Blog Tesla Unveils Tabless Battery Cell That Boosts Range by 16%

Tesla unveiled Tuesday at its Battery Day event a new 4680 battery cell, a larger form factor that would increase range by 16%.

Tesla said the new cells will have a 5x  increase in energy and a 6x increase in power capacity. The new cell is 46mm by 80mm, featuring a “tabless” design that enables the efficiencies.

Tesla has reduced parts, created a better electrical connection from the battery, and simplified the manufacturing process. The efficiency in the manufacturing process of the new cell is expected to reduce the price per kWh by 14%. Tesla hopes to eventually reduce that price by 50%.

Tesla is currently producing the cells at a facility near its factory in Fremont, Calif.

Musk also raved about efforts to make the battery factory more efficient, driving home the idea that battery production needs to speed up in order for EVs to have a significant impact on climate change. Musk said it will be a “highway” at “max-velocity” once at scale. Still, Tesla’s new homegrown cells are not expected to reach mass production until 2022. 

Musk said it will take a year for the first facility to reach its 10 GWh production capacity.

Musk hinted that the new battery design will lead to savings necessary for Tesla to introduce a $25,000 electric vehicle.

Watch the full presentation here.

 

[Msicario]

I agree with your observation. My comment was attempt to dig at the other poster who was confusing with more power = more range. Rookie mistake. And when they say it with authority, it is even more funny !!

I think your talking about me That’s ok, I’m getting ready to order my first Tesla and are learning all I can.
Thanks for your help. Have a great weekend..

 

[Mrbrock]

Can’t imagine what that 300kWh battery in a Tesla will cost
Why don’t Teslas MY’s in particular come close to delivering the actual advertised range in real driving life? And immediately begin dropping their range, specially after the first year in use?

Please do some Google searching. You are asking some pretty basic questions and there are much better guides and sources for you than a Tesla fan site.

All EVs drop range. Just like your cell phone/laptop battery lose battery life. EPA doesn’t test in real world. They allow manufacturers to test in laboratory setting (warehouse) then apply a correction factor.

 

[Msicario]

Please do some Google searching. You are asking some pretty basic questions and there are much better guides and sources for you than a Tesla fan site.

All EVs drop range. Just like your cell phone/laptop battery lose battery life. EPA doesn’t test in real world. They allow manufacturers to test in laboratory setting (warehouse) then apply a correction factor.

My wife & I just retired, also have an empty nest in SoCal; We ordered a MYP; Does it really matter that much if comes with either the 2170 or the 4680 battery?

We have grandkids in Chandler AZ.. Doesn’t look like we can make a trip from Anaheim in a full charge

 

[Mrbrock]

My wife & I just retired, also have an empty nest in SoCal; We ordered a MYP; Does it really matter that much if comes with either the 2170 or the 4680 battery?

We have grandkids in Chandler AZ.. Doesn’t look like we can make a trip from Anaheim in a full charge

In terms of range, no. Check ABRP. Good trip planner

 

[tangible1]

My wife & I just retired, also have an empty nest in SoCal; We ordered a MYP; Does it really matter that much if comes with either the 2170 or the 4680 battery?

We have grandkids in Chandler AZ.. Doesn’t look like we can make a trip from Anaheim in a full charge

There are plenty of SuperCharger sites along the way, and even the trips I made in an ICE vehicle required a stop or two.

The navigation system will do a good job of managing the trip. Or you can use the A Better Road Planner app if you prefer.

 

[Mrbrock]

My wife & I just retired, also have an empty nest in SoCal; We ordered a MYP; Does it really matter that much if comes with either the 2170 or the 4680 battery?

We have grandkids in Chandler AZ.. Doesn’t look like we can make a trip from Anaheim in a full charge

380 miles, 2 stops, 5:45 driving time (65 mph average), 40 min charge time.

To compare, ABRP still suggest 1 charge stop for same route with Lucid Dream Edition. Even starting at 100%, you would need to add 11% to end trip with 10% remaining which means the 380 mile trip requires 101% of the battery capacity of the lucid vs 165% for MY.

 

[roblab]

I will freely admit to not understanding the computation that shows such an increase in range (the stated increase ought to give a 300 mile range auto another 50 miles or so of range??). My intent is to order our MY in Oct (long story as to why then). I was hoping for a longer range vehicle then is now the case. Not sure that's going to happen.

