Apparently not in Texas. They should have made the request for change immediately. Those rules are in place for a reason, that's why they need permission in the first place. Plus they went from 1 device to two and the KWs were higher slightly with the split. Like I said, bad business.
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Tesla Unveils New Tesla Brand Solar Inverter
- Thread starter willow_hiller
- Start date
Yeah - I think the point here should not be a debate over how AHJs should operate in an ideal world, but in how they work in the real world. And Tesla should know well enough that most need specific equipment listed with the permits and the permits updated for any changes. We had a somewhat similar issue a year ago with Tesla not reflecting all of the changes with updated permits, which created a delay during the PTO process. What it seems like to me is that once they file the initial permits, nobody at Tesla thinks about them again until it is time for inspection/approval. So any changes you or Tesla make after the permits get filed are not acted on until late enough in the process that it can cause delays (depending on the AHJ.)
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
It's a little like having to put whether you're using 'Southwire' or 'Titan' #10 THHN wire. Is it #10? Are you using THHN that's UL1063? Ok... then why should anyone care whether it's Southwire or Titan? Should they ask so they can 'crosscheck'? Or streamline the process and just ask whether it meets the required standards?
IMHO there's more value to having flexibility than waiting weeks to get the exact right thing you said you would use even though there's no tangible difference to using something else just as good that's available.
I'm not disagreeing with you. My point is that the rules are the rules, and as long as they are, Tesla needs to be prepared to comply. And these are common, well-known rules, so there really isn't an excuse for Tesla to keep forgetting about them.
Long-term, it would be great for solar adoption to streamline a lot of these approvals - I don't think you will find many people here who were disappointed that the AHJs had too little involvement in their projects - but while Tesla is hopefully working on that, they still have to follow the existing processes.
I can understand it from the project management perspective. Between initial permitting and final install, including during the install itself, there can be many small changes that happen in design. If they are the kind of changes that do not need mandatory advance approval, it makes sense to batch them all together and submit for approval in one shot after the install. If you submit every small change for approval, not only is that more time and effort for everyone involved, there is a chance you would submit a new change, even before previous submissions are approved!
In my own case, replacing the Delta inverter with Tesla inverter was the only change. The revised design was submitted for utility approval after install. It took just a couple of days for the utility to approve the revised design.
I think that you are right to be annoyed/upset. Tesla has not done you any favors with the AHJ.
It is still bad practice to install something different than the plans approved. Everyone runs the risk of an inspector saying "that's not what the plans say, remove it."
We all have different tolerances for, and perceptions of, risk. I am not saying it isn't understandable about why someone might want to batch a bunch of modifications, but that isn't a risk free procedure.
I know of a house that had three different sets of plans; one for the historic commission, one for the local AHJ, and one that they were actually building from. They were using cash to keep the inspectors happy, and it was going "smoothly" until a neighbor noticed a discrepancy. Jail time and a demolished house were some of the adverse events.
YMMV...
It is still bad practice to install something different than the plans approved. Everyone runs the risk of an inspector saying "that's not what the plans say, remove it."
We all have different tolerances for, and perceptions of, risk. I am not saying it isn't understandable about why someone might want to batch a bunch of modifications, but that isn't a risk free procedure.
I know of a house that had three different sets of plans; one for the historic commission, one for the local AHJ, and one that they were actually building from. They were using cash to keep the inspectors happy, and it was going "smoothly" until a neighbor noticed a discrepancy. Jail time and a demolished house were some of the adverse events.
YMMV...
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
That's just silly. We need to stop being a silly people. Caring about things that don't make a tangible difference is just silly. Maybe we need to have 'Why does this matter Mondays' to start burning red tape. Why does this matter? Don't know? Ok... it's gone... next.
(moderator note: removed video so that I didnt need to move the entire post)
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First indication I've read of greater integration between Tesla Inverter and Powerwall:
A user on Reddit noted that when they were disconnected from the grid and their Powerwall approached 98% full, solar production from the inverter was ramped down to roughly match the home consumption load. This doesn't presently happen with SolarEdge/Delta inverters, does it? It's my understanding that instead of ramping solar production down, the current Powerwall frequency modulation simply shuts off the solar inverter, right?
A user on Reddit noted that when they were disconnected from the grid and their Powerwall approached 98% full, solar production from the inverter was ramped down to roughly match the home consumption load. This doesn't presently happen with SolarEdge/Delta inverters, does it? It's my understanding that instead of ramping solar production down, the current Powerwall frequency modulation simply shuts off the solar inverter, right?
