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Question from a noob.
What hardware FSD needs to perform? To gather data, HW3 or 4 with 8 cameras, etc.
But to make the car go? the same hardware? does it need cameras?
Could Tesla really license FSD to different cars as of now?
If you are asking if a gas car or ev with only a backup camera could use FSD software from tesla the answer is no.

You can't just drive the car blind with no cameras.

Any car tesla licensed the software to would have to have at least 1 forward facing camera, at least 4 side facing cameras, and 1 interior camera at a minimum just to be close to the performance of a Tesla with 8 cameras. And they would have to carefully decide on the quality and placement of those cameras.

In reality they would likely have to use 7 or 8 cameras in the same layout tesla has and Tesla would have to have the software modified for the layout for each new car added. It's not general purpose, you have to train the software to know the size and shape of the body it inhabits and it has to know or learn the camera layout for that body.

Yes tesla can do that for other car manufacturers, no it can't be done without cameras, no it can't be done without Tesla employees and software working with specific knowledge of the new car to be added.
 
Question from a noob.
What hardware FSD needs to perform? To gather data, HW3 or 4 with 8 cameras, etc.
But to make the car go? the same hardware? does it need cameras?
Could Tesla really license FSD to different cars as of now?
So.. I'll try and make this short.

The hardware that has the smarts to do FSD in Teslas is something truly new in the world: A built from first-principles pair of neural networking devices, working in tandem, below the dash. These were designed from scratch by Tesla. The computer in the Tesla is water-cooled and dissipates a fair amount of heat. Just so we're clear on this: A neural network, like the one inside your skull, works by combining weights of a large but variable number of inputs, then generating outputs that can go into more neural networks; feedback is often involved. What these things are not are digital computers, like the laptop, cell phone, or PC that you may be using. Like many things in engineering, neural networks can be very, very good at solving certain problems and not so good at solving other problems. The same can be said for digital computers: If you want to add and subtract numbers, digital computers are your friends and can do those functions at an astonishing rate (like, billions of times a second).

It's possible to take a neural network and make it add and subtract numbers; it's possible to take a digital computer and have it compute weights.

As it happens, the nearest thing to an honest-to-golly supercomputer that can be bought for less than a zillion dollars turns out to be graphics cards. The original purpose of these things was to provide computer game players realistic looking graphics. When Tesla first got started, they got themselves graphics card chips and did neural networking for images processing and such. They then realized this wasn't going to fly for the purposes of driving around the landscape, got themselves a ridiculously bright bunch of scientists and IC designers (one, notably, from Apple), and designed the first version of the current hardware.

I remember that the video chip company that Tesla abandoned was rather miffed since the chip company had designs on this whole self-driving computer business.. but their devices, no matter how speedy, or how well their marketing was working, was four or five times slower than what Tesla came up with, if memory serves.

Now, all that foo-fer-aw was back in 2018/2019. Tesla has continued to improve their devices. Other manufacturers of ICs for the trade has, by now I'm sure, put some basic neural networking functions on silicon. So, it's not like Tesla doesn't have competition these days. On the other hand: They have a lead.

So: A lot of image processing. A lot of neural networking with integrated digital computers. It's amazing that it's cheap enough to put all that in a car.

And then.. there's the software. Yes, there are the likes of Google, Apple, GM, VW, and lots of other folks trying to build self-driving cars. Tesla is still out in front of all of these. Remember: They're running some ridiculously complicated code on top of computers of their own design, the HW being optimized to run the SW at $DIETY's own speed.

So.. This is not Windows or iOS that one can develop a simple app upon and drop it into play and expect it to run everywhere. My guess is that, if Ford wanted to use Tesla's software, they'd likely have to use Tesla's hardware as well.

Don't know if you're aware: But those robots walking around in Tesla's development labs? They're running the same computer that's in a Model 3. Because the computer, with the right software, is that capable. Fun.
 