Rich

I hope people understand that more range is going to cost more dollars. Of course they will say that the new batteries are cheaper, but it will still cost more. But I find that the range I have is sufficient for my needs. Long distance trips might require an extra stop or two, but folks gotta go, and wifey likes to get out of the car and move around a little every now and then.
I know that people think this is what they need, but they will always want more, and more, and more, for less and less and less. Tesla is doing amazing work at giving people way more range than they need for daily needs, giving them the ability to charge overnight in their garage, and supplying them with high power superchargers just about everywhere which is either free or just reflects the price of electricity, NOT the cost of the installation, unlike Ford and GM having to get the government to spring for chargers across the US (which Tesla drivers will also get to help pay for).
I would imagine that range will increase in all Tesla cars, but the OP's desire to have more range in a MY probably won't happen. If he wants more range, I'd recommend a more aerodynamic version, like the 3, or a version with a bigger battery, like the S. The X and the Y are to bulbous to get great mileage, and that's just physics.

 

[tangible1]

I hope people understand that more range is going to cost more dollars. Of course they will say that the new batteries are cheaper, but it will still cost more. But I find that the range I have is sufficient for my needs. Long distance trips might require an extra stop or two, but folks gotta go, and wifey likes to get out of the car and move around a little every now and then.
I know that people think this is what they need, but they will always want more, and more, and more, for less and less and less. Tesla is doing amazing work at giving people way more range than they need for daily needs, giving them the ability to charge overnight in their garage, and supplying them with high power superchargers just about everywhere which is either free or just reflects the price of electricity, NOT the cost of the installation, unlike Ford and GM having to get the government to spring for chargers across the US (which Tesla drivers will also get to help pay for).
I would imagine that range will increase in all Tesla cars, but the OP's desire to have more range in a MY probably won't happen. If he wants more range, I'd recommend a more aerodynamic version, like the 3, or a version with a bigger battery, like the S. The X and the Y are to bulbous to get great mileage, and that's just physics.

You are correct that Tesla won't change range offerings much very soon. Only when competition finally arrives. Give it 18 months or longer.
But people will fantasize because the 4680 battery has been so hyped. Blogs are great for self-interested wishful thinking.

Range anxiety is an emotional response to change.
No amount of logic, facts, or persuasion is going to change what has now been embedded in people's minds.

Porsche just did a PR stunt by driving a Taycan across the US - 2800 miles, and claiming a sub-3 hour net charging time.
No one will relate to this, and the mass market doesn't relate to Porsche except as aspiration.
However, the PR and Marketing staff get to claim they're 'doing something', and the blog clickbait mongers will reap the only rewards - clicks.

 

[Msicario]

380 miles, 2 stops, 5:45 driving time (65 mph average), 40 min charge time.

To compare, ABRP still suggest 1 charge stop for same route with Lucid Dream Edition. Even starting at 100%, you would need to add 11% to end trip with 10% remaining which means the 380 mile trip requires 101% of the battery capacity of the lucid vs 165% for MY.

True accurate calculations; Forgot the $20+ for the Superchargers .
That’s why Im keeping my five year old Prius that still gets about 45MPG.. Get me there in one tank full without a problem at about 75mph.. $40 on gas from CA. $30 from AZ.

 

[Msicario]

380 miles, 2 stops, 5:45 driving time (65 mph average), 40 min charge time.

To compare, ABRP still suggest 1 charge stop for same route with Lucid Dream Edition. Even starting at 100%, you would need to add 11% to end trip with 10% remaining which means the 380 mile trip requires 101% of the battery capacity of the lucid vs 165% for MY.

Forgot the answer to my other question: Does it matter if my MYP comes with the 2170 or the 4680 battery? What would be the difference, other then a better resale value with the new 4680?

 

[tangible1]

Forgot the answer to my other question: Does it matter if my MYP comes with the 2170 or the 4680 battery? What would be the difference, other then a better resale value with the new 4680?

As we've already discussed, there's almost no chance you'll get a 4680 MYP with your VIN being delivered soon.

But there would be little if any range difference between current 2170 and future 4680-based chassis in the MYLR or MYP.
Resale value might be better.
Tesla won't give away range without competition forcing it, so the range would be about the same.
Supposedly the 4680 may charge a little faster. There is little data to support the idea.

The new chassis might get an improved suspension, might not. There's been no discussion from Tesla on the subject.
However, I am aware that Tesla has signed a new vendor contract for suspension components

 

[Msicario]

As we've already discussed, there's almost no chance you'll get a 4680 MYP with your VIN being delivered soon.

But there would be little if any range difference between current 2170 and future 4680-based chassis in the MYLR or MYP.
Resale value might be better.
Tesla won't give away range without competition forcing it, so the range would be about the same.
Supposedly the 4680 may charge a little faster. There is little data to support the idea.