Yes, that is the behavior I would currently expect from a Tesla system with SolaEdge or Delta. It is a nice step forward if it has this communication, though I would guess that even if this report is accurate, the inverter will still raise the frequency if the efforts to balance the solar to the load fail - so this new feature would be in addition to the frequency-based shutoff.
While a nice feature, I guess an interesting question is how much benefit it provides - the biggest thing for a user would be that the battery never drops much below 98% versus the frequency-based shutoff, where the battery might dip to the mid or low 90's before solar re-starts, so it potentially squeezes just a bit more solar out of the day heading into the night. Otherwise, I guess it would be a question of whether one process is somehow harder on the equipment.
Yeah, I'm wondering what the practical implications are. I know in the event of a grid outage, the Powerwall and backed-up loads are isolated from the grid to prevent backfeeding. Are non-backed-up loads on the grid-side of that isolation? Or if the inverter-output-to-home-load modulation is done well enough, could you run non-backed-up loads directly from the inverter, with the Powerwall acting as a buffer in the event of over-production?
Or it could also potentially be useful for high-draw backed-up loads during a sunny day. If your Powerwall is near full and you need to run a 5 kW load, it could save cycles on the Powerwall by modulating the inverter output down to 5 kW and running the load straight off solar.
Tesla is finishing my roof this week. There's like one day left tops. Does anyone know how long I can expect PTO to take, in New Jersey? Should I be harassing my PM to speed it up? Staring at these two glowing power walls in my garage and not being able to do anything is killing me. I just want to mess around in the app but it shows everything is disconnected. First world problems...
Non-backed up loads must be on the grid side of the isolation switch.
This communication allows sloar to take up as much load as posssible while keeping the Powerwall full.
With this: the powewall can sit fully charged, the house frequency stays at 60Hz (keeping UPSs and such happy), and when the load picks up, the inverter can be commanded to pick it up. The Powerwall only needs to handle net (load-solar) loads, load ramp up, and solar ramp down over production. Less cycles on the PW is better for it.
Versus: PW curtailing production while they are at high SOC, even if that means they are discharging (I think that is how it works now).
Received PTO 2 weeks ago on my 12.24 system, 36 panels due south, 12 panels due east and 2 Tesla inverters. So far it has done very well The inverters have not had any drops or resets that I have seen. On a sunny day, I am seeing a nice full curve in the Tesla app and in Sense. The best I have seen so far is 11.1, which I think is pretty good for March.
I have noticed that the water pump in the larger inverter gets a bit loud and gurgles, so I am wondering if it is short on fluid. I will have to watch that. The radiator fan does come on during peak time, but that is expected. I have not yet figured how to access the inverters remotely for real-time production figures. I have only been in the provisioning screen.
I have PW's on the way and it will be interesting how they interact.
I have noticed that the water pump in the larger inverter gets a bit loud and gurgles, so I am wondering if it is short on fluid. I will have to watch that. The radiator fan does come on during peak time, but that is expected. I have not yet figured how to access the inverters remotely for real-time production figures. I have only been in the provisioning screen.
I have PW's on the way and it will be interesting how they interact.
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This week I bought a meter jumper to provide continuity at the production meter so I can see what's going on. I wont leave it connected long but it did allow me to see a few things today. I was able to confirm the following as I work issues with Tesla and my utility for PTO.
1. WiFi was in fact setup but they connected to two different routers (fixed).
2. The Tesla App does now work and shows production. Still looking at the output but somewhat of a cloudy day.
3. The Neurio device is not working but the tech told me that they couldn't figure out why. Post PTO follow-up needed.
4. Validated that all 5 strings were active (needed to login into each inverter).
5. Logging into the Tesla inverter allowed me to see voltage and amps per string real time.
6. Ethernet and cellular were disable and I could not enable either. I want the hardwire enabled if possible so another follow-up.
Obviously this isn't something I should have needed to do if Tesla would have given me more information post install or test. Utilizing the jumper can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.
Did you just log in via the provisioning UI (reset, connect to inverter wifi) or did you find another UI?
OK, was hoping you found another interface where I did not have to reset just to access. I know Tesla accessed them remotely after I called them with my PTO info as they told me they looked and I forgot to ask them how....
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