Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[EVNow]

For those worried about Tesla losing a moat, realize that it was losing it anyways. While WE know the CCS network sucked, the new EV buying public generally does not, meanwhile the CCS network was getting better everyday.

With this announcement, Tesla has immediately caused every CCS charger manufacturer and network operator to rethink whether they‘ll have any customers in five years.

So rather than face an inevitable competition against CCS, Elon has kneecapped the network before it grew out of it “sucks” stage and made it very likely it will never grow up to be a viable competitor at all.

Tesla has more than enough innovative moats to take the place of the Supercharger network going forward.

This sounds like 3D chess

I think WS will not see this as a net positive for Tesla. Already CNBC is on the case talking to … who else but Fields and Johnson.

Would be interesting to see what analysts put out in their notes overnight / tomorrow.

 

[nativewolf]

Musk has always been super supportive and cordial to competitors.

Tesla is not deciding future winners here. They will cooperate with anyone. Tesla would do the same for GM—yes, even GM.

Say it aint so...

 

[nativewolf]

This sounds like 3D chess

I think WS will not see this as a net positive for Tesla. Already CNBC is on the case talking to … who else but Fields and Johnson.

Would be interesting to see what analysts put out in their notes overnight / tomorrow.

Fields is a good interview. Nothing but help for Tesla and obviously he's trying to turn Ford-e into a Tesla like entity.

 

[Krugerrand]

Settle down Ford fans. They’re a LONG way from building and ‘selling’ millions of EVs for a *gasp* profit. Right now a handful of Ford money losing EVs will be able to charge at Tesla SuperChargers in *looks at calendar* 7 months. I for one will not be holding my breath that long. Tesla could be bankrupt by then.

 

[SunCatcher]

What I'd like to know is; how much $ to date has Tesla spent on their worldwide supercharger network, including manufacture of equipment, transport to locations, and installation & upkeep? I'm guessing it's quite a lot. And does this kind of forward movement (inviting other entities to join the party) somehow give credit towards that investment, or contribute towards its payback?

I'm fully on board with the Tesla mission statement, but do believe in and expect fairness, as much as generosity.

 

[jkirkwood001]

Many believe it will eventually hurt Tesla car sales. As the charging network is typically in the top 3 of reasons to buy a Tesla.

I dunno. I wonder what deal was struck since this helps both parties. A lot.

If, eventually, Tesla is getting $1 K ( / year?) or more per competitor vehicle sold (using?) the network, well, it's win-win. The more that use it, the more Tesla gains, like with EV credits. I trust Zach to have inked a beneficial deal.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Super Chargers - A place where the rednecks hang with the geeks. There's some good here, Elon's style.
Looking forward to some Lightning vs CyberTruck challenges. Charge 'em up folks! Bring a rope.

 

[MP3Mike]

For those worried about Tesla losing a moat, realize that it was losing it anyways. While WE know the CCS network sucked, the new EV buying public generally does not, meanwhile the CCS network was getting better everyday.

With this announcement, Tesla has immediately caused every CCS charger manufacturer and network operator to rethink whether they‘ll have any customers in five years.

Nah, they don't care. NEVI funding is only available for CCS Type 1 connectors, though you can have paired NACS connectors. (You can also have paired CHAdeMO connectors, for I think the first two years of NEVI funding.) So the charging networks have 5 years of NEVI funding they need to eat up, after that they probably don't really care.

And Out of Spec recently mentioned that the charging companies, hardware and operators, were wanting to add NACS connectors, but there was a hold up on getting cables. It sounded like that hold up was just about resolved, so we may see them start installing CCS/NACS chargers soon. (CHAdeMO is DEAD.)

 

[Tronguy]

I’ve not followed what’s happening on service front … but that was a big pain point sometime back.

Ofcourse, the other thing is potentially Tesla can run around local franchise laws by selling Tesla through some ford dealers - though I doubt this would happen.

FWIW: Back a few years when I bought FSD on a 2018 M3, the initial retrofits for the 3.0 computer were Fraught, short on parts, and took a long time.

Later, when the techies at the Service Centers figured out the fast way to do it, they'd send out mobile service to do the deed. Reports were that it could be done, I think, in less than an hour.

Practice makes perfect, I guess.

 

[navguy12]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661876161176010754

Elon did say he would try a little advertising…

 

[cab]

First NACS . . . next Tesla is selling FSD to Ford customers.

You laugh now, but I'm not joking. Did anyone else pick up in the conversation they had how Tesla had been providing some assistance to Ford with "whole car software updates"? Farley admitted that was insanely hard to do, and that Tesla had been providing some know-how.

