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Tesla using old time dealer dirty tactics to make money on service

As I've said at least once here on TMC (and gotten a ton of disagrees), the feedback loop is broken w/Tesla. By most accounts, their service has gone down the tubes from excellent once Model 3's were out there in quantity. Their other goofy stuff like the wiper controls on 3 and beyond, crappy implementation of auto wipers, yoke w/no stalks on the S and X, forced glass roof, etc. are just further evidence of it.

It along w/poor reliability ratings in CR for the S, X and Y + the above and other negative things apparently are not hurting sales given the long waits and people lining up to buy. If it starts to and causes a slowdown in sales, Elon might start to care and focus on it...

Doesn't help that JonMc is gone leaving I guess nobody to escalate to when things get bad.
Ya know, some of you seem to think that Elon personally runs the Service Division.

He does not. He has a whole hierarchy of employees that do.

Sheesh.
 
Didn't Elon even say he considers the best service experience as service not being provided (i.e. not needed or done remotely)? So he's basically saying ideally, no Tesla owner should ever have to bring in their car for service. But that's a short-sighted view, as based on just the numbers of vehicles being sold cars WILL have to be brought in for service. I definitely think he views service as a drag on the bottom line, so if there is some "unwritten" policy about padding service visits with "recommended" services, I wouldn't be surprised.
That’s really sad that you think that.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,961
8,889
Seattle area, WA
Ya know, some of you seem to think that Elon personally runs the Service Division.

He does not. He has a whole hierarchy of employees that do.

Sheesh.
Well, that's the point. He has been saying that he is running service since 2018, when his president of sales and service Jon McNeil left and Elon officially said he will not be replacing Jon because the position is not needed as he (Elon) can handle it just fine. What we see today is the result of 4 years of Service ran by Elon, personally, to whatever degree he believes service needs to be guided, or left to find their own way.
 
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Apparently, from what I read on this site, new Teslas are either perfect (mine was) or complete sh*t.

Seems hard to believe.
I did not say that but many have issues and should never be delivered with clear flays but we know as a fact Tesla values speed and delivery numbers over quality control. They have improved but as long as they want to rush cars out they will. Ever get a survey about the delivery of your car and the experience from Tesla? I have from every other car maker. No way Tesla would ask or care about that, at least not for now.
 
Well, that's the point. He has been saying that he is running service since 2018, when his president of sales and service Jon McNeil left and Elon officially said he will not be replacing Jon because the position is not needed as he (Elon) can handle it just fine. What we see today is the result of 4 years of Service ran by Elon, personally, to whatever degree he believes service needs to be guided, or left to find their own way.
Elon has no clue about customer service. He is an engineer and he does not value this because he does not understand it. Look how horrific PayPal was, bottom of the barrel CS with glass ceilings. Elon care about manufacturing and that’s in his actions, if he cared about CS and service it would be best in class like it used to be. I feel bad for the service people management does not back them up and the culture is not good.
 
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My experience was more pleasant. I took mine in for a squeak that they knew how to fix. While fixing the squeek they took care of several known issues that I was unaware of. They did the bulletin repairs, and charged it to warranty.

Did not get the feeling they were trying to pad the bill, but were interested in providing excellent service.

I believe their computer will look at your vin, age of vehicle and mileage. They will suggest you do the services that are due, when the car is in their shop. Many owners are unaware of services that should be done, like windshield wipers, brake flush, etc. Putting those items in a quote will make the owner aware of scheduled service, and act accordingly.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,961
8,889
Seattle area, WA
My experience was more pleasant. I took mine in for a squeak that they knew how to fix. While fixing the squeek they took care of several known issues that I was unaware of. They did the bulletin repairs, and charged it to warranty.

Did not get the feeling they were trying to pad the bill, but were interested in providing excellent service.

I believe their computer will look at your vin, age of vehicle and mileage. They will suggest you do the services that are due, when the car is in their shop. Many owners are unaware of services that should be done, like windshield wipers, brake flush, etc. Putting those items in a quote will make the owner aware of scheduled service, and act accordingly.
If customer asks for "recommended scheduled service" I see no problems with quoting recommended services. However, if customer is asking for specific things, including additional paid services without asking the customer is dishonest, especially if those services appear as line items of the specific service requested. In my case they not only padded the quote, they didn't even include almost half the cost of what I asked for. It's like if you went to a dentist, asked for a quote for a crown, they gave you a quote for the crown but padded it with teeth cleaning and bleaching, but did not include the actual cost of the crown, only the prep and buildup with a temporary crown. Oh, and they didn't tell you that you will have to pay more for the crown until you're in the chair for the procedure.

