Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla Unveils New Tesla Brand Solar Inverter

MCNE

Member
Mar 12, 2021
173
33
Texas
As long as the Tesla kW rating is the same or less than the SE kW rating the utility has no reason to care. They both meet the same UL1741 standards.
Apparently not in Texas. They should have made the request for change immediately. Those rules are in place for a reason, that's why they need permission in the first place. Plus they went from 1 device to two and the KWs were higher slightly with the split. Like I said, bad business.
 

wjgjr

Active Member
May 11, 2020
1,305
1,037
Silver Spring, MD
Apparently not in Texas. They should have made the request for change immediately. Those rules are in place for a reason, that's why they need permission in the first place. Plus they went from 1 device to two and the KWs were higher slightly with the split. Like I said, bad business.
Yeah - I think the point here should not be a debate over how AHJs should operate in an ideal world, but in how they work in the real world. And Tesla should know well enough that most need specific equipment listed with the permits and the permits updated for any changes. We had a somewhat similar issue a year ago with Tesla not reflecting all of the changes with updated permits, which created a delay during the PTO process. What it seems like to me is that once they file the initial permits, nobody at Tesla thinks about them again until it is time for inspection/approval. So any changes you or Tesla make after the permits get filed are not acted on until late enough in the process that it can cause delays (depending on the AHJ.)
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
8,296
10,969
United States
Yeah - I think the point here should not be a debate over how AHJs should operate in an ideal world, but in how they work in the real world. And Tesla should know well enough that most need specific equipment listed with the permits and the permits updated for any changes. We had a somewhat similar issue a year ago with Tesla not reflecting all of the changes with updated permits, which created a delay during the PTO process. What it seems like to me is that once they file the initial permits, nobody at Tesla thinks about them again until it is time for inspection/approval. So any changes you or Tesla make after the permits get filed are not acted on until late enough in the process that it can cause delays (depending on the AHJ.)

It's a little like having to put whether you're using 'Southwire' or 'Titan' #10 THHN wire. Is it #10? Are you using THHN that's UL1063? Ok... then why should anyone care whether it's Southwire or Titan? Should they ask so they can 'crosscheck'? Or streamline the process and just ask whether it meets the required standards?

IMHO there's more value to having flexibility than waiting weeks to get the exact right thing you said you would use even though there's no tangible difference to using something else just as good that's available.
 

wjgjr

Active Member
May 11, 2020
1,305
1,037
Silver Spring, MD
It's a little like having to put whether you're using 'Southwire' or 'Titan' #10 THHN wire. Is it #10? Are you using THHN that's UL1063? Ok... then why should anyone care whether it's Southwire or Titan? Should they ask so they can 'crosscheck'? Or streamline the process and just ask whether it meets the required standards?

IMHO there's more value to having flexibility than waiting weeks to get the exact right thing you said you would use even though there's no tangible difference to using something else just as good that's available.
I'm not disagreeing with you. My point is that the rules are the rules, and as long as they are, Tesla needs to be prepared to comply. And these are common, well-known rules, so there really isn't an excuse for Tesla to keep forgetting about them.

Long-term, it would be great for solar adoption to streamline a lot of these approvals - I don't think you will find many people here who were disappointed that the AHJs had too little involvement in their projects - but while Tesla is hopefully working on that, they still have to follow the existing processes.
 

MCNE

Member
Mar 12, 2021
173
33
Texas
Yeah - I think the point here should not be a debate over how AHJs should operate in an ideal world, but in how they work in the real world. And Tesla should know well enough that most need specific equipment listed with the permits and the permits updated for any changes. We had a somewhat similar issue a year ago with Tesla not reflecting all of the changes with updated permits, which created a delay during the PTO process. What it seems like to me is that once they file the initial permits, nobody at Tesla thinks about them again until it is time for inspection/approval. So any changes you or Tesla make after the permits get filed are not acted on until late enough in the process that it can cause delays (depending on the AHJ.)
Thanks, appreciate the thoughts for sure. No debate I'm living this mess and Tesla's project execution in my case is flawed and needs help.
 

aswami

Member
Feb 12, 2021
82
75
Phoenix
What it seems like to me is that once they file the initial permits, nobody at Tesla thinks about them again until it is time for inspection/approval. So any changes you or Tesla make after the permits get filed are not acted on until late enough in the process that it can cause delays (depending on the AHJ.)
I can understand it from the project management perspective. Between initial permitting and final install, including during the install itself, there can be many small changes that happen in design. If they are the kind of changes that do not need mandatory advance approval, it makes sense to batch them all together and submit for approval in one shot after the install. If you submit every small change for approval, not only is that more time and effort for everyone involved, there is a chance you would submit a new change, even before previous submissions are approved!

In my own case, replacing the Delta inverter with Tesla inverter was the only change. The revised design was submitted for utility approval after install. It took just a couple of days for the utility to approve the revised design.
 

