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Tesla using old time dealer dirty tactics to make money on service

Plood

Plood, not Plaid?
Feb 12, 2022
126
82
Plano, TX
In my brief Spanish was fooled by an $80 labor $0 part quote for a dented door trim, and when I asked about adding a back door at the good price they revealed that they didn’t have the part price yet. Sloppy more than dishonest. (Appallingly sloppy)

Legally, if I accept the contract at their quoted price they should be required to perform.

The real question is why they don’t know what part is needed, or the price? For more than a week?!
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,965
8,892
Seattle area, WA
Never ascribe to malice what can be attributed to incompetence or indifference.
I subscribe to the above theory, HOWEVER, sometimes when you look at a bigger picture, the result changes. Notice in all of the examples you, me, and others have mentioned, all the mistakes benefited Tesla. If the mistakes were truly random, it stands to reason about half of them would benefit customers rather than Tesla, for example for every one of you got charged twice for the same service, there should be at least some people who didn't get charged at all or half or a tenth (decimal point error) for the same service. Since all the "incompetence or indifference induced mistakes" seem to be benefiting Tesla rather than the customer, something is amiss.

Does planned or intentionally tolerated incompetence or indifference constitute malice? Imagine a bank which hires incompetent, error prone bankers and doesn't train them well. At the same time the bank puts systems and procedures in place to catch mistakes which benefit the customer while ignoring mistakes made in the bank's favor. You could argue that each error is in fact caused by incompetence or indifference, however is the overall outcome malice or still just incompetence/indifference? @SoCal Buzz , @ucmndd , what do you think?

Side note, employees adding unwanted services like a $50 tire rotation is very hard to ascribe to incompetence or malice. It smells a lot more like policy.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,965
8,892
Seattle area, WA
I came here to say what @Plood did.

I have seen no indicators of competence or coordination from any service center that leads me to believe they have the sophistication be acting on an order from the Technoking to pad service bills and bait/switch customers.

Rather they’re overworked, suffering from incompetence due to brain drain, and rudderless.
Perhaps that is part of Elon's plan? If this rudderless service results in Tesla making more money from service, then there is no reason to change it and make less money, right? Remember what Elon says, "every penny counts".
 
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Perhaps that is part of Elon's plan? If this rudderless service results in Tesla making more money from service, then there is no reason to change it and make less money, right? Remember what Elon says, "every penny counts".
As I've said at least once here on TMC (and gotten a ton of disagrees), the feedback loop is broken w/Tesla. By most accounts, their service has gone down the tubes from excellent once Model 3's were out there in quantity. Their other goofy stuff like the wiper controls on 3 and beyond, crappy implementation of auto wipers, yoke w/no stalks on the S and X, forced glass roof, etc. are just further evidence of it.

It along w/poor reliability ratings in CR for the S, X and Y + the above and other negative things apparently are not hurting sales given the long waits and people lining up to buy. If it starts to and causes a slowdown in sales, Elon might start to care and focus on it...

Doesn't help that JonMc is gone leaving I guess nobody to escalate to when things get bad.
 

SteelClouds

Member
Supporting Member
Nov 12, 2021
287
436
CA
Correct.. I supplied the filters and the ranger installed them for 25 USD.. I'll it myself next time but I had the car two days for this and wasnt used to the snaptogether mentality of Tesla :D Tire rotation was another 25 USD and done in my driveway. And they torqued to spec and I know, because A: I watched and B: I checked it with my own torque wrench afterwards.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,965
8,892
Seattle area, WA
I've never had any issues like what you describe at any of the service centers I've visited.

Also I'd love to see a pic of the original estimate where it says HEPA filter for less a price than they later told you because honestly I think you missed something. Perhaps they missed something but I don't believe it to be malicious. But the wipers yeah that's weird prob got the lines crossed with a different customer.
Sure. See post #7 above for the pictures of the initial estimate with unwanted stuff, then correct estimate with tire tire rotation and wiper swap removed. The final final invoice is below (note that original quote only included items #1,2,3. The rest was added at final invoice time. I didn't save the new estimate they generated while the car was in the shop and they asked whether I wanted to HEPA filter replacement). Notice in the below that:
  1. They didn't even bother adjusting the price, just tacked on item #6 with the additional charge. Notice item #3 is the original which has HEPA filter replacement explicitly listed in the customer concern (yellow highlight). So, looking at the invoice below, do you think they double charged me for the HEPA filter replacement (items #3 and then item #6)?
  2. Another odd thing they did, they removed the "Test brake fluid" from customer concern in item #3, however still charged $19 for it under item #3 (blue highlight). Then they added a "good will" (free) brake fluid check as item #5. To be clear, I don't have a problem with the fact that they charged for it, as it was what I asked for and it was included in the original estimate, unlike the item #6 which was conveniently left out. It is still interesting how that was invoiced - trying to make customer think they did something for free, or maybe some creative accounting like having tire rotation billed as a part with zero labor?
1648720458219.png


Was it malicious? I think the initial adding of unwanted items is definitely done on purpose, whether policy, or software which automatically adds these to services, but definitely not an accident - so yes, malicious, stereotypical car service. Forgotten 71% increase, perhaps an error, but if those are very rare, they should eat the cost and do the work for the quoted amount, but if this happens a lot (therefore could cost Elon his fortune to eat the costs of these mistakes), then IMO it is malicious to not correct it from happening as it benefits Tesla in an underhanded way (more on that in post #23).

