Tesla Turns Off AEB In New Cars Produced Since July

[Swift]

I'll give you one example: Tesla got absolutely crucified in the media for not constantly nagging for hands on steering in the earlier version of Autopilot. However, the Infiniti Q50 not only does not monitor for hands, they don't even monitor for driver in the seat (this was something Tesla immediately updated to monitor when someone tried a similar stunt). No media even brought it up on the Inifiniti, nor was any criticism levied.

I missed this originally as it was added after I replied.

I think it is a great example but for different reasons. Infiniti doesn’t even get a second look on this because they’re not out there marketing the feature as the be all end all future of driving with massive media attention, big tweets, and reassurances that it’s in beta and the good stuff is still baking in the lab. Point is that Tesla might get a little heat for a minute, but the sheep buy into the spin and it’s all good again. It’s pretty impressive on some levels. Until you buy one and see there’s a lotta hype that hasn’t made it to the car yet...

 

[somnambule]

Maybe this analogy will help:

I need to buy a car seat for my new baby. I go to the store and see an array of car seats from different manufacturers, all of which meet federal safety standards. Some of the moderately priced seats even have a number of advanced safety features (translation AEB, etc).

I also see a really high-end car seat made by a company that is supposedly revolutionizing car seats with innovative design and advanced safety features. It’s more expensive but worth investing more for the level of safety they promote. The manufacturer is also known to have high margins that they are supposedly reinvesting In other projects (translation Model 3).

However, I find that this high-end model with the supposedly greater safety and corresponding higher cost actually has a number of safety issues and is missing features that the much less expensive models have.

I also find that both the high-end, high-safety seat and the less expensive options have had equally serious safety incidents.

So why am I paying more for a “better” car seat that markets “top safety features”?

Maybe the high-end manufacturer should have invested some of those significantly higher margins in ensuring the safety features actually worked instead of investing them elsewhere?

And to close out the point, the relatively less expensive car seat is made by a big manufacturer (translation Ford/GM) that doesn’t have the cool bubble around them. If they were to fail to deliver an advertised safety feature for their mainstream America car seat, they would be subject to far greater criticism than the tech/California darling that is Tesla.

Here's where your analogy breaks down with respect to the issues I pointed out with many mainstream manufacturers:

Some of the mainstream car seats also seem to have the propensity to completely fall apart (translation: stall on a highway), strangle your kid (translation: allow carbon monoxide into the vehicle) or go up in flames (translation: go up in flames). Would you prefer that over one that is temporarily missing some safety features?

Again, I want to be clear that I'm not criticizing the mainstream manufacturers. All cars today are complex. Bugs get through testing. My disagreement is with the claim that everyone else gets criticized but Tesla gets a pass. That simply isn't true.

 

[somnambule]

Anyway, there’s no way the other guys would get away with half the stuff Tesla is doing.

Except they do. As I mentioned above, the main difference between other brands and Tesla is the others don't tell you there's a problem until they have the fix and issue a recall (often only when pressed by the NHTSA to do so). IMO, that's worse than what Tesla did here by disabling a buggy feature once the issue was discovered without waiting for the fix to be ready.

 

[Swift]

Except they do. As I mentioned above, the main difference between other brands and Tesla is the others don't tell you there's a problem until they have the fix and issue a recall (often only when pressed by the NHTSA to do so). IMO, that's worse than what Tesla did here by disabling a buggy feature once the issue was discovered without waiting for the fix to be ready.

So how do explain Tesla selling me a car in late 2016 with AEB not there AT ALL. That’s after selling me on it during a test drive. Help me with that one. Would another manufacturer get away with that? Come on already.

 

[Swift]

Here's where your analogy breaks down with respect to the issues I pointed out with many mainstream manufacturers:

Some of the mainstream car seats also seem to have the propensity to completely fall apart (translation: stall on a highway), strangle your kid (translation: allow carbon monoxide into the vehicle) or go up in flames (translation: go up in flames). Would you prefer that over one that is temporarily missing some safety features?

I’ve covered this before and I’ve edited your example to reflect Tesla:

Those high-end car seats also seem to have the propensity to completely fall apart (translation: swerves across double yellow line into oncoming traffic, lusts for the undercarriage of trucks, brakes for no reason at highway speeds near underpasses), strangle your kid (translation: door spontaneously opens so your kid can fall out) or go up in flames (translation: I was going to post some of the Tesla on fire pics but you can google those). So yes we get all that to worry about plus “temporarily missing” some other safety features (or in my case with aeb where they misled me and I thought that feature was actually protecting my family until Consumer Reports let the world know it wasn’t even there, let alone disabled)

 

[McRat]

... TSLA market cap is because of the growth potential of the company...

