Tesla Turns Off AEB In New Cars Produced Since July

[pjoseph]

In fact, the fact is they simply won't stop behaving in the manner until the courts get involved and slap some sense into them.

This is how bleeding edge technology evolves. Everything is a giant science experiment. Think Google (any product) or the first browser (~25 years ago). i detest lawyers in general. They are nothing but blood sucking leeches. This country needs less lawyers and more technologists.

Does Tesla over promise? Absolutely, over the top. Will that stop me from buying their cars? No way, but then i am a sucker for this propeller-head stuff.

How many other carmakers can actually do OTA updates?

i remember driving a Volvo XC90 last year and the AEB kicked in abruptly (failed the philosophy of least astonishment). The implementation was pathetic at best. But i also drove a more recent Volvo with EAP & Auto-steer (they have different nomenclature) and those worked flawlessly, even better than Tesla currently, i dare say.

 

[alcibiades]

I like lawyers.

But then again, I prefer kids not drink water with lead in it.

 

[oktane]

This is how bleeding edge technology evolves. Everything is a giant science experiment. Think Google (any product) or the first browser (~25 years ago). i detest lawyers in general. They are nothing but blood sucking leeches. This country needs less lawyers and more technologists.

Does Tesla over promise? Absolutely, over the top. Will that stop me from buying their cars? No way, but then i am a sucker for this propeller-head stuff.

How many other carmakers can actually do OTA updates?

i remember driving a Volvo XC90 last year and the AEB kicked in abruptly (failed the philosophy of least astonishment). The implementation was pathetic at best. But i also drove a more recent Volvo with EAP & Auto-steer (they have different nomenclature) and those worked flawlessly, even better than Tesla currently, i dare say.

With all due respect, I don't think lawyers are the problem in this scenario. It's the fraudulent advertising and engineering departments that have been tasked with something that is simply not possible given the hardware.

 

[Swift]

Thank God they didn't have to put in new headlights. That would made driving at night pretty rough for 6 weeks.

I think I saw new headlights are actually on the way next month. Just not for us. Man, the current headlights suck.

 

[Economite]

With all due respect, I don't think lawyers are the problem in this scenario. It's the fraudulent advertising and engineering departments that have been tasked with something that is simply not possible given the hardware.

And it's the acting as if the lazier-faire ("release it now and fix it later") approach to design, engineering and testing that works for web sites can also work for big, heavy, safety-impacting consumer products.

"Cutting Edge" isn't an excuse for not taking traditional care in protecting the safety of the people who buy your cars as well as the safety of everyone in the public who winds up sharing the road with those cars.

 

[xyeahtony]

Hardly "turning off," it just has to be trained like any other AP related feature. This is a new hardware set so it needs to be fully trained. When i got my AP2.0 car it didn't have AEB so #shrug.

 

[whitex]

yes but you'd only be singing that song for a few weeks. This isn't a feature that will never work. And in the mean time you can still appreciate what you have.

all fine and good to talk about it to play devils advocate, and sure post your story if you actually have a wreck that AEB could have avoided, but it's not going to be that important to the average Tesla owner over the weeks it takes.

I would assume you'd get years of use of AEB after it's enabled again.

You are now changing the argument. First you are saying that even if EAB never worked (as in a 2012 MS), you'd still be thrilled. Now you're saying a temporary outage is ok because eventually you'd get it. All your arguments are hypothetical of course - you really cannot tell how you'd feel about it until you pay lots of money for something, then it gets disabled or never works as promised in the first place. I am still waiting for my 691hp, Summon AP1 meeting me at the 90deg curve, and auto-wipers on AP2 car. You know, it doesn't have to be free, I'd settle if Tesla simply extended bumper to bumper warranty until they deliver 100% of what they promised.

 

[bhzmark]

Great for consumers would be not installing a new version of safety critical hardware (in place of a working version) until after the new version has been fully tested. That's what other manufacturers try to do.

sounds like you and other people like you would be better off with a Cadillac or "other manufacturer".

there will always be people who are uncomfortable with the uncertainties and changes of being on the bleeding edge of Technology. they would definitely be better off in a Cadillac.

 

[bhzmark]

Every other car I have purchased worked on day one. It never got better, but at least it worked as advertised.

sounds like you would be more comfortable in a Cadillac or a Toyota.