I think it's likely it'll be a one time payment up front and then subscription pricing. Something like $5,000 + $200/month. The monthly subscription pricing for fsd would be huge. By 2030 if auto sales are 100 million vehicles annually you can extrapolate profits against whatever you think is the percentage take-rate for other auto companies to license fsd.
It's the subscriptions, not the large cash purchases, that get people into trouble financially. $100 here, $200 there, pretty soon it ads up to a pile of money that's more than a person's income. I'm all for pay once, cry once.
 
Re: publishing disengagement events

There are many reasons I disengage: some "driver's choice" (left something at home, decide to detour for another errand, etc,), some "please don't kill me" (real safety concerns), and some miscellaneous no-fault reasons (I don't like the route NOA picked, I see a backup ahead, or know that with rush hour coming an unprotected left turn will delay me too long, or the lane I'm in stops for people making left turns, or whatever). Maybe these other reasons to disengage will just be noise, but raw data can be misleading, and I'm not sure that will be really helpful.
 
Will Tesla eventually buy Ford?
Seriously doubt it, don't see where Tesla gains much from a purchase of Ford's electric division. I think working together, like this recent announcement, is better for Tesla as it legitimizes it and leaves a positive impression in people's minds. After all, if Ford is using the the Supercharger network, it must be good, right?

Plus, the combination of the company names could create a difficulty as well. Who would buy BEV's from a company called TERD...?
 
Visually all four production Tesla cars look the same. Factually the Model Y under the skin is a totally different car than it was six years ago. Gigacasting, structural packs, different batteries and on, and on. Any person driving in a 2012 S85 and a 2023 S will not the anything in common except looks.

since so many people seem to think ‘updates’ equate to changing looks, it seems Tesla can only copy ICE and change the looks without changing the car./s I hope, i don’t want to think we’re that shallow. Of course changing the Model S from fake ICE to a smooth front seemed only cosmetic, but that reduced parts count from dozens to a dozen, counting fasteners.
This is not really a reply to the above post (which is spot on BTW), but more to get your insight.

As I am quite ignorant of the type(s) of charge connectors used in Brazil (and South America in general), do you think the Gen3 vehicles built at GigaMex and shipped to Brazil will be equipped with NACS and use adaptors for CCS etc.? And since there are very few superchargers in Brazil currently, would a build out done concurrently (or prior) to Gen3 rollout basically help make NASC the South American standard as well as (potentially) North American?

An inexpensive, quality BEV that comes with it's own fueling stations could be huge! Would love to hear your valued input on this as you're very knowledgeable about things down under...
 
<snip>
TL:DR; Tesla could totally license FSD hardware and software to 3rd parties.
So if FSD were to be licensed/sold to another manufacturer, I don't think they would do so until it's Level 4 or above. And if it is Level 4, who would assume the liability, Tesla or the company leasing it? This is kind of a big deal (or deal-breaker)...
 
Seriously doubt it, don't see where Tesla gains much from a purchase of Ford's electric division. I think working together, like this recent announcement, is better for Tesla as it legitimizes it and leaves a positive impression in people's minds. After all, if Ford is using the the Supercharger network, it must be good, right?

Plus, the combination of the company names could create a difficulty as well. Who would buy BEV's from a company called TERD...?

The same people who would buy an EV called etron? There was talk of Ford and VW partnering up on EVs not long ago. If VWoA and Electrify America adopt the NACS standard, I think all the manufacturers would follow suit in short order.
 
If you are asking if a gas car or ev with only a backup camera could use FSD software from tesla the answer is no.

You can't just drive the car blind with no cameras.

Any car tesla licensed the software to would have to have at least 1 forward facing camera, at least 4 side facing cameras, and 1 interior camera at a minimum just to be close to the performance of a Tesla with 8 cameras. And they would have to carefully decide on the quality and placement of those cameras.

In reality they would likely have to use 7 or 8 cameras in the same layout tesla has and Tesla would have to have the software modified for the layout for each new car added. It's not general purpose, you have to train the software to know the size and shape of the body it inhabits and it has to know or learn the camera layout for that body.

Yes tesla can do that for other car manufacturers, no it can't be done without cameras, no it can't be done without Tesla employees and software working with specific knowledge of the new car to be added.