As a side note, I'd have no problem if they told me their computer says my car probably needs this and that, what it would cost, and asked whether or not I want the additional services. Elon can't just sneak upsell customers by hiding behind the "app only, no live human to talk to book the appointment" service model he put in place. Then again, perhaps that is his innovation, do what dishonest dealers used to do (sneak in additional services hoping customers don't notice) but automating it so you don't have to rely on cunning abilities of a particular employee?
 
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If customer asks for "recommended scheduled service" I see no problems with quoting recommended services. However, if customer is asking for specific things, including additional paid services without asking the customer is dishonest, especially if those services appear as line items of the specific service requested. In my case they not only padded the quote, they didn't even include almost half the cost of what I asked for. It's like if you went to a dentist, asked for a quote for a crown, they gave you a quote for the crown but padded it with teeth cleaning and bleaching, but did not include the actual cost of the crown, only the prep and buildup with a temporary crown. Oh, and they didn't tell you that you will have to pay more for the crown until you're in the chair for the procedure.

As a side note, I'd have no problem if they told me their computer says my car probably needs this and that, what it would cost, and asked whether or not I want the additional services. Elon can't just sneak upsell customers by hiding behind the "app only, no live human to talk to book the appointment" service model he put in place. Then again, perhaps that is his innovation, do what dishonest dealers used to do (sneak in additional services hoping customers don't notice) but automating it so you don't have to rely on cunning abilities of a particular employee?
Most dealers show you a list of recommended services. I have had Tesla insist certain things were needed to keep my warranty valid which is BS. Never did them and still got warranty. They stoped doing that after complaints. Nothing should ever be added that was not requested. Biggest issue is they don’t want to do work that should be covered under warranty. When they replaced my dash they dropped a nut under it and it rattles on some highways. The wind fix it calling it “normal”. I heard it slide around leaving service and told them. Bottom line is they want to do the bare minimum because unlike dealers they don’t get paid to do the warrant work it’s just an added cost. Tesla does not like to fix their issues particularly design flaws like water in tail lights, defective ball joints, cheap paint issues, dash problems, etc.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,961
8,889
Seattle area, WA
Most dealers show you a list of recommended services. I have had Tesla insist certain things were needed to keep my warranty valid which is BS. Never did them and still got warranty. They stoped doing that after complaints. Nothing should ever be added that was not requested. Biggest issue is they don’t want to do work that should be covered under warranty. When they replaced my dash they dropped a nut under it and it rattles on some highways. The wind fix it calling it “normal”. I heard it slide around leaving service and told them. Bottom line is they want to do the bare minimum because unlike dealers they don’t get paid to do the warrant work it’s just an added cost. Tesla does not like to fix their issues particularly design flaws like water in tail lights, defective ball joints, cheap paint issues, dash problems, etc.
Tesla could also show you a recommended list of items rather than pad the quotes hiding the recommended services as line items of other services. They already have a mechanism for that, they use it for recalls - when scheduling a service, the app shows pending recalls. The app could show recommended services in a similar fashion, let the customer choose to add any recommended services to the requested service. BUT, guaranteed it would result in less service sales, since negative marketing statistically always yields higher take-rates, hence a win for Tesla.

As for not wanting to fix things under warranty, that is the main argument against direct sales/service model. It is a clear conflict of interest. As much as I dislike the dealer model, this conflict of interest and the monopoly on repairing the cars (hence ability to charge higher prices for the service) is what swung me back to prefer the dealer model. The only thing that Tesla model has left in its favor is the ordering experience. Everything after that is same or worse. Ok, they do have the best "fix via OTA" capabilities, but they abuse that capability which turns it from a positive to a negative.
 
Tesla could also show you a recommended list of items rather than pad the quotes hiding the recommended services as line items of other services. They already have a mechanism for that, they use it for recalls - when scheduling a service, the app shows pending recalls. The app could show recommended services in a similar fashion, let the customer choose to add any recommended services to the requested service. BUT, guaranteed it would result in less service sales, since negative marketing statistically always yields higher take-rates, hence a win for Tesla.

As for not wanting to fix things under warranty, that is the main argument against direct sales/service model. It is a clear conflict of interest. As much as I dislike the dealer model, this conflict of interest and the monopoly on repairing the cars (hence ability to charge higher prices for the service) is what swung me back to prefer the dealer model. The only thing that Tesla model has left in its favor is the ordering experience. Everything after that is same or worse. Ok, they do have the best "fix via OTA" capabilities, but they abuse that capability which turns it from a positive to a negative.
All true and they are squeezing harder and harder. If Tesla wants to brag about 30% margins it should not come at the cost of customers and "in spec" which is at times insulting and makes auto dealers look generous.
 