So Tesla could have waited to release the AP2.5 hardware for several more months to do more extensive validation. Which would have resulted in thousands of people buying cars with the older hardware during those few months.

exactly right. people who would be more comfortable in a Cadillac or Toyota will never understand this reasoning or at least not be comfortable with it. change causes them suffering and anxiety so better to minimize change for them even when it means continuing to sell older technology and delaying the newer technology until fully baked new model year.

 

[aceven24]

I was disappointed at first when I received one of the last HW1.0 cars a year ago, but am happier and happier as time goes by. Tesla rushed to release HW2.0 and HW2.5 too apparently.

I will probably only own this car 3 years or so and I would be pissed if one third of my ownership was dealing with this beta non-sense. Every other car I have purchased worked on day one. It never got better, but at least it worked as advertised.

Come to think of it, maybe that is why Tesla avoids advertising. That way all the false advertising consumer protections don't kick in?

I feel the same way, my AP1 rocks

 

[bro1999]

Does anyone else find Tesla' statement on the OTA AEB update as hypocritical?

“During that process, Automatic Emergency Braking will temporarily be inactive and will instead be in shadow mode, which means it will register how the feature would perform if it were activated, without taking any action. This temporary calibration period is standard Tesla protocol and is done out of an abundance of caution.”

If Tesla was really interested in doing things out of "an abundance of caution", wouldn't they have delayed the release of these AP2.5 cars with AEB until after they were satisfied AEB worked satisfactorily? You know, "out of an abudance of caution"?

Tesla Turns off Automatic Emergency Braking in Some Newer Models

 

[Ross9733]

Does anyone else find Tesla' statement on the OTA AEB update as hypocritical?

“During that process, Automatic Emergency Braking will temporarily be inactive and will instead be in shadow mode, which means it will register how the feature would perform if it were activated, without taking any action. This temporary calibration period is standard Tesla protocol and is done out of an abundance of caution.”

If Tesla was really interested in doing things out of "an abundance of caution", wouldn't they have delayed the release of these AP2.5 cars with AEB until after they were satisfied AEB worked satisfactorily? You know, "out of an abudance of caution"?

Tesla Turns off Automatic Emergency Braking in Some Newer Models

Yeah and then you would be screaming that you missed out on aph 2.5!!

 

[alcibiades]

Yeah and then you would be screaming that you missed out on aph 2.5!!

Yeah, and instead of making that post you would be walking the streets screaming about your poopy pants and your mommy! Oh my gosh, imagining what other people you don't know would do in situations that aren't real is super fun!

In other news, it is still not unreasonable to prefer Tesla validate safety features before rushing out new hardware. This hardware change was not motivated by something like the MobileEye breakup: which is used as the excuse for the amateurish HW1 to HW2 change.

 

[u00mem9]

My P100DL was built without enough testing and has a defective design causing poor roll-over strength.

What's the roll-over issue?

 

[PJFW8]

Uh this isn't a first year car? Why are you saying the Model S is a first year car when it's been around since 2012? And the AP system has at least 3 years under it's belt at this point.

And please please PLEASE stop telling people to not buy a Tesla because they disagree with certain business and safety practices of the company. I LOVE Tesla. Seriously, read that line again. I want them to do so well that every other company has to drop their pants and beg Tesla to take them under their wings.

That Is not my point. Tesla is years head of the pack in uncharted territory. I agree with you that they have a lot to learn about automotive business practices. You clearly know what you are talking about. Many forum visitors misread you as calling the car a prototype and we are test crash dummies. AP2 and now 2.5 rollout are very troubling. Nevetheless, Tesla makes great vehicles. And I am a fanboy.

 

[pjoseph]

i overreached on lawyers. Have a few good friends in that profession. My point is that bleeding edge tech & lawsuits don't mix very well.

 

[dhanson865]

You are now changing the argument. First you are saying that even if EAB never worked (as in a 2012 MS), you'd still be thrilled. Now you're saying a temporary outage is ok because eventually you'd get it. All your arguments are hypothetical of course - you really cannot tell how you'd feel about it until you pay lots of money for something, then it gets disabled or never works as promised in the first place. I am still waiting for my 691hp, Summon AP1 meeting me at the 90deg curve, and auto-wipers on AP2 car. You know, it doesn't have to be free, I'd settle if Tesla simply extended bumper to bumper warranty until they deliver 100% of what they promised.

