financial advice

Note at trading close today, TSLA is up 74.72% YTD.

 

[hacer]

When Tesla was within a spitting distance of it’s then ATH. Trailing 12 months SP performance was +1000%.

When TSLA is lingering at roughly HALF the ATH Set more than a year ago. Trailing 12 months performance -50%.

While it’s certainly possible. The 12 month trailing performance vastly overshadows any other factors here.

I mean… c’mon. All things considered it’s amazing that the vote went anywhere near this well for Musk

I understand that TSLA stock performance over the period is dominated by market macros. Maybe many of the shareholders voting aren't able to see that, but then maybe they can. As I said there are many factors mudding the waters.

 

[SPadival]

This is one of my biggest beef with Tesla IR the past few years. I guess they have more Twitter followers than me by 1000x so they get an invite? Probably is the right move for Tesla to have more exposure via social media but to me its really unfair that I'm lined up in an invisible line waiting to get an invisible ticket. When I see Tesla event tickets/invites advertised as a "lottery'' system but I keep see the same people over and over at these events I think hmmm sounds sus. Unless they have 100x more shares than you and I that we just don't know of? Unlikely.

I did get an invite last year. Martin Viecha says it’s a lottery. I am not sure it is because, as you said, same YouTubers & Tesla “influencers” (I block anyone who has that tag in their Twitter profile ) every year. Also, I remember tweeting at Martin for the invite - so I am not sure if it was because of the lottery or the request. I couldn't go eventually.

 

[GhostSkater]

Actually..

First: The bit about the, "antics" wasn't mine. It was my relative's. Perception, perhaps, is all: And their perception is that Musk is an anti-social loon. They specifically asked me not to talk about it. Apparently because it makes them angry and we were having a nice dinner and get-together at the time.

Second: My personal perception isn't too far off of theirs. Yes, I know the Advertising Industry At Large Wants Their Money, they're not getting any from Musk, So Negativity R Them. And there's plenty of hit pieces out there.

Having said all that, there are some things that Musk tends to do that seem to fall outside of the pale. Not paying rent over at Twitter seems to be one. Firing people for, effectively, lese-majesty at SpaceX seems to be another.

Having worked for a company where there was some of that in the C-suites, once upon a time, I tend to be a little sensitive towards that kind of behavior. In the mentioned company, the antics of the CEO at the time durn near sunk the company - it was a near thing. The company survived because the board fired the CEO, publicly, and a competent was put in his place. Problem with Tesla: It's really, really difficult to fire Musk. So, we're stuck with him.

My problem is that for Tesla people link the CEO actions to their purchase

But not for other companies

For example, would I ever buy something from Toyota or VW? Hell no, but because their lobbying effort agains EV and Diesel Gate respectively, stuff directly done by the company and the ones on top

Now, would I buy something from GM (well, actually no but let’s pretend I would lol) yes, Mary Bara could buy Instagram, post her nudes there which is completely agains my values (it isn’t, but again, just to make a point, not that I want Mary nudes, guess I’m digging myself into a hole here)

Another, I would love to get a Rivian while CT doesn’t arrive, it could get out that RJ hunts Whinie the Poo in his free time, which I’m against, but I would still get one without thinking twice

We see the same with Amazon, “Bezos is evil and torture his employees” and people say that while clicking checkout on their Amazon cart

The nice thing is is that this virtue signaling of not buying a Tesla got reduced a lot once the price cuts hit, guess everyone Good Samaritan stance has a price

 

[SPadival]

on a serious note:
watch TSLA hit $350to $400 or so before 2023 is over
not financial advice

In other news, TT007 is back to his old self again . This feels like a reunion

For those seeking insight into how Elon's public persona has or hasn't affected product demand, here a bit of data that, like all other data sets, can't really answer the question but may nevertheless provide some insight.

The latest shareholder vote results are out. They can be compared with the results from 2020, the last time Elon was up for reelection to the board of directors. For the votes I assume that Elon voted all of his shares in favor of himself, and those self-votes provide no insight into the public perception of him. This is reasonable because the number of abstained votes in each case was far less than the number of voting shares owned by Elon (2023 = 715022706 shares and 2020 = 38658670 shares) and the total votes cast demonstrably include all the shares owned by Elon.

In 2020, just 0.831% (less than 1 %) of non-Elon-owned shares were voted against him remaining on the board. This was after the 420 tweet in 2018 and resulting SEC fiasco. The for-Elon/against-Elon (excluding Elon's own vote) ratio was 75.8:1. The brokerage held stock who's owners couldn't bother to vote was 36.3% of the non-Elon owned shares.

In 2023, 5.05% of the non-Elon owned shares were voted against him remaining on the board. This was after the Twitter purchase and much additional Elon tweeting. The for-Elon/against-Elon (excluding Elon's own vote) ratio dropped about a factor of 6 to 12.7:1. The brokerage held stock who's owners couldn't bother to vote was 30.9% indicating a little over 5% of non-Elon owned shares that didn't care previously now cared enough to vote this time.

Now there are a lot of factors to muddy the waters including that TSLA shareholders are generally strongly pro-Elon, and those who totally lost faith likely sold their shares and wouldn't show up in these votes. Also the number of people voting is far different from the number of votes because the voting is of course share-ownership weighted. Many other factors make interpreting this data difficult.

My take away is that the change in perception of Elon has been net-negative and not been negligible.

Yet, Elon is the most popular political figure in the USA. It's a pity the US constitution discriminates against people not born in the USA.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660484601335382016

 

[Cosmacelf]

ATM were not invented ten years ago though. And from 2000 to2009 you had a sharp increase. The hidden variable here is the economic crisis.

ATM, Automated Teller Machines? They were commonly in use in the 1980s, certainly by the 1990s.

 

[mongo]

ATM, Automated Teller Machines? They were commonly in use in the 1980s, certainly by the 1990s.

Right, they weren't introduced (invented) 10 years ago, they were introduced (invented) before that, so they wouldn't be expected to be a major factor in a physical branch trend change around 2009.

(I had the same issue of unintendedly linking "weren't invented" as meaning "didn't exist")

 

[Ogre]

I understand that TSLA stock performance over the period is dominated by market macros. Maybe many of the shareholders voting aren't able to see that, but then maybe they can. As I said there are many factors mudding the waters.

Not “Muddy” at all. This is an investment security. Performance is almost always the #1 factor influencing shareholder voting. You didn’t even mention this in your post.

Your argument might be remotely interesting/ relevant if the shareholder vote had been contrary to performance, but it wasn’t.

 

[Mengy]

on a serious note:
watch TSLA hit $350to $400 or so before 2023 is over
not financial advice

I would love for TSLA to run that high by the end of 2023, but unless the PE Ratio runs up over the 100+ range I don't see how it can. And I don't see the PE going that high again, at least not until the Fed starts lowering rates which likely won't be until mid to late next year (2024).

 

[y_naught]

ATM were not invented ten years ago though. And from 2000 to2009 you had a sharp increase. The hidden variable here is the economic crisis.

I wasn’t ascribing the ATM as a cause, and branches did increase through 2008 before falling, but anyone looking should see total branches in the US declining since. If anything, ATMs probably suppressed branch network growth, which was still hugely accretive to banks‘ deposit gathering ability, by not needing to have as many staffed locations. But then, the Internet…