The left repeater camera on my 2018 Model 3 was having issues, and the car wouldn't let me engage FSD. Autopilot and basic cruise control didn't work either. Because I forgot what manual driving was like, it was one of the few instances when I was pissed about the car.

FSD needs all camera to work, even the seemingly least important left/right side repeater cameras.
 

Was there ever any doubt this would get resolved? Another way MSM likes to instill fear into the masses. Oh well, hope this bodes well for Tuesday and we get past $200 :) Have a great weekend y'all!
 
The left repeater camera on my 2018 Model 3 was having issues, and the car wouldn't let me engage FSD. Autopilot and basic cruise control didn't work either. Because I forgot what manual driving was like, it was one of the few instances when I was pissed about the car.

FSD needs all camera to work, even the seemingly least important left/right side repeater cameras.
FSD needs all expected fields of vision to work and it will disable FSD if one field of vision is blocked or disabled.

But in cases like forward view you can use 1 or 2 or 3 or more cameras. The software can adjust to a differing amount of cameras in a design. Just so long as they are defined for that car.

So when I said "Any car tesla licensed the software to would have to have at least 1 forward facing camera, at least 4 side facing cameras, and 1 interior camera at a minimum just to be close to the performance of a Tesla with 8 cameras." I mean it would have to have that many cameras or more in the design, specified to the software, trained on that number of cameras, and so on.

I'm not talking about how it would behave if one stopped working.
 
This is not really a reply to the above post (which is spot on BTW), but more to get your insight.

As I am quite ignorant of the type(s) of charge connectors used in Brazil (and South America in general), do you think the Gen3 vehicles built at GigaMex and shipped to Brazil will be equipped with NACS and use adaptors for CCS etc.? And since there are very few superchargers in Brazil currently, would a build out done concurrently (or prior) to Gen3 rollout basically help make NASC the South American standard as well as (potentially) North American?

An inexpensive, quality BEV that comes with it's own fueling stations could be huge! Would love to hear your valued input on this as you're very knowledgeable about things down under...

Brazil is CCS2 (Europe one) and CHadeMo, Teslas here use a CCS2 to Tesla adapter to fast charge, because importing from Europe is way more expensive

There are no Superchargers here, and a few "fast chargers" and even less fast chargers, so I would guess they would ship with CCS2 since it's a port that will be used for Europe anyway. Or Tesla will try to force NACS here, which would be awesome since there is barely infrastructure in place

Plugshare doesn't have all chargers, but take a look filter by power to see the (dire) state. To make things better, one of the highway rest areas chain that has many units is removing it's chargers

Don't buy a Cybertruck here if you plan to roadtrip a lot lol

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To make it better, doing the same with openchargemap.org, 250 kW is the same as Plugshare

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Seriously doubt it, don't see where Tesla gains much from a purchase of Ford's electric division. I think working together, like this recent announcement, is better for Tesla as it legitimizes it and leaves a positive impression in people's minds. After all, if Ford is using the the Supercharger network, it must be good, right?

Plus, the combination of the company names could create a difficulty as well. Who would buy BEV's from a company called TERD...?
He meant Ford Blue or the Ice division!
 
  • Funny
Reactions: FireMedic
Just want to have my say on this. I get tired of hearing people talk about how Tesla models need to be refreshed in some way, that the design is old. Those people don’t seem to realize that the design is that way for efficiency first. Second is I see no reason why the design shape should not be a signature for the brand like with Porsche. Don’t hear anybody saying the 911 should look boxier.

Tesla has shown that it is willing to make exterior changes: new paint colors, different wheel designs; but even the refresh S and X have only changes that reduce drag etc. I love Tesla’s laser focus on making their cars better, not being distracted by consmetics as a selling gimmick For those who really want something that looks different from the 4 models available, there is the Cybertruck. THAT is different.

I hope that Ford’s announced direction of simplifying its models is a move away from the OEMs tendency to complicate them more. Dealers make money on being able to upsell customer with more and fancier gadgets: more complexity. If this simplification is what I hope it is, it is another example of the impact Tesla is having on the industry. A good trend IMO