Here's the problem: People are so used to taking their gas cars down to the dealer every 5-10 thousand miles they continue to do the same FOR NO REASON with their electrics. Oh, right, gotta rotate the hepa air filter. And change the oil in the fan motor. Come on. I've had four Teslas, 3 of which were Model Ses, and I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER even thought about taking one of them in for service. Two of them had over a hundred thousand miles on them. Never had any problems with any of them.

Listen, people. If you take your car in for service, even to the Tesla Service Center, they're gonna perform service, whether you need it or not. They'll have you sign a piece of paper delineating what they plan to do and the charges for each service, never mind that YOU DON'T NEED IT. But if you insist, well, all right, I guess we'll take care of you.

Listen, again. YOU DON"T NEED IT. There is nothing on an EV that will go wrong if you don't service it. Maybe I'd get it looked at once every hundred thousand miles or so, but these aren't gas cars. YOU.... DON'T... NEED.... IT.

Now, if you insist on driving a hundred miles to the nearest Service Center, don't say I didn't try to tell you. Once again: YOU DON"T NEED IT. See that car there in my avatar? That's number four. Only 30K on it so far, but NO service. Its brother had 110,000 miles on it, NO SERVICE, and its previous brother had 115,000 miles, no service. Not being a smoker, I never changed the hepa filter, either. Some people just have too much money to spend.
 
Most dealers show you a list of recommended services. I have had Tesla insist certain things were needed to keep my warranty valid which is BS. Never did them and still got warranty. They stoped doing that after complaints. Nothing should ever be added that was not requested. Biggest issue is they don’t want to do work that should be covered under warranty. When they replaced my dash they dropped a nut under it and it rattles on some highways. The wind fix it calling it “normal”. I heard it slide around leaving service and told them. Bottom line is they want to do the bare minimum because unlike dealers they don’t get paid to do the warrant work it’s just an added cost. Tesla does not like to fix their issues particularly design flaws like water in tail lights, defective ball joints, cheap paint issues, dash problems, etc.
I had the same problem: a washer up under the dash that would slide and bump. Finally took it apart and found the culprit. The best solution I've found: Don't take it in for "Service".
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,961
8,889
Seattle area, WA
Here's the problem: People are so used to taking their gas cars down to the dealer every 5-10 thousand miles they continue to do the same FOR NO REASON with their electrics. Oh, right, gotta rotate the hepa air filter. And change the oil in the fan motor. Come on. I've had four Teslas, 3 of which were Model Ses, and I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER even thought about taking one of them in for service. Two of them had over a hundred thousand miles on them. Never had any problems with any of them.

Listen, people. If you take your car in for service, even to the Tesla Service Center, they're gonna perform service, whether you need it or not. They'll have you sign a piece of paper delineating what they plan to do and the charges for each service, never mind that YOU DON'T NEED IT. But if you insist, well, all right, I guess we'll take care of you.

Listen, again. YOU DON"T NEED IT. There is nothing on an EV that will go wrong if you don't service it. Maybe I'd get it looked at once every hundred thousand miles or so, but these aren't gas cars. YOU.... DON'T... NEED.... IT.

Now, if you insist on driving a hundred miles to the nearest Service Center, don't say I didn't try to tell you. Once again: YOU DON"T NEED IT. See that car there in my avatar? That's number four. Only 30K on it so far, but NO service. Its brother had 110,000 miles on it, NO SERVICE, and its previous brother had 115,000 miles, no service. Not being a smoker, I never changed the hepa filter, either. Some people just have too much money to spend.
There are things you can do yourself, but not everyone is comfortable with doing everything at home, plus Tesla will not sell you some parts. Front motor bushing fix for vibration/shudder, would you fix it yourself? Did you change out your own emmc chip? How about door handles? If your car stopped charging (red ring), how would you begin on fixing it yourself? Out of curiosity, have you checked the brake fluid on the 110K miles car and was it still pristine, or did you mostly use regen and never hit the brakes hard, therefore never realized that your max braking power may have been significantly reduced due to brake fluid deterioration and/or moisture absorption, should you ever need to brake hard in an emergency? I'm assuming you changed tires in 110K miles, just at at Tesla service, so you didn't call it service, right?

In any case, your argument of "EV don't need service" is no excuse for service being bad or dishonest. I took my Teslas for their first voluntary services just before they reached 4 years (end of warranty) - mostly to get the car checked out before the warranty ended. That said, the car's have been to service many times before, for things which I would not do myself (keeping in mind that things like changing out the emmc chip, fixing door handles, or noise issues I did myself just fine - that would include cabin/hepa filter change as well except Tesla quoted it inexpensively enough that I figured might as well let them do it when the car is there for checkup anyways, until they pulled the bait and switch, hence this thread). So be happy you got lucky that your cars didn't need Tesla service, or that you have a car shop with access to Tesla parts capable to fix anything which might go wrong with a Tesla - not everyone has that.
 
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