Yep - Just another in the series of steps in their Master Plan 3 - Aka "He who controls the spice..."

 

[madodel]

Nah, they don't care. NEVI funding is only available for CCS Type 1 connectors, though you can have paired NACS connectors. (You can also have paired CHAdeMO connectors, for I think the first two years of NEVI funding.) So the charging networks have 5 years of NEVI funding they need to eat up, after that they probably don't really care.

And Out of Spec recently mentioned that the charging companies, hardware and operators, were wanting to add NACS connectors, but there was a hold up on getting cables. It sounded like that hold up was just about resolved, so we may see them start installing CCS/NACS chargers soon. (CHAdeMO is DEAD.)

Can I return my CHAdeMO adapter? Almost 8 years and never used it.

 

[Knightshade]

Many believe it will eventually hurt Tesla car sales. As the charging network is typically in the top 3 of reasons to buy a Tesla.

FWIW I already had a work friend text me when he saw this news saying it removed the last thing that was holding him back from buying an F-150 EV.


Oh, also, hadn't seen any mention of this, but...apparently OpenAI-funded company was secretly building a bot? And it's already in real world use?

OpenAI Beats Elon Musk to Market: AI Humanoid Robots Are Already Taking Your Jobs

Nurse by day and bartender by night, these AI-powered robots are giving a whole new meaning to multi-tasking, stepping out of science fiction and into the real world.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[MP3Mike]

Can I return my CHAdeMO adapter? Almost 8 years and never used it.

No, but you might be able to sell it for close to what you paid for it. (Some people still want them, especially Canadians with older Teslas that aren't yet CCS compatible.)

 

[jerry33]

I’ve not followed what’s happening on service front … but that was a big pain point sometime back.

Ofcourse, the other thing is potentially Tesla can run around local franchise laws by selling Tesla through some ford dealers - though I doubt this would happen.

Won’t work. If Tesla sells through even one dealer, then some states will be able to close Tesla sales and service centres.

 

[Ogre]

What I'd like to know is; how much $ to date has Tesla spent on their worldwide supercharger network, including manufacture of equipment, transport to locations, and installation & upkeep? I'm guessing it's quite a lot. And does this kind of forward movement (inviting other entities to join the party) somehow give credit towards that investment, or contribute towards its payback?

I'm fully on board with the Tesla mission statement, but do believe in and expect fairness, as much as generosity.

Tesla charges more for their charger network to non-Tesla owners.

Don’t know what the deal with Ford is or if Tesla is just getting a pass through, but I find it highly unlikely Tesla isn’t getting some kind of significant profit from this deal.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Nah, they don't care. NEVI funding is only available for CCS Type 1 connectors, though you can have paired NACS connectors. (You can also have paired CHAdeMO connectors, for I think the first two years of NEVI funding.) So the charging networks have 5 years of NEVI funding they need to eat up, after that they probably don't really care.

And Out of Spec recently mentioned that the charging companies, hardware and operators, were wanting to add NACS connectors, but there was a hold up on getting cables. It sounded like that hold up was just about resolved, so we may see them start installing CCS/NACS chargers soon. (CHAdeMO is DEAD.)

I can say that Efficiency Maine's requirements still include 1 50kW+ CHAdeMO on "top tier" sites. (To a Nissan Leaf driver, all these types of locations look the same as an old single charger.) But those top tier sites are 4 or more stalls, so still room for 3 or more NACS plugs.

 

[ktrivedi70]

On the principle that it's the pace of innovation that matters (not moats), don't think for a moment that the supercharger experience will be the same for a Ford owner as it for a Tesla owner. As we start seeing the maturation of the 4680 cell tech, my guess is that the Ford guys will get to see Teslas coming and going from a given charger at a much faster rate than them. And I bet a decent percentage of them will be irritated/educated by that. Meaning that their next car might,,,,,,,,

 

[y_naught]

I think it more likely Ford dealers will service Tesla cars in the future. That’s where Tesla needs to scale up fast.

What is all this ”service” you speak of?

 

[SOULPEDL]

What I'd like to know is; how much $ to date has Tesla spent on their worldwide supercharger network, including manufacture of equipment, transport to locations, and installation & upkeep?

Probably not as much as MacDonald's paid for all those giant arches. But ya, subsidized by the owners all the way back. It's got to be a huge bill hence the huge value and negotiating leverage. It's private, global infrastructure in an increasingly higher demand e-world. I'm actually surprised others took this long to join when we all saw their charger problem since first launch. All of them. It was all over YouTube.

I've been thinking... this puts all other BEV OEMs on notice, especially imports. Who's in the club? Who's out?