BGbreeder

Member
Jun 19, 2020
368
229
Bay Area
I think that you are right to be annoyed/upset. Tesla has not done you any favors with the AHJ.

It is still bad practice to install something different than the plans approved. Everyone runs the risk of an inspector saying "that's not what the plans say, remove it."

We all have different tolerances for, and perceptions of, risk. I am not saying it isn't understandable about why someone might want to batch a bunch of modifications, but that isn't a risk free procedure.

I know of a house that had three different sets of plans; one for the historic commission, one for the local AHJ, and one that they were actually building from. They were using cash to keep the inspectors happy, and it was going "smoothly" until a neighbor noticed a discrepancy. Jail time and a demolished house were some of the adverse events.

YMMV...
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
8,296
10,969
United States
They were using cash to keep the inspectors happy, and it was going "smoothly" until a neighbor noticed a discrepancy. Jail time and a demolished house were some of the adverse events.

YMMV...

That's just silly. We need to stop being a silly people. Caring about things that don't make a tangible difference is just silly. Maybe we need to have 'Why does this matter Mondays' to start burning red tape. Why does this matter? Don't know? Ok... it's gone... next. :)

(moderator note: removed video so that I didnt need to move the entire post)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

willow_hiller

Active Member
Apr 3, 2019
3,210
15,830
Maryland
First indication I've read of greater integration between Tesla Inverter and Powerwall: https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSolar/comments/mblgll
A user on Reddit noted that when they were disconnected from the grid and their Powerwall approached 98% full, solar production from the inverter was ramped down to roughly match the home consumption load. This doesn't presently happen with SolarEdge/Delta inverters, does it? It's my understanding that instead of ramping solar production down, the current Powerwall frequency modulation simply shuts off the solar inverter, right?
 

wjgjr

Active Member
May 11, 2020
1,305
1,037
Silver Spring, MD
A user on Reddit noted that when they were disconnected from the grid and their Powerwall approached 98% full, solar production from the inverter was ramped down to roughly match the home consumption load. This doesn't presently happen with SolarEdge/Delta inverters, does it? It's my understanding that instead of ramping solar production down, the current Powerwall frequency modulation simply shuts off the solar inverter, right?

Yes, that is the behavior I would currently expect from a Tesla system with SolaEdge or Delta. It is a nice step forward if it has this communication, though I would guess that even if this report is accurate, the inverter will still raise the frequency if the efforts to balance the solar to the load fail - so this new feature would be in addition to the frequency-based shutoff.

While a nice feature, I guess an interesting question is how much benefit it provides - the biggest thing for a user would be that the battery never drops much below 98% versus the frequency-based shutoff, where the battery might dip to the mid or low 90's before solar re-starts, so it potentially squeezes just a bit more solar out of the day heading into the night. Otherwise, I guess it would be a question of whether one process is somehow harder on the equipment.
 

willow_hiller

Active Member
Apr 3, 2019
3,210
15,830
Maryland
While a nice feature, I guess an interesting question is how much benefit it provides

Yeah, I'm wondering what the practical implications are. I know in the event of a grid outage, the Powerwall and backed-up loads are isolated from the grid to prevent backfeeding. Are non-backed-up loads on the grid-side of that isolation? Or if the inverter-output-to-home-load modulation is done well enough, could you run non-backed-up loads directly from the inverter, with the Powerwall acting as a buffer in the event of over-production?

Or it could also potentially be useful for high-draw backed-up loads during a sunny day. If your Powerwall is near full and you need to run a 5 kW load, it could save cycles on the Powerwall by modulating the inverter output down to 5 kW and running the load straight off solar.
 

bozer

Member
Jul 13, 2020
101
41
NJ
Tesla is finishing my roof this week. There's like one day left tops. Does anyone know how long I can expect PTO to take, in New Jersey? Should I be harassing my PM to speed it up? Staring at these two glowing power walls in my garage and not being able to do anything is killing me. I just want to mess around in the app but it shows everything is disconnected. First world problems...
 
  • Funny
Reactions: cobra

mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
13,315
40,742
Michigan
Yeah, I'm wondering what the practical implications are. I know in the event of a grid outage, the Powerwall and backed-up loads are isolated from the grid to prevent backfeeding. Are non-backed-up loads on the grid-side of that isolation? Or if the inverter-output-to-home-load modulation is done well enough, could you run non-backed-up loads directly from the inverter, with the Powerwall acting as a buffer in the event of over-production?

Or it could also potentially be useful for high-draw backed-up loads during a sunny day. If your Powerwall is near full and you need to run a 5 kW load, it could save cycles on the Powerwall by modulating the inverter output down to 5 kW and running the load straight off solar.
Non-backed up loads must be on the grid side of the isolation switch.

This communication allows sloar to take up as much load as posssible while keeping the Powerwall full.
With this: the powewall can sit fully charged, the house frequency stays at 60Hz (keeping UPSs and such happy), and when the load picks up, the inverter can be commanded to pick it up. The Powerwall only needs to handle net (load-solar) loads, load ramp up, and solar ramp down over production. Less cycles on the PW is better for it.