I'm not changing my argument at all. I'm describing the situation as it is.

The crash safety of a Tesla is leaps and bounds better than my Toyota or Nissan. In that comparison the safety of the car is about the integrity of the passenger compartment, stiffness of the frame some places and crumple zone in others. Nothing I say before or after that changes the physical integrity of the Tesla Model S or X.

I did mention that AEB is out on some cars for a limited time. That is also a fact. It doesn't replace the prior observation, it just adds to it.

You mention the cost/price factor and say that would change my opinion. It would definitely change my attitude and overall view of the company. The tone of my posts would be different. But that wouldn't make the physical integrity of the car change nor would it change the dates that AEB works or doesn't work.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong to complain, I'm not saying anyone is wrong to say it's an issue. I'm just saying consider the big picture. You have every right to say whatever you want about it without any need to prove me wrong.

 

[oktane]

What's the roll-over issue?

When they installed the larger packs they failed to realize that adding so much extra weight to the bottom of the car would necessitate strengthening the roof and pillars. Oops. A first year mechanical engineering student could have told you that.

This led to the IIHS giving poorer ratings to the P100D compared to the smaller pack cars.

 

[alcibiades]

I'm not changing my argument at all. I'm describing the situation as it is.

The crash safety of a Tesla is leaps and bounds better than my Toyota or Nissan. In that comparison the safety of the car is about the integrity of the passenger compartment, stiffness of the frame some places and crumple zone in others. Nothing I say before or after that changes the physical integrity of the Tesla Model S or X.

I did mention that AEB is out on some cars for a limited time. That is also a fact. It doesn't replace the prior observation, it just adds to it.

You mention the cost/price factor and say that would change my opinion. It would definitely change my attitude and overall view of the company. The tone of my posts would be different. But that wouldn't make the physical integrity of the car change nor would it change the dates that AEB works or doesn't work.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong to complain, I'm not saying anyone is wrong to say it's an issue. I'm just saying consider the big picture. You have every right to say whatever you want about it without any need to prove me wrong.

The big picture looks different when you're buying and driving the car versus when you're a stockholder who doesn't own one.

For example, I have a loaner which is a new car. I have absolutely no idea if I have AEB. When I ordered my own car, I was told it had AEB. But it didn't for 6 months of ownership. That I didn't get in an accident that killed my family matters to me because I'm alive. That I didn't get in an accident that killed my family matters to you because TSLA.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

What are you talking about? Customers picking up their cars this week are the first batch of 2.5 and have never had this feature activated. It wasn't activated at delivery, then later de-activated.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. The web site and owner's manual both reference this feature. Again, please name a single vehicle manufacturer who validates a feature AFTER it has been delivered to customers? You don't validate AFTER you ship a safety feature, putting your customers lives at risk, you do it BEFORE and after tons of testing.

But of course, as we all know, Tesla loves to use its owners as beta testers because it's A LOT CHEAPER at the end of the day. What if someone dies? Well, no big deal... insurance will handle that. Why do you continue to advocate against your own best interests as a Tesla customer?

Guys, there's PLENTY of things on the list to be upset about with regards to the AP2+ roll-out. This is number 100 on a list of 100.

I guess the point is that the list keeps getting longer, not shorter...

Tesla is universally acknowledged to be the safest car in the world. If you are a regular on the site you would know that. The addition of AEB takes it from fabulous to spectacular not dangerous to safe. To those who don't like being called early adopters, you are driving the only long range car in the world. The only car with summoning and first with "autopilot". This is also the fastest car in the world and embarrasses supercars. It is from those who can land rockets on their taiI. I absolutely agree that Tesla needs to be far more open and cautious. but this is still the safest vehicle on the road by far. An example is the side impact crash photo comparing Volvo and model three.

What SpaceX does with its rockets has nothing to do with Tesla's vehicles. The only common thread is the CEO. Suggest you replace idolatry with some common sense.

Provide a better product and you upset the consumer - despite the product improvement - a benefit to the consumer!! It's really mind blowing.

How is it better if you haven't properly tested it and then have to disable features because you didn't properly test it? THAT is mind blowing, my friend.

I'm going to imagine you quoted me on accident, since we are saying the same thing? I think it's bizarre that people are arguing against the idea that Tesla should've first validated. It's like they're from... MARS.

I quoted the person I was replying to, yours was part of his reply to me. I fixed it.