The new chassis might get an improved suspension, might not. There's been no discussion from Tesla on the subject.
However, I am aware that Tesla has signed a new vendor contract for suspension components

Thank you.. Glad I’ve had this conversation with you . Learned a lot.. my delivery date (pick up date in OC) is the end of March..

 

[tangible1]

Thank you.. Glad I’ve had this conversation with you . Learned a lot.. my delivery date (pick up date in OC) is the end of March..

It's a very low probability to get one, but you're at the tipping point of the new v2.0 chassis from Fremont.
Since you've said you've got a VIN already......no. But you can call your Sales Advisor and ask if he can get the configuration for your VIN.

Austin won't be shipping to CA until the Cybertruck makes it's debut, and only the CT will come here.
MY from Austin goes East, North, and Mexico / South America.

We watch both Fremont and Austin routinely for changes in operations.

 

[Msicario]

It's a very low probability to get one, but you're at the tipping point of the new v2.0 chassis from Fremont.
Since you've said you've got a VIN already......no. But you can call your Sales Advisor and ask if he can get the configuration for your VIN.

Austin won't be shipping to CA until the Cybertruck makes it's debut, and only the CT will come here.
MY from Austin goes East, North, and Mexico / South America.

We watch both Fremont and Austin routinely for changes in operations.

Looking forward to it; No Vin number yet.

Oder it on line; Have received few emails from Tesla on possible delivery date but no #.. I guess the longer the better; Either way we’re excited. Setting up 240 now

 

[tangible1]

Looking forward to it; No Vin number yet.

Oder it on line; Have received few emails from Tesla on possible delivery date but no #.. I guess the longer the better; Either way we’re excited. Setting up 240 now

I just re-purposed an unused dryer electrical line. Installed a 14-50 socket in an enclosure on the wall in the garage, ran conduit to the service panel. All of 6 feet.
Hired an electrician to wire it up, for $225, and he supplied the wire and the up-rated breaker. Total cost $300. Works great.
I'll provide you his contact info if you like. He's in HB.

If you haven't gotten a VIN yet (thought you had), then your chances of a new v2.0 chassis are improved, but still marginal if March is delivery.

 

[Mrbrock]

Forgot the answer to my other question: Does it matter if my MYP comes with the 2170 or the 4680 battery? What would be the difference, other then a better resale value with the new 4680?

That question has been answered before by me and others. No change in terms of range and driving feel for 95% of owners. Slight chance of better driving dynamics due to slightly lighter weight. But likely no real change in feel.

And an estimated delivery date via email is worthless without a vin. I know you are used to good customer service but you don’t get that from Tesla. Wait til you get an email that your account has a vin. Or you see it in the app. Not from whoever you have been talking with recently. Then you’ll have 4-5 days to pick a pickup date.

 

[brucet999]

I agree with your observation. My comment was attempt to dig at the other poster who was confusing with more power = more range. Rookie mistake. And when they say it with authority, it is even more funny !!

Yours was the rookie mistake. You have snarkily misconstrued my post. Perhaps I should more accurately have stated it as more power delivered = more range, but the fact remains that the claim for 4680 tabless design is that it loses less energy (kWh) to heat loss, thereby delivering more power (kw) to the motor for a longer time, resulting in more range.

 

[Mrbrock]

Yours was the rookie mistake. You have snarkily misconstrued my post. Perhaps I should more accurately have stated it as more power delivered = more range, but the fact remains that the claim for 4680 tabless design is that it loses less energy (kWh) to heat loss, thereby delivering more power (kw) to the motor for a longer time, resulting in more range.

The problem is batteries don't store power or provide power. Power is the ability to do work. Batteries don’t work. Motors do. You can’t use power to talk about battery capacity. This is a flaw in the original battery day presentation (6x power). To correct your statement, there is less energy loss to heat so more energy is available to the motors to provide power for LONGER (more range). Or you can talk about increasing the flow of energy to get more power but you can do that with any cell. Increase its discharge rate and you get more power for shorter period of time.

 

[timberlights]

So a rookie question for this board: what are prospects for a 400M+ model 3 in the next few years?

 

[tangible1]

So a rookie question for this board: what are prospects for a 400M+ model 3 in the next few years?

18 months to 2 years. depends on what any competition does. (I assume by 400M+ you mean 400mi +)
right now there's really nothing in that category doing much over 250 real world range.

no one is going to be giving away range; all the players coming to market are just going to drive up battery costs.