It's related to supply and demand for the TSLA shares. Nothing else. While not unique historically, it's certainly bizarre. It is rare to see a stock fluctuate 25% without a price change in a quarter, especially when the stock movements do not correlate to company activity. 3 months ago, 376, today 374, range 308-385 closing. That's coming from somebody who is long on TSLA, so throw short theories out the window.

TSLA and Tesla cars are two wildly different things. If it were a hotel, TSLA would be the roulette table and the Models S/X/3 is the suites.

@Swift - Yes, a business associate bought a condo with his winnings from TSLA, but no, he knows absolutely nothing about what Tesla sells. He's one of those weekend warriors who rides a Harley in costume on weekends but rides a desk M-F. Without gov't funding, he'd be working at a warehouse.

Back to the point - It does not matter what Mercedes-Benz does or does not do. You aren't going to catch them or others removing safety equipment from their cars. So they are not even slightly relevant.

But is Tesla removing AEB significant? Nobody outside of the upper mgmt at Tesla knows. TSLA shares have no opinion either way; I think the news had the stock rise the next day?

 

[somnambule]

So how do explain Tesla selling me a car in late 2016 with AEB not there AT ALL. That’s after selling me on it during a test drive. Help me with that one. Would another manufacturer get away with that? Come on already.

Wasn't this pretty well known that AEB was unavailable on AP2 cars at the time? Wasn't the premise all along that it will be enabled in the future? Did the sales person tell you the car will come with AEB enabled right away?

Here's what Tesla's blog post announcing AP2 says:

Before activating the features enabled by the new hardware, we will further calibrate the system using millions of miles of real-world driving to ensure significant improvements to safety and convenience. While this is occurring, Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency braking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control. As these features are robustly validated we will enable them over the air, together with a rapidly expanding set of entirely new features. As always, our over-the-air software updates will keep customers at the forefront of technology and continue to make every Tesla, including those equipped with first-generation Autopilot and earlier cars, more capable over time.

 

[somnambule]

I’ve covered this before and I’ve edited your example to reflect Tesla:

Those high-end car seats also seem to have the propensity to completely fall apart (translation: swerves across double yellow line into oncoming traffic, lusts for the undercarriage of trucks, brakes for no reason at highway speeds near underpasses), strangle your kid (translation: door spontaneously opens so your kid can fall out) or go up in flames (translation: I was going to post some of the Tesla on fire pics but you can google those). So yes we get all that to worry about plus “temporarily missing” some other safety features (or in my case with aeb where they misled me and I thought that feature was actually protecting my family until Consumer Reports let the world know it wasn’t even there, let alone disabled)

If your claim is that Teslas have the same sorts of issues as other manufacturers and they all get treated the same, I have no issue with that. But that is not what you said before (and I disagreed with). Your claims that I disagree with so far have been:
1. Serious issues are acceptable if they happen on lower-priced vehicles
2. Tesla somehow gets a free pass and other manufacturers don't
I continue to disagree with these two points and your response does nothing to justify either of them.

 

[Kant.Ing]

Disabled since late July? No worries, no casualties on real flesh, still well within 6 months.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Not a new point. Circling back to the original point made that got the Tesla apologists fired up.

Your original point talked about price point (that less expensive cars should be expected to have more safety issues). Now you talking about how larger volume cars will have a higher chance of single fatal death occurring. That seems to be a different point to me.

Missing that point. Tesla is definitely treated differently. It’s clear as day. I talk to people who bought Tesla stock who barely know more than it’s a “cool company” and “Elon is brilliant.” It’s bizzare.

Anyway, there’s no way the other guys would get away with half the stuff Tesla is doing. But the bubble will burst...

Obviously people who have a stock position will have a different view (biased toward what they bought). I believe however is the original point was about the reaction of the public in general.

As for the last point, I think we can only agree to disagree. You have not raised any points that convinces me that the public reaction would be different in favor to Tesla.

 

[McRat]

Unless it involves causing another collision.

A collision by any other name would smell as sweet (to a body shop or lawyer).

 

[BigD0g]

Wasn't this pretty well known that AEB was unavailable on AP2 cars at the time? Wasn't the premise all along that it will be enabled in the future? Did the sales person tell you the car will come with AEB enabled right away?

Here's what Tesla's blog post announcing AP2 says:

Except they said the features would be turned on in Dec 2016 along with EAP. I don't even remember when we got full speed AEB, maybe June? I'm to lazy to go google and get the real answer, but I know it was no where near Dec 2016.