Versus: PW curtailing production while they are at high SOC, even if that means they are discharging (I think that is how it works now).
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: willow_hiller

robmich

Member
Feb 20, 2020
37
22
Princeton, TX
Received PTO 2 weeks ago on my 12.24 system, 36 panels due south, 12 panels due east and 2 Tesla inverters. So far it has done very well The inverters have not had any drops or resets that I have seen. On a sunny day, I am seeing a nice full curve in the Tesla app and in Sense. The best I have seen so far is 11.1, which I think is pretty good for March.

I have noticed that the water pump in the larger inverter gets a bit loud and gurgles, so I am wondering if it is short on fluid. I will have to watch that. The radiator fan does come on during peak time, but that is expected. I have not yet figured how to access the inverters remotely for real-time production figures. I have only been in the provisioning screen.

I have PW's on the way and it will be interesting how they interact.


1616864363628.png
 
Last edited:

MCNE

Member
Mar 12, 2021
173
33
Texas
I just had my installer call me. He told me that the solar production meter needs to be in place for me to test my system and also to see my Tesla inverter turn on. I am guessing that some installers leave the wiring or the "continuity bar" in the production meter slot intact so that power will flow even without the meter. That is what enables some of us to "test" the system even without the production meter being there. But other installers leave the production meter slot open so that no power will flow through it without an actual meter being installed. In this case, we cannot "test" the system nor can we see the inverter turn on until the utility installs the Production meter and configures it to work. I am not sure how I feel about this because the utility could shut me off from my own solar production by simply turning off their Production meter!
This week I bought a meter jumper to provide continuity at the production meter so I can see what's going on. I wont leave it connected long but it did allow me to see a few things today. I was able to confirm the following as I work issues with Tesla and my utility for PTO.

1. WiFi was in fact setup but they connected to two different routers (fixed).
2. The Tesla App does now work and shows production. Still looking at the output but somewhat of a cloudy day.
3. The Neurio device is not working but the tech told me that they couldn't figure out why. Post PTO follow-up needed.
4. Validated that all 5 strings were active (needed to login into each inverter).
5. Logging into the Tesla inverter allowed me to see voltage and amps per string real time.
6. Ethernet and cellular were disable and I could not enable either. I want the hardwire enabled if possible so another follow-up.

Obviously this isn't something I should have needed to do if Tesla would have given me more information post install or test. Utilizing the jumper can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.
 

robmich

Member
Feb 20, 2020
37
22
Princeton, TX
This week I bought a meter jumper to provide continuity at the production meter so I can see what's going on. I wont leave it connected long but it did allow me to see a few things today. I was able to confirm the following as I work issues with Tesla and my utility for PTO.

1. WiFi was in fact setup but they connected to two different routers (fixed).
2. The Tesla App does now work and shows production. Still looking at the output but somewhat of a cloudy day.
3. The Neurio device is not working but the tech told me that they couldn't figure out why. Post PTO follow-up needed.g-in
4. Validated that all 5 strings were active (needed to login into each inverter).
5. Logging into the Tesla inverter allowed me to see voltage and amps per string real time.
6. Ethernet and cellular were disable and I could not enable either. I want the hardwire enabled if possible so another follow-up.

Obviously this isn't something I should have needed to do if Tesla would have given me more information post install or test. Utilizing the jumper can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.
Did you just log in via the provisioning UI (reset, connect to inverter wifi) or did you find another UI?
 

MCNE

Member
Mar 12, 2021
173
33
Texas
Its the setup interface for sure. I pulled the information directly from the units to attach to the WiFi with Password.
 

robmich

Member
Feb 20, 2020
37
22
Princeton, TX
Its the setup interface for sure. I pulled the information directly from the units to attach to the WiFi with Password.
OK, was hoping you found another interface where I did not have to reset just to access. I know Tesla accessed them remotely after I called them with my PTO info as they told me they looked and I forgot to ask them how....
 

MCNE

Member
Mar 12, 2021
173
33
Texas
OK, was hoping you found another interface where I did not have to reset just to access. I know Tesla accessed them remotely after I called them with my PTO info as they told me they looked and I forgot to ask them how....
I didn't try to access it via its IP (my router) but now I will. It was good information to look at before needing to call them but that resetting is a pain.
 

daveh85

Member
Aug 6, 2020
34
54
Cohasset, MA
We are having three of the larger inverters installed right now. Below is a picture of the MCI that gets installed for every 3 panels (has to be at the start of a string). This is how they get rapid shutdown.
 

Attachments

  • 1DC59B61-A21C-4F51-AB2A-65D53E7B4A07.jpeg
    1DC59B61-A21C-4F51-AB2A-65D53E7B4A07.jpeg
    444.6 KB · Views: 31

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top