Convinced yet, or do you still think I missed something? If so, what did I miss?
 
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bro1999

Active Member
Apr 26, 2016
2,658
3,411
Maryland
As I've said at least once here on TMC (and gotten a ton of disagrees), the feedback loop is broken w/Tesla. By most accounts, their service has gone down the tubes from excellent once Model 3's were out there in quantity. Their other goofy stuff like the wiper controls on 3 and beyond, crappy implementation of auto wipers, yoke w/no stalks on the S and X, forced glass roof, etc. are just further evidence of it.

It along w/poor reliability ratings in CR for the S, X and Y + the above and other negative things apparently are not hurting sales given the long waits and people lining up to buy. If it starts to and causes a slowdown in sales, Elon might start to care and focus on it...

Doesn't help that JonMc is gone leaving I guess nobody to escalate to when things get bad.
Didn't Elon even say he considers the best service experience as service not being provided (i.e. not needed or done remotely)? So he's basically saying ideally, no Tesla owner should ever have to bring in their car for service. But that's a short-sighted view, as based on just the numbers of vehicles being sold cars WILL have to be brought in for service. I definitely think he views service as a drag on the bottom line, so if there is some "unwritten" policy about padding service visits with "recommended" services, I wouldn't be surprised.
 

SabrToothSqrl

Active Member
Dec 5, 2014
3,974
3,490
PA
I am fairly convinced that it's mostly 12 year olds working at tesla at this point. Between v11, and this.

Last time I had an issue, I kindly took my time to record the issue, upload it to youtube, because you can't attach a video to the app.

the video clearly identified the issue, it's location, and how it occurred.

the 12 year old asked me if it was my video. ffs.
 
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wooter

Nou ik heb niet te klagen over Tesla support
Moderator
May 3, 2017
8,770
8,264
Belgium
I have an MYLR on order with EDD July 29-Sept 19. I read these comments daily and most seem to contain complaints about the cars, the service etc. I would love to hear from the people who are thrilled with their purchases. Thanks
Maybe start a new topic since elaborating how happy someone is with their purchase is offtopic in this topic :)
 
Your story doesnt add up. First, it is law in most states that a quote in writing is required before performing work which you must approve. Then the cost can’t go over 10% of that number and work you agreed to otherwise they need to call you. At least in FL. So there is no bait and switch. There is the usual call later from dealers oh we found an issue. But every service I had with the app of course and they provided a quote of the work order detail.

So are you not in the US and Tesla and you both missed on the work order the request?
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,965
8,892
Seattle area, WA
Your story doesnt add up. First, it is law in most states that a quote in writing is required before performing work which you must approve. Then the cost can’t go over 10% of that number and work you agreed to otherwise they need to call you. At least in FL. So there is no bait and switch. There is the usual call later from dealers oh we found an issue. But every service I had with the app of course and they provided a quote of the work order detail.

So are you not in the US and Tesla and you both missed on the work order the request?
Well, I'm in WA state which happens to be part of the USA. See previous posts in this thread with the quotes provided, and final invoice. Read the complete thread before concluding if details add up or not. Short summary, quote was padded with stuff I didn't want. They took it off after I pointed it out. Once car dropped off, they called to ask whether or not I wanted HEPA filter replacement. I said, "of course, it is clearly shown in my request", they said "well, it was not part of the quoted amount, if you want it changed, you must approve an additional quote or else we leave the old filter in at the old price". See my post #29 above for final invoice where they didn't even bother correcting the original quoted amount (item #3) but instead just added the HEPA filter. The invoice as shown in my post essentially shows they charged twice for the HEPA filter, once in the original quoted work, and once separately.

Could I sue Tesla and win? Perhaps. I might have had to first deny approving the additional quote, not the get the service done, then spend thousands of dollars of lawyers over 2-3 years, after which there is a chance I would get my free HEPA filter replacement as part of the original service. No thanks. I looked into suing Tesla over the 691hp issue which would have been more of a sure thing, since they settled in Europe for $5,000 per owner, but I still would have had to spend more than I would have won and waste years waiting for the outcome. Not worth while, and Tesla knows this. Just to make sure that everyone knows this, they will spend thousands on lawyers fighting a $100 lawsuit, just as a deterrent to anyone wanting to try - Elon's rule.
 