 

[Kant.Ing]

For the highest priority, the AEB engineer will have to work on enabling the life-threatening FM radio first, likely in 3 months or possibly by the end of the year. And I remember this year is 2016 AD, as our leader told us last time. So don't rush and be sure to make it right, still got a few months to go.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

What's really sad, to me, is how otherwise intelligent people can argue against their own best interests. In that vein, maybe we should make a list of features for Elon Musk that we feel are OK to remove after purchase. This should make Tesla's rabid defenders very happy, as they seem to relish having features removed from their vehicles. Let's help them in this endeavor.

 

[BigD0g]

For the highest priority, the AEB engineer will have to work on enabling the life-threatening FM radio first, likely in 3 months or possibly by the end of the year. And I remember this year is 2016 AD, as our leader told us last time. So don't rush and be sure to make it right, still got a few months to go.

3 months maybe, 6 months definitely. Bank on it!

 

[croman]

Wasn't this pretty well known that AEB was unavailable on AP2 cars at the time? Wasn't the premise all along that it will be enabled in the future? Did the sales person tell you the car will come with AEB enabled right away?

Here's what Tesla's blog post announcing AP2 says:

Blog post Oct 2016. Tesla promised AEB Dec 2016. Yes, my sales person said AEB would be in my car at delivery or within a week after. Even at delivery, I was told - it would be there by December 31, 2016 because that's what Elon was tweeting. Tesla only delivered AEB June 2017 for HW2 and only after Consumer Reports hammered them for lying to them as well as all HW2 purchasers in 2016. AEB was a critical feature for me and my wife and it was bitterly disappointing to find out that Tesla often lies to push cars out the door for EoQ. I now lack trust in Tesla to do the right thing or in their promises and I cannot recommend them to anyone who is seriously shopping because of those caveats. I love my car but I'm no longer in love with the company and they've done nothing to make amends for such deception (AP1 parity is still not here but Tesla fails to acknowledge or make amends for a spectacular failure in setting false expectations).

 

[Skotty]

Tesla is a mess. AEB, EAP, FSD. It either doesn’t work right, is incomplete, or in limbo.

That's called life, my friend. The risks of new, and why many companies just try to rest on their laurels.

 

[Kant.Ing]

That's the soul of Tesla electric cars, or a crucial part of a state-of-the-art EV ownership. We said these EVs have no soul like any ICE cars? They actually have, and they break down here and there unlike your most trustworthy friend.

 

[alehbaba]

So how do explain Tesla selling me a car in late 2016 with AEB not there AT ALL. That’s after selling me on it during a test drive. Help me with that one. Would another manufacturer get away with that? Come on already.

We all know tesla promises alot more then they deliver in these areas. It sells cars! It worked from what i see but is it ethical?
They really shouldnt advertise some option that they dont "turn on" when you buy the car. Or turn off after you have the car. Thats just wierd to me. But we all know how tesla does things. They change things in an instant from month to month and I know its called progress and developement but I have to agree with swift on this issue.

 

[alehbaba]

Blog post Oct 2016. Tesla promised AEB Dec 2016. Yes, my sales person said AEB would be in my car at delivery or within a week after. Even at delivery, I was told - it would be there by December 31, 2016 because that's what Elon was tweeting. Tesla only delivered AEB June 2017 for HW2 and only after Consumer Reports hammered them for lying to them as well as all HW2 purchasers in 2016. AEB was a critical feature for me and my wife and it was bitterly disappointing to find out that Tesla often lies to push cars out the door for EoQ. I now lack trust in Tesla to do the right thing or in their promises and I cannot recommend them to anyone who is seriously shopping because of those caveats. I love my car but I'm no longer in love with the company and they've done nothing to make amends for such deception (AP1 parity is still not here but Tesla fails to acknowledge or make amends for a spectacular failure in setting false expectations).

You are not alone. The whole ev car itself is cool and heads above any other full ev in usa on the market NOW. Its styling is bar non EV wise. However the company does do some shady things and it leaves a bad taste in many owners mouths. Many non owners dont really know about these "shady" issues...YET....I just hope porsche and other sportier companies ramp up the ev cars to give some real competition. I know many say but the whole charging infastructure is tesla and how can say porsche compete but i hope somehow they will and can. Not that others will be better but maybe serious competition will cause tesla to stop these "shady" tactics just to sell cars.

Porsche Mission E May Upset Tesla Model S Sales

if this doesnt give tesla a run for the $$ then i cant think of many that would.