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am_dmd

Member
Jan 29, 2017
367
428
PA
I am owner since 2016 and service has gotten worse ever since. Yes we all are hoping for competition to catch up but this will be my last tesla mostly because of service shenanigans. Here is my recent experience on my MY which is still under warranty. I had a knocking sound from rear and technician test drove with me and confirmed the sound yet I get the BS reason that “no solution exists”. I found out couple other users (one here and another on Facebook) who had similar issue and tesla fixed it so solution does exist. But it’s typical tesla service trying to wiggle their way out to avoid “free” service as car is under warranty. Scheduled another service at a different service center who immediately identified the issue and eventually repaired it. So it took several months and 3 service visits. Instead should been fixed in one visit. Not to mention waste of work hours on my end.
 
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They add rotation on and other things at times, it's happened to me. Service pre 3/Y was incredible after was crap. Add COVID and a nightmare. All the good service people left over time likely from burn out. Remember EVs are low maintenance except for my new seat, new dash, steering wheel, CV joints, half shafts, etc. All on cars with less than 6K miles. My Y delivery is back on TBD for the third time and I hope they deliver before my warranty expires.
 
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All service centers are Tesla owned, same policies, same prices. Yes there are some differences in people, but most good people I got to know over the years who worked there have left.

I did not receive a survey this time (I have in the past), probably not to screw up the survey stats, since most customers who had to pay 171% of the quote for the exact requested work are not likely to give them 9 or 10.

The car is under warranty, still no loaners offered at all.

Tesla service used to be stellar, before Model 3/Y floods, then Elon decided to laser focus of profit and it's been going downhill fast. That was the primary reason I bought 4 brand new Model S between 2013 and 2018, but none since. I used to tell anyone who'd listen to buy a Tesla too, until I spent an hour in the service waiting room listening to other customers' issues in 2019, only for Tesla to tell me yellow screens on a 1 year old Model S is not covered by Tesla. I was actually supposed to test drive a new Model S during the same visit, but canceled it after listening to poor customers dealing with Tesla policies. At least Elon stuck to his stalkless, touch only controls yoke, so I am not even the least tempted, even though I am way overdue for a new car (COVID + Ukraine war is delaying my switch to Porsche - yea some of their dealers will try to pull same *sugar* as Tesla, but with independent dealers you can find ones which don't bullshit you and provide great service with loaners).
You seem to think that Elon is personally writing service procedures and setting pricing.

Pro tip: he’s not.

Also, we’re all very impressed about all of your money and fancy cars, and the fact that a war is a nuisance to you. Kind of a First-World problem, don’t you think?

That SC screwed up. Give them one chance to make things right. If you’re not happy, go to another SC.

If you really still aren’t happy at that point, contact Corporate. But please remember that they are all human beings, not robots.

Life is short. Ask the Ukrainians.
 
They add rotation on and other things at times, it's happened to me. Service pre 3/Y was incredible after was crap. Add COVID and a nightmare. All the good service people left over time likely from burn out. Remember EVs are low maintenance except for my new seat, new dash, steering wheel, CV joints, half shafts, etc. All on cars with less than 6K miles. My Y delivery is back on TBD for the third time and I hope they deliver before my warranty expires.
Apparently, from what I read on this site, new Teslas are either perfect (mine was) or complete sh*t.

Seems hard to believe.
 
I subscribe to the above theory, HOWEVER, sometimes when you look at a bigger picture, the result changes. Notice in all of the examples you, me, and others have mentioned, all the mistakes benefited Tesla. If the mistakes were truly random, it stands to reason about half of them would benefit customers rather than Tesla, for example for every one of you got charged twice for the same service, there should be at least some people who didn't get charged at all or half or a tenth (decimal point error) for the same service. Since all the "incompetence or indifference induced mistakes" seem to be benefiting Tesla rather than the customer, something is amiss.

Does planned or intentionally tolerated incompetence or indifference constitute malice? Imagine a bank which hires incompetent, error prone bankers and doesn't train them well. At the same time the bank puts systems and procedures in place to catch mistakes which benefit the customer while ignoring mistakes made in the bank's favor. You could argue that each error is in fact caused by incompetence or indifference, however is the overall outcome malice or still just incompetence/indifference? @SoCal Buzz , @ucmndd , what do you think?

Side note, employees adding unwanted services like a $50 tire rotation is very hard to ascribe to incompetence or malice. It smells a lot more like policy.
Seriously?

I suggest you move on to another brand.

You’re going to give yourself a heart attack. It’s not